Have you figured out Jay Rockefeller? I hope he is not as dumb as he appears. I believe the Dems need someone sharper than Rockefeller to chair the Intelligence Committee.
Posted by JohnT at June 22, 2007 10:09 AMyep, it's waaay past time for congress to grow a pair and go after this lawless mass murderer.
he belongs in jail, not running the country from a secure, undisclosed location.
impeach this cocksucker now.
Posted by ran at June 22, 2007 10:38 AMWhat comes next is the dems frame this as Bush vs Cheney. After all Shrub updated and reissued the order in 2003. The Vice President is in open defiance of the President. That's a framing even the MSM can run with.
Posted by Daryl at June 22, 2007 10:50 AM
Time for letter, emails and phone calls to Jay Rockefeller and the same to Congress demanding an independent investigation IMMEDIATELY. They must not drag their feet on this latest revelation about Cheney. We don't have much time to stop this arrogant motherf*cker who sh*ts on the rule of law daily. Cheney is a traitor to everything this Country ever stood for and should be hung.
Posted by Judith at June 22, 2007 10:52 AMGreat post and great questions... The new "Big Dick" branch of Gov't is claiming that it is not bound by executive branch rules/laws and Legislative rules/laws because it is a part of both branches of gov't. That doesn't make much sense because (not that anything this man ever has so no surprise)they are saying that being a member of both branches of gov't excludes it from the rules of both...wtf...wouldn't it be more appropriate that being a member of both branches would then make them bound by the rules of laws of both?
So much for his Unitary Excecutive theories too?
Anyway this is just Big Dick giving the American people and the constitution the "go eff yourself" routine....he's been just sailing along lawbreaking and disregarding rules/oversight since the original 1 vote majority one time only decision that installed him and his puppet Junyah. Now he's got his ScalitoRoberts SCotus in place to back him on his dictator for life form of gov't.
Posted by emal at June 22, 2007 10:57 AMIf he is not part of the exec branch, then did he have the unilateral ability to declassify at will that he has asserted?
This is a fine posting, compiling all the pertinent questions, which go right to the heart of a system of governance of a farcical ludicrousness.
The point here is that even if something could be done, it would not be done.
"Is it not obvious to Senator Rockefeller ☼ and Chairman Reyes that Mr. Gonzales is simply running the clock out on this matter until 2009 and will do nothing in the interim to resolve the matter?" -(steve soto)
What? Come again? If 'the matter' had even happened once,'the matter' has already been resolved. Americans, in a perennial näivéte, should stop taking ourselves so seriously.
And the God of Dark Laughter...just laughs...and laughs.
Posted by Jill Bains at June 22, 2007 11:15 AMAs emal says, so much for the much touted "conservative" theory of the unitary executive---it doesn't even control the office of VP!
That this insane, radically revisionist view of the constitution is allowed to be openly held by Deadeye Dick is yet another sign of complete ab(dick)ation of responsibility by GOoPers for the rule of law and the proper functioning of the constitution. Our system of government has failed.
And the MSM does and says nothing of consequence. One day story.
Posted by euzoius at June 22, 2007 11:22 AMThe Vice President is part of the Executive Branch. Its in the Constitution. The Big Question everyone seems to be missing is why does Dick Cheney need to keep virtually everything he does secret? If or when the truths emerge, I think we'll see the reasons are very frightening. I think we'll see abuse of power, and further I think we'll see that we have been essentially governed by Dick Cheney for two terms, with Bush serving as the mouthpiece and co-conspirator. And I think we'll see lots and lots of illegal and/or unconstitutional activity along the lines of Scootergate. And we'll see lots and lots and lots of money change hands.
Posted by T2 at June 22, 2007 11:23 AMIf the Vice-President isn't part of the Executive Branch of Government, then what is he part of?
I fu*cking tired of this Administration taking all rules of laws and saying none apply to them. Black is white, up is down, right is wrong, evil is good, greed is good. Why are we even having this stupid conversation about Cheney. Tell the MF to turn over the materials Congress has every legal right to request or else.
Posted by Judith at June 22, 2007 11:25 AMAs Wonkette
noted last year, one way Mr. Cheney deals with his paper secrets is by using unsecure local document destruction services.
T2, I would think that all his buddies in Big Oil don't want the world to know how influential they have been on Dick... The VP has the blood of thousands on his hands.
I like Sandy Levinson's solution:
Let me suggest that if there's any plausibility at all to Mr. Rivkin's argument, then he has identified yet another deficiency in our Constitution, for which the most obvious remedy is abolishing an office that for much of our history has been useless (assuming that the office was filled at all, as it has not been for a total of approximately 45 years) and now has emerged as a true menace to the republic, both literally and figuratively.
Yes. Let's charge Cheney for rent and sue him for falsely pretending he's part of the government.
Posted by Mary at June 22, 2007 12:13 PMThe Democrats in Congress, having been made aware of Cheney, are all over it (as this video of Jay Rockefeller Speaking to Rank and File Dems about this matter indicates)
Posted by phidipides at June 22, 2007 12:30 PM"The Vice President is part of the Executive Branch. Its in the Constitution."
Not so.
The only duty given to the Vice President except for sitting in when the President is sick or dead is to preside over the senate.
By statute, the Vice President is a "Member" of Congress. His office is funded out of the Senate.
It looks to me that, under Article 1, Section 5 of the Constitution, the Senate has inherent power to make rules governing the Vice President and has the right to compel his attendance.
The executive power of the US is in the President and no one else. The only power under the Consitution given to the Vice President while the President is serving is to preside over the Senate.
Reid and Palosi should simply bring Cheney under the total control of the Rules of the Senate and shut him up. Chain him in a small office in a corner of the Capital and let him out only to preside, use the bathroom, and take lunch breaks. Compel his attendance and make him sit in the Senate Chamber and preside with only the power to break ties like the Constitution says he should. The Senate has the power, it should use it.
Cheney is not a Fourth Branch, he is a Member of the Legislative Branch subject to the control of the Senate alone!
These guys who claim to be democratic "leaders" should exercise their power and keep him close where he can be watched and ruled, munute by munute!
Oh, for a few leaders with some courage!!!
Posted by at June 22, 2007 12:39 PMThe post at 12:39 was mine.
Posted by Nobody at June 22, 2007 12:40 PMT2 said:
...I think we'll see that we have been essentially governed by Dick Cheney for two terms, with Bush serving as the mouthpiece and co-conspirator....
Is there any doubt at all about this? Or any debate about this? I thought everyone, all sides, agree on this much.
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2007 12:43 PMArticle 2, Sec 1 Executive Branch states "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected.
seems pretty clear to me.
Posted by T2 at June 22, 2007 01:06 PMNothing is really clear.
5 USC § 2106. Member of Congress
"For the purpose of this title, "Member of Congress" means the Vice President, a member of the Senate or the House of Representatives, a Delegate to the House of Representatives, and the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico."
It would seem that Cheney's staff are congressional employees.
5 USC § 2107. Congressional employee
PART III - EMPLOYEES
Subpart A - General Provisions
For the purpose of this title, "Congressional employee" means -
(1) an employee of either House of Congress, of a committee of either House, or of a joint committee of the two Houses;
(2) an elected officer of either House who is not a Member of Congress;
(3) the Legislative Counsel of either House and an employee of his office;
(4) a member of the Capitol Police;
(5) an employee of a Member of Congress if the pay of the employee is paid by the Secretary of the Senate or the Chief Administrative Officer of the House of Representatives;
The Vice President's salary and the salary of his employees are paid by the Secretary of the Senate.
2 USC § 60c-1. Vice President, Senators, officers, and employees paid by Secretary of Senate; payment of salary; advance payment
The compensation of the Vice President, Senators, and officers and employees, whose compensation is disbursed by the Secretary of the Senate,
(1) Repealed. Pub. L. 97-51, Sec. 111(a)(1), Oct. 1, 1981, 95 Stat. 962;
(2) when such fifth or twentieth day falls on Saturday, Sunday, or on a legal holiday (including any holiday on which the banks of the District of Columbia are closed pursuant to law) such compensation shall be payable on the next preceding workday; and
(3) any part of such compensation accrued for any month may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Senate, be paid prior to the day specified in the preceding provisions of this section.
For purposes of title 26 and for accounting and reporting purposes, disbursements made in accordance with this section on the fifth day of a month, or on the next preceding workday if such fifth day falls on Saturday, Sunday, or a legal holiday, shall be considered to have been made on the last day of the preceding month.
(Pub. L. 86-426, Sec. 1, Apr. 20, 1960, 74 Stat. 53; Pub. L. 92-136, Sec. 6, Oct. 11, 1971, 85 Stat. 378; Pub. L. 96-38, title I, Sec. 108(a), July 25, 1979, 93 Stat. 113; Pub. L. 97-51, Secs. 111(a), 112(a), Oct. 1, 1981, 95 Stat. 962; Pub. L. 97-257, title I, Sec. 105(a), Sept. 10, 1982, 96 Stat. 849; Pub. L. 99-514, Sec. 2, Oct. 22, 1986, 100 Stat. 2095.)
So, why doesn't Cheney's office fit under the regulation of the Senate? Clear? Hardly!
Sorry about the bolding. I have real trouble getting html tags to work right.
Back to the issue. I think the VP is a member of the Legislative, not the executive branch unless he is acting as President or becomes President.
The only power given to the Vice President while he is not President or acting President is to preside over the Senate and that power arises under Articl I, Section 3, the Legislative Branch which says, "The Vice President of the United States shallbe President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Abscence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of the President of the United States.
Seems to me that the President of the Senate (who never shows up) is a member of the Legislative Branch and not the Executive as long as W is functioning as President and exercising the Executive power of the United States.
The Senate should make the rules he operates under. They should simply order that he comply with the secrecy requirements binging on other Members of Congress and congressional employees.
Cheney should be reigned in by the Senate and be interrogated thoroughly under oath in Congressional investigations.
Posted by Nobody at June 22, 2007 01:40 PMThe point is that Cheney is grossly inflating and distorting what the constitution intended as a largely cermonial, contingent, nothing-to-do office into its own independent branch of government which (he claims) is subject to the laws and procedures of no recognized branch of government. This has no basis in the constitutional text or in the history of the country.
And little Nero jr is clearly afraid to challenge Deadeye on the matter. He must have a very hard time reconciling Cheney's rogue "VP branch" with his supposed "total control" of the executive branch--sure does seem like the "VP branch" has his hand in an awful lot of Article II executive decisions and departments, doesn't it Nero?
Posted by at June 22, 2007 01:48 PMby me, sorry.
Posted by euzoius at June 22, 2007 01:49 PMWhat ever branch the "Dick" wants to be under is fine by me. Just cut his funding immediately.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 22, 2007 02:14 PMHow would Rod Serling eliminate the Cheney-Rove 4th dimension of government in an episode of "The Twilight Zone"?
Posted by TIKI AL at June 22, 2007 02:34 PMOkay,okay---The Senate can quit funding the Office of the Vice President. They won't quit paying for Iraq, but they can by God quit paying for Cheney's operational expenses and his digs.
We need to rid ourselves completely of Bushlamist terrorists. They have indeed followed us home.
Posted by gtash at June 22, 2007 03:01 PMHow would Rod Serling eliminate the Cheney-Rove 4th dimension of government in an episode of "The Twilight Zone"?
I believe he would arrange for them to appear on Jon Stewart's show, and let the audience do what they will with them. I think it would take about 12 seconds before they meet the great Banker in the sky.
Posted by tempus at June 22, 2007 03:04 PMMy 11-yr-old heard this on the news (that Cheney says he's not part of the executive branch) and burst out laughing and wondered exactly what branch he thought he was part of. Geez, if an 11-yr-old gets it....
Posted by CG at June 22, 2007 05:20 PMBush is an emply suit. Cheney and his neo-con cadre are running the show.....behind closed doors.
They are not subject to any laws or rules and dare the spineless Dems to call them on it. How much dirt does Cheney et. al. have on these Congresscritters to be able to keep up this charade? Apparently enough to do the job.
No incumbants in '08. Show them all the door.
Posted by brisa at June 22, 2007 05:48 PMLooks like Bush has joined the "Dick" in claiming his "office is exempt from a presidential order requiring government agencies that handle classified national security information to submit to oversight by an independent federal watchdog."
Pitchforks and torches anyone?...anyone?
I suggested ovr at my blog that cheney be defunded RFN, and the plug pulled on his expenses.
As for Jay Rockefeller, I blogged about him right here on this blog back in 2004. Basically, he's not good enough for the job, and he needs to step aside for someone better.
I don't think he's evil, corrupt, just like the goppers, no, just not the right person for the job.
And that's the problem with the Democrats. They're a bunch of pussies. Durbin crying while apologizing, etc. And that's got nothing to do with gender. If Digby can be, well, Digby, there's no reason Democrats can't be more forceful.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 23, 2007 11:00 AMAll the soundly cogent arguments put forth here as to why Bush and Cheney can't legally or constitutionally exempt themselves from oversight resemble nothing more than the Marx brothers when they go fishing: Very amusing.
My God! Don't you all realize you're living in America!
Can't you begin to understand what America is?
Posted by Jill Bains at June 23, 2007 12:33 PMAs there are heads of government, there are also tails of government...which I believe makes Dick Cheney the A**HOLE of the Bush administration...or at least one of them.
Posted by The Oracle at June 23, 2007 09:23 PM