Forty-two percent of independents feel that the Democrats have not gone far enough in challenging Bush on Iraq...
Steve,
Not to mention, the number of newly created Independents who left the Democratic party out of frustration with the current leadership.
Posted by Christopher at June 11, 2007 02:29 PMif the Iraq War is still going on, the Indy's will vote for whomever says they will end it. If neither Party nominates a candidate who promises to end it ( a distinct possiblity), then what? It seems obvious that either the Iraqi's will unite and drive us out (no bets), a massive attack in the Green Zone promps a pullout, or we'll just move along, losing 3-4 GI's a day, for a long time. The Indy's don't wanna take sides, they just wanna gripe. If they can't see what the GOP has done and is willing to do, then they'll just fence-sit and gripe forever, blaming the Dems when it is them, the do-nothing Indys that could make the difference.
Posted by T2 at June 11, 2007 02:46 PMYet the Democratic leadership’s focus since January on fighting a battle for withdrawal they cannot win with their insufficient numbers has cost them support amongst independents:
And why do we think that is?
Posted by snark at June 11, 2007 02:52 PMGee, Representative Nancy Pelosi herself, all alone, could have bottled up any more appropriations bills for the imperial ongoing occupation of Iraq after she was elected Speaker of the House. Tbat would have ended this illegal criminal "war" on the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, however, Miss Pelosi is not a profile in courage, she is a profile in cowardice, like most of the other corporate Democrats in the House and the Senate. This business about "supporting the troops" is just a bunch of crap. What the Bush crime family really means when they said tha,t is that they demand everyone continue to support the illegal imperial oil-nazi occupation of Iraq. We can "support our troops" back home in Kansas, Idaho or Mississippi...
Somehow, political cowardice is not much of a recommendation to elect more Democrats in 2008.
We need a new independent political party that actually represents the people of America, not the greedy corporations and their whores.
Posted by james k. sayre at June 11, 2007 03:09 PMUnfortunately, however, Miss Pelosi is not a profile in courage, she is a profile in cowardice, like most of the other corporate Democrats in the House and the Senate.
Bingo, James. The ugly truth many Dems still can't bring themselves to admit.
Posted by Christopher at June 11, 2007 03:18 PMIt's not Dems vs. Repubs. The vast majority of these clowns cater to big corporate donors and AIPAC. Who gives a dam about Constitutional principals? Certainly not Pelosi.
The real antagonists are corporatists vs. Constitutionalists. Who among those vying for the Presidency in '08 has a consistant record of supporting the Constitution?
Just one....Ron Paul. Forget the wedge issues. They are manipulative tactics to keep the country divided and to allow the continued corporate looting of the Treasury.
Posted by brisa at June 11, 2007 04:09 PMbrisa - Almost a good comment until the end -- Ron Paul is one of those cadre of people that style themselves as "libertarians" - and personally those people are scarier than the GOP. Those people have never seen a corporate regulation or social program that they like -- and they wouldn't do much to cut back on the obscene amount that the US spends on the military, although they wouldn't borrow the funds from China et. all for it, they'd cut Headstart, etc. to get their balanced budget.
Posted by Marie at June 11, 2007 05:08 PM[sigh]
Posted by paradox at June 11, 2007 05:14 PMHuckabee on Tweety today: "I don't think an American family having dinner around their table cares if their president believes in evolution or not."
This one is a real moron, folks. Beware!
Posted by TIKI AL at June 11, 2007 05:39 PMThis one is a real moron, folks. Beware!
TIKI, He lost all that weight through his belief in gawd! Thank the heavens.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 11, 2007 05:42 PMI feel vaguely fraudulent busting on the Dems lately. I changed my D to an I shortly after John F(ucking) Kerry conceded while voters were still lined up voting and votes hadn't been counted.
Rather than use money specifically collected for a transparent count, his camp immediately went into hyperventilating over the database of supporters they amassed for next time. The election wasn't even cold yet and the Dems rolled over giving us an even worse BushCo than the last one.
I changed my registration and told Kerry I would never support a ticket with him on it. Last year I bit my tongue hard to see what the Dry Powder Dems would do with my support to get back both houses of Congress. I did my due diligence and wasn't online much pissin' and moaning about how they let me down.
Well it didn't take long to see that they had no intention of honoring what they claim to represent as they began courting the right wing wackjobbery hard.
It's good to know our lack of interest in each other is mutual, so I can get on with enjoying my smmer and a leisurely '08 without guilt. I don't accept part-ownership of this GOP goatfuck and the Dems can get some Repug whackjob or free range fetus to work their phone banks when the time comes.
I'll be busy till election day and will vote for deserving candidates but not busting my hump. Sorry for the redundancy in my ranting, but I'm just exhaustively fed up with how much I've thrown into this black hole of a useless fucking party. Mostly I feel like a complete idiot for trusting their neverending "next fight's the BIG one!!!!" bullshit. Christ, the hours ...
.
If the Dems at least voted their conscience or for their constituents, they would be respected more than whining about not having enough votes to challenge bu$h'$ veto.
They accomplish nothing when they try and play politics with their vote.
Christ, they have the fucking majority in both houses. They can at least try and vote in unison. The people can see capitulation, and from what I can tell, they don't like it. And who does it come back on, the leaders of both houses.
On a side note, McConnel is playing Reid like a worn out record. When will Harry stand up to ole Mitch and smack him down!
Posted by Seven of Six at June 11, 2007 05:57 PMJust got back from business travel to Phoenix, AZ and I didn't take my lap because terrorists like me get hassled at airports if we have laptops, like: Ooooh, what are you doing with that machine? Who are you contacting? I watched motel hell cable for entertainment in the evenings because in AZ one can't smoke in bars whereas in VA, one can smokem, drink, fornicate and spout liberal thoughts to fellow barflies who aren't Mexican fathers of ten dozen children. Watching FOX, which is allowed when I travel 'cause I ain't footing the cable bill, I got my fill of Paris...and that was about it. Pace's resignation was tossed aside, because breaking crybaby Paris news was more important to the unwashed masses....
I was in Tucson, East Valley craphole working at my deal which pays well but I'll be goddamned if I'll ever go out west again. I paid seven dollars for a pack of cigarettes! We may have mad college killers in Virginia, but by God our smokes are reasonable! When I mentioned to customers that I hailed from the Old Dominion, all I heard was, "Damn, Virginians sure love their guns! How do you put up with so much crime there?"
The West Coast will never match the East Coast. When I returned to Dulles IAD, I was so happy to see so many white, well dressed people!!!
And everybody who wasn't showing their tats or displaying their fat bellies in the 107 degree heat, were Republicans, Bush lovers! Mal was horrified! Or maybe Mal wasn't drunk enough!!!
AZ can dry up for all I care. But I'm sure glad to be back home, until I go off to work again next week to a worse hellhole, Maryland!!!
LC'rs, I hope y'all have a happy fourth of July, because I may be going to drown myself in Canada for another gig by that time.
Posted by Mal Feasance at June 11, 2007 06:01 PMSteve, these numbers of independents you're talking about don't really matter because they include a large segment of the public who don't realize that Nancy Pelosi isn't the Commander in Chief.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 11, 2007 06:03 PMHey Mal! Had we known you were in Arizona, 7 and I would have driven down to Tucson and bribed your Motel 6 maid to put scorpions in your Jenny Jameson "sleep" aid.
Posted by TIKI AL at June 11, 2007 06:34 PM...spout liberal thoughts to fellow barflies who aren't Mexican fathers of ten dozen children.
Are you sure you're a Liberal Mal?
...I was so happy to see so many white, well dressed people!!!
Just like bu$h?
Or maybe Mal wasn't drunk enough!!!
Sounds like you still are Mal.
AZ can dry up for all I care. But I'm sure glad to be back home, until I go off to work again next week to a worse hellhole, Maryland!!!
Glad to hear we can compete with the great state of Maryland.
Really Mal, why didn't you let me know you were going to be in town.
This Hispanic, would have been proud to have gotten your white ass drunk, taken your wallet, left your pants around your ankles in a back ally in south central Phoenix, with a cigarette sticking out of your big pie hole.
We Phoenician know how to show white people from the wrong coast a good time, don't we TIKI?
Posted by Seven of Six at June 11, 2007 06:44 PMSo Biden, Obama, and Dodd did not vote on the Gonzales "confidence vote". Way to support the Democratic pary shitbirds!
You do not have my support for the Presidency!
I guess Hillary voted for it?
But did he LEAD?
Probably just a vote of political expediency, eh?
Al Gore better got into the race fast!
We're runnin' out of candidates who haven't stepped in shit.
Posted by snark at June 11, 2007 06:59 PMHey, I'll bring the rattlesnakes, TIKI and SoS! Show that mofo some "West Coast" hospitality. Fuckwad.
snark, probably not. She probably was political with her vote, being a politician and all. Would you like some of this brie, btw? It goes great with whine.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 11, 2007 07:08 PMAt least she voted!
Posted by Seven of Six at June 11, 2007 07:11 PMAt least she voted!
Wasn't good enough for some last time. ;)
Posted by snark at June 11, 2007 07:46 PMScottsdale is the place for me. I love that 5 and Diner for breakfast down on Indian School Rd. and 101. Sedona rocks so does Globe.
As for Democrats, they lost the presidency when they sent the president that bill without timetables. No back bone in the leadership. They act so Carter like. A bunch of wimps.
Where were Tester and Webb the other day? Voting against the Majority Leader on immigration. Then there's Heath Shuler telling Louisiana's Jefferson to resign for the good of the Congress. No leadership at all in Congress right now. What a lot and the American people have awakened to their mistake last November. I heard all this "...it's Democrats to lose". Yep and they lost it.
HRC's starting to leave the pack again. You're failing in your job to place someone else at the top spot on the ballot. Of course it doesn't help with all the green candidates you've got.
Get use to it folks, President Rudi Guliani.
And a bunch of one term leaders.
Posted by peter at June 11, 2007 08:00 PMI'll say it again:
S*P*I*N*E*L*E*S*S Dems. Oh yah Steve, we need more of 'em in ought-8.
Yet a vote for an Indy is a throw-away, a gesture.
Looky here: Wolfie quit and nothing changed. Rummy quit and nothing changed. Dems surge in 06 elections, nothing changes, same old fucking excuses. Libby gets convicted, nothing changes. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
But he's got----High hopes, high hopes, high apple pie in the sky hopes.
Posted by degustibus at June 11, 2007 08:07 PM"...and that there needs to be more Democrats elected in 2008 to overcome the GOP occupation of Iraq." -(Steve Soto).
-The "GOP" occupation of Iraq? That is laughable.
It is an American occupation of Iraq.
Again politics has little or nothing to do with it.
Had there not been a virulent GOP regime, there would still have been a military occupation somewhere. That is inexorable. These are almost like organic secretions of the American being. They transpire, beneath and beyond American politics, for one reason:
There are no American politics.
There is only demiurge.
Since most of you continue to believe, ludicrously, that 'American politics' can address this, it appears as silly as four year old children playing checkers before the Christmas tree.
You continue to talk about GOP and DEMS locked in a race of consequence?
Posted by Jill Bains at June 11, 2007 08:23 PMYou continue to talk about GOP and DEMS locked in a race of consequence?
My hope is that somehow our great nation can be restored.
Some how the marionette of the MIC, AIPAC and the media must be stopped. Too late?
Posted by Seven of Six at June 11, 2007 08:57 PMYou don't find us in a very optimistic mood, Steve. I'm afraid the democrats in Congress are just going to piss away all their chances over the next few months.
This war is unacceptable. We cannot put up with such a vile war of occupation. There is no moral case to be made for a presidential aspirant of either party who endorses this war, advocates its strategies or apologizes for its horrors. It feels to me like the Democratic Party is slow marching its own base to the edge of a cliff. And it seems to me that votes are wasted on representatives who won't carry out the will of the people.
Posted by Copeland at June 11, 2007 10:19 PMThe best steak in Phoenix is at Durant's on 7th Street and Virginia, and the Mal-adjusted tourist from Virginia didn't even know it.
You ever eat there, 7?
Sounds like an inside the beltway study group is needed to spin this into an alternate reality. WTF do you think would happen when they abandon positions based on something called principal?
Posted by Bill at June 12, 2007 06:11 AMI've said it before, and I'm still saying it: the 2008 election has a good chance of producing a viable third party, if it's the right people. The Dems are blundering badly, and it's only been..what?...six months?. Man, I'm just imagining a party with the motto of "Throw ALL the bums out!". Heehee. And maybe included in the platform would be the legalization of marijuana and hemp production. And I don't even smoke it, but it makes good budget and political sense to me. History will call it The Second American Revolution.
The national Dems dismiss the Minnesota gubernatorial win of Jesse the wrestler at their peril.
Posted by Julie at June 12, 2007 08:20 AMPS, I can't stand Jesse, but I never underestimate the dynamics that led to his win. The Dems shouldn't either.
Posted by Julie at June 12, 2007 08:24 AMYou ever eat there, 7?
Are Hispanic's allowed? Or do we have to stay in the kitchen area?
No, I haven't TIKI but I will put on my list of places to go. Is it pricey?
I became an Independent last year, dumping the Dems forever because...well, they are Dems. Examine the progress from this Congress and you'll understand why I made the change. I think all Democrats would do well to examine their Congressweasels from the perspective of the same standards they are using for the republi-cons.
This Hispanic, would have been proud to have gotten your white ass drunk, taken your wallet, left your pants around your ankles in a back ally in south central Phoenix, with a cigarette sticking out of your big pie hole.
Why the hell does this guy get preferential treatment? After you partied with me I woke up in an orange grove outside of Queen Creek wearing a blonde wig, fishnet stockings, and "Wetbacks ride for free!" written on my butt.
Funny you should mention the kitchen, 7. That's where you enter. You get to see the how they make the food, and they may offer you a job.
It's not as pricey as that treatment you gave to poor phiddy.
Posted by TIKI AL at June 12, 2007 02:41 PMphid loved every minute of it.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 13, 2007 06:41 AM