I wonder why it was so easy to predict that Carl would vote to kill this one?
the government is bought and paid for, no clearer proof is required to see this one for what it is, bribery
Posted by oldtree at June 22, 2007 01:15 PMIf we were truely honest with ourselves, we would let Congress hold an IPO for themselves, that way they at least they would be a PUBLICLY traded entity. Hell, I can even see mergers, etc, so as to increase the value of the "company".
Posted by Howd at June 22, 2007 01:27 PMFat-assed Carl Levin is the King of all DINOs.
Posted by Christopher at June 22, 2007 01:53 PMMcCaskill blew it on another important vote just recently, didn't she? What's up with her?
Wonder if Michael J. Fox would still support her?
Oh gawd, those idiots. As I keep insisting on the big picture outlook, the eye to broader macro historic trend patterns, the future hinges on a deft movement away from the Oil Model.
Even if global warming turns out to be a crock, the mere fact that we can move beyond a sloppy mess phase into something genuinely amazing should be incentive for anyone with a clue to get on board.
By the way, Market Ticker was right. The dow is headed down.
It is essential to see the economy as the keystone to corporatocracy. If these scum start to take huge hits, the whole awful ugly mess of our time goes into remission like a cancer.
I'm with paradox on this, fire the fossils and get some new blood into the system with an eye to what easily can be. Snark may worry the bean count but there is so much dead wood in congress and pruning is way overdue.
The hogs will be slaughtered within the next 6 months. School yourselves, look to long trend patterns and get over the mediocrities claiming to be the answer. Hell, if you forget now and look to Congress in the 1920s, you'd see similar patterns.
Can you name any of these faceless clods who helped make the Great Depression or how they made it happen?
A Franklin Delano Roosevelt avatar will show up soon to fix a crisis on the horizon. We don't know who this is but it will happen.You will know leadership when it arrives and an essential precondition will be the near collapse of corporatocracy.
I am vey confident this will happen between now and the fall. The fundamentals are very bad, the thing is desperately flailing to keep an anemic thing running
Bush is a dead man walking.
Posted by Chris Rich at June 22, 2007 02:24 PMI, too, wish that these legislators had voted for energy independence; but maybe they are saving their powder for a more important battle: after the Senate overturns the president's veto, either Senator will be able to claim "I voted against it before I voted for it."
Posted by steve at June 22, 2007 02:31 PMWell, here's Levin's floor statement on why he, and Stabenow and McCaskill presumably, voted against the bill.
Take it for what it's worth.
But if you guys are looking for Senators who are gonna vote every vote the way you think they should you're gonna piss through a bunch of people real fast. Levin was out front against the war in Iraq from day one. He has consistantly supported veterans, women, labor and minority issues throughout his career. He's not a fucking DINO. Now he casts a vote that you don't like and he's a chump. Yes, he's consistant in supporting the auto industry. Ask the UAW what they think of him. This bill passed easily but you feel the need to deny the guy a vote that appeals to his constituents.
Ideological purity here we come!
Posted by snark at June 22, 2007 07:57 PMWell, at least DINO Carl Levin has one defender 'round here.
Posted by Christopher at June 23, 2007 04:26 AMsnark:
Good one. That would explain the anger people are feeling towards the dems eventhough they have only been in power for 6 months.It's hard to stop a runaway freight train in 6 months after it's been out of control for six years. Yet everytime it doesn't go our way here come the long knives. Even when it does go our way here come the long knives.
Sure I'm not thrilled with the quartet but when 19 Republicans join together with 46 Democrats, I consider that a victory. Why focus on 4 out of 50 when the outcome wasn't even close?
As for Levin, I think he had a tough week. He's still confusing leaving Iraq with his stellar and long time support of veterans. No question about that but he's far from a DINO.
Posted by Daryl at June 23, 2007 05:31 AM......... and I also (indirectly) donated money to Claire McCaskill. Makes one rethink their contributions to "blue" campaigns.
Sad.
Discouraging.
Why focus on 4 out of 50 when the outcome wasn't even close?
Exactly, Daryl. Levin had a constituency to face and since the outcome wasn't in question, he was probably allowed to vote the way his state expected him to vote.
It's easy to see why the Republicans were able to get and keep their majority for so long - they stay together even when they lose, and come back fighting no matter what. Democratic supporters have crumbled and abandoned the party at the first loss, surrendering before the really tough battles are fully engaged; it reinforces and the stereotype of the weak-kneed left in the eyes of the public as they look for leaders in these uncertain times. Just look at Bush. He's no leader; they spent a lot of time and money on giving the impression that he was one, and it worked. Sticking to principle and wanting change are great, but until you control the system, change will never come. That doesn't mean people have to abandon their principles, it just means you have to be more flexible and expect losses while capitalizing on small gains over time. And it will take time to overcome what it took Republicans over 30 years to build up.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 23, 2007 07:28 AMThat doesn't mean people have to abandon their principles,...
Levin is quite principled in taking lobby money from the big 3 auto makers. In fact, Chrysler, GM, and Ford are among his top "contributors". He might have voted his conscience, but by all appearances he voted his wallet. And that is the problem. He did not vote for his constituents that I can tell. He voted for his "Johns". And he blew them as surely as any hooker in Vegas. So his vote for the 3 automakers outweighs his entire constituency...and, of course, this was a vote that didn't matter...like the Iraq War Funding vote. It's unimportant
The idea that the republi-con party is somehow superior because they march in Nazi lockstep to the tune called by their masters, making them superior, is dead wrong. So if the Dems vote to continue the war in Iraq all should rejoice and unify to stand behind the death, destruction, and torture, the argument being that you don't care for them enough if you do otherwise. Well, clap for fucking Tinkerbell! The same logic says that if you would not have sex with a child to get your sweetheart to marry you that you just don't love your sweetheart enough. I, for one, am opposed to that brand of logic. And I am opposed to Levin throwing his vote so he can get his ass packed full of lobbyest contributions from the big three. His State can do better, and I hope they oust the old fucker. It is something I would contribute to.
Posted by phidipides at June 23, 2007 08:43 AMHis State can do better, and I hope they oust the old fucker. It is something I would contribute to.
I have to agree phid, "his State can do better".
He's been a Senator since 1979. He'll be 73 next thursday and plans on running for a 6th term in '08'. If he wins, he'll be over 80 when he finishes his next term. If that's not a "Dino", I don't know what is. Time for new blood!
Seems to me that corporate America did to Levin exactly what it wanted. Use him up for the tool he is.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 23, 2007 09:19 AMThe idea that the republi-con party is somehow superior because they march in Nazi lockstep to the tune called by their masters, making them superior, is dead wrong.
I never said they were superior; I said that's how they win, by sticking together, and that's why the Dems lose, because they don't. It was an observation, not advice. If anyone's being nazified on the left, it's those demanding ejection of pols who don't vote in lockstep to your ideology, no matter how correctly they voted on other issues in the past.
I feel the only choice we have of making a change is the lesser of two evils. I don't think the US can survive another GOP president, so I'm going to have to vote Dem in '08. That's just me. Concentrating on trashing the Dems because they "won't" stop Bush's rampage is like blaming the cops because murderers still murder. Or blaming scientists because they haven't cured cancer yet. Instead of directing your anger at the real perps, you attack the ones trying to make a change - which makes change all the more difficult to effect. Sure, there are crooked cops, and yes, there are scientists doing scary things, and there are Dems being corrupt, but I believe it's better that the cops, scientists and Dems are there, even if they don't immediately end crime, disease or wars. Maybe that's clapping for Tinkerbell, but that's pretty much what life is about, hoping for the best, but not being too disappointed that things don't work that way; better luck next time. You want to bang your head against the wall whenever things don't work out exactly the way you want, that's your biz. You seem to enjoy it. I'm just tired of being angry at things that'll never change, is all.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 23, 2007 09:30 AMSoS, I agree that the DINOs will have to go eventually, but if it's a choice between helping a "good" Dem replace a "bad" Dem or any Dem replacing a GOP stooge, I'm concentrating on getting rid of the stooge, because a Dem supermajority is more valuable to me. The next president will probably be choosing 2 SCOTUS judges in the next term, and I'd rather it be a Dem doing the choosing than the GOP fundies.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 23, 2007 09:41 AMConcentrating on trashing the Dems because they "won't" stop Bush's rampage is like blaming the cops because murderers still murder.
No, it's more like a cop letting a murderer go free.
It's congresses job to stop bu$h. And congress is not doing their job.
I going to vote for Dems also, because like you said, it's "the lesser of two evils".
But if we can pick up more Progressive seats along the way that is even better.
That should always be our goal.
But if we can pick up more Progressive seats along the way that is even better.
If it's feasible, I agree. But if it's a choice between leaving a safe Dem seat for the time being and defending a shaky one, or unseating a GOPer, I'm going for the GOPer. I agree that the Dems in congress need to do a better job, but I don't agree that trashing all dems because some of them are wishy-washy is going to help get the supermajority needed to get things done later. That's what I'm talking about here; I guess I needed to clarify it.
As for the cop analogy, the cops can arrest a murderer, but if the system is fucked up, and the murderer has a good lawyer, he's gonna get off. That's why it's important to get good judges. The Bushies have used every loophole and ambiguity in the law to do what they've done, that's why it seems like they're getting away with it. As Rachel Maddow said yesterday on AAR, we used to be able to shame corrupt politicians into doing the right thing - we should all be shocked that that's the only thing that stopped other leaders in the past from doing what Cheney has done. But it seems to be true. He's creating a full-blown constitutional crisis here, and I feel like we really are on the edge. What happens in the next couple years will shape how our Constitution is interpreted for the next 50 years; as important as all the issues we've been talking about here are, this one is the most important one in my mind.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 23, 2007 10:04 AMthey stay together even when they lose, and come back fighting no matter what.
Right. Our side has to learn that. We naturally should keep the pressure on people like Pelosi and Reid and disagree with them. But for all their flaws they are tenfold better than Hastert and Frist. Calling them wimps, spineless or whatever just gives trolls and Fox News thier talking points.
As for Levin and Stabenow, the reality is the auto industry still cuts a deep and wide swath through Michigan. They did what their peeps wanted them to do. Politics is still local.
Posted by Daryl at June 23, 2007 11:15 AMThey did what their peeps wanted them to do. Politics is still local.
I don't really know what the Auto Industry is tying to accomplish in Michigan.
That's why I wrote that comment, "Seems to me that corporate America did to Levin exactly what it wanted. Use him up for the tool he is."
There is no doubt that we need the presidency in the next cycle, I don't think we will have a problem. I think the House is a lock as well. What I'm really hoping for is 60 Dems or Dem leaning Indys in the Senate.
And a small little dream, a simple majority to kick Lieberman to the curb for his remaining 4 years.
Aah Seven, the auto biz is just pandering to the most obnoxious bunch of self centered childish idiots the nation has ever seen, the Fat Phase, fat people in fat cars living in fat homes, inefficiency, sloth and waste at every turn.
I remember a Saab ad that went "You don't use technical climbing gear to walk city streets, why buy a SUV to drive city roads, Saab.... the smart choice"
You have a vast pile of tantrum prone children decked out in adult, (a dolt) bodies flatly blindsided by the inexorable fact that they are sucky deranged hogs wrecking a planet over infantile 'lifestyle' trifles foisted off on them by marketing vampires skilled at manipulating dumb fat children.
Posted by Chris Rich at June 23, 2007 05:00 PM