Bush said he'd veto any bill like this and he will. These guys are just looking for political cover. Until enough votes to override a veto are certain they are just posturing. Why won't 67 votes happen? Because time will run out. In six months it will be every man for himself as the Campaign 08 will be in full swing, the nation will realize the nightmare is drawing to a close and the competing plans for what to do with Iraq after Bush will be the topic. The only way 67 Senators will line up against Bush is if there is one loss of life incident so horrible that the country goes nuts. Even then Bush would argue that as CinC, he is not required to abide by the Congress. Think he wouldn't?? Notice one thing about the Lugar/Warner proposal....it doesn't say anything about pulling out, especially the words "defending U.S. assets". What U.S. Assets are we talking about? Wouldn't be the OIL, would it?
Posted by T2 at July 13, 2007 02:04 PM/ignore troll
Wouldn't it be nice to envision a tipping point where the GOP views Bush as a liability to their party and work toward ending the war en masse? Then the impeachment wheels could rev up...
Posted by Roy Batty at July 13, 2007 02:54 PM"Notice one thing about the Lugar/Warner proposal....it doesn't say anything about pulling out, especially the words "defending U.S. assets". What U.S. Assets are we talking about? Wouldn't be the OIL, would it?"
T2, that was my first response, after no troop withdrawal timeline.
Bush's/Cheney's response: "Fuck Congress."
Scout is an Internet stalker.
Posted by Judith at July 13, 2007 03:03 PMWhile Congress continues holding their tea party, BuShCo is quickly getting all the pieces in place to make Congress completely irrelevant. Or perhaps I'm an optimist and it's already too late and nothing can stop them.
Posted by Marie at July 13, 2007 03:15 PMIt is too bad that we must witness this theater. These old men don't do or say what they mean. They are putting on a game to look good.
We, the people, are tired of your act. Please retire so that you are no longer an embarrassment, not to mention a hazard, to us all.
A story just prior to this one from the LA Times:
"In deference to the president … I think it's important that we wait until all the facts are in in September," said John W. Warner (R-Va.), former Senate Armed Services Committee chairman.
I'm not in VA, but I called Warner's office this morning and asked why Warner thought that "all the facts" would be available for evaluation in September. I'm not buying the idea that they aren't waiting for Sept--their bill only calls for a change of pace AFTER Sept. And you know that the reports in Sept will be filled with the same shit as we just witnessed.
Vague calls for a "change of course" are not adequate. Bush always talks about adjusting tactics on an ongoing basis.
Reid et. al. need to directly challenge Bush's judgement and leadership abilities. Bush and his crew are calling Dems cowards and pussies each and every day. The best response to that is not to vote 97-0 on condemning Iran. The Dems need to tell the American people that they can no longer suppport this CinC because he's lousy at leading the fight. And he doesn't listen to generals...Bush should NEVER be allowed to claim that he "listens to generals" again.
Posted by Paul at July 13, 2007 04:31 PMWatch this Epic Educational film produced in the 40's by the US government and shown in American public school classrooms in 1946. It's entitled, "Despotism" and educates us all how to identify a country slipping into despotic rule.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eGkx9cFALo&mode=related&search
If there is any question what direction Bushco is taking the United States, this film provides the answer.
Posted by brisa at July 13, 2007 07:07 PM"I'm not in VA, but I called Warner's office this morning and asked why Warner thought that "all the facts" would be available for evaluation in September."
Paul, what response were you given by Warner?
Thanks in advance.
Jackie
A report from MSNBC says that the Iraqi police, who American taxpayers have paid to have our soldiers train and arm, have attacked Americans. It's far past time to bring our troops home.
Posted by ann at July 13, 2007 07:55 PMWhat a very confused messages coming from Congress. They send Petraeus to Iraq when he clearly states his intention to conduct a large-scale counterinsurgency strategy, they hold up his funding, and just when he gets all of the troops he requested, they try to pull the rug out from underneath him. Given that the military benchmarks have largely been met at this point, why does Congress want to stop now? Could it be success they really fear?
Posted by peter at July 13, 2007 08:12 PMpeter success as measured by you and the rest of the chickenhawks is seeing how many of our troops you can get slaughtered...
Posted by headxray at July 13, 2007 08:21 PMtwo fucking drunken psycho nutcases have total life and death power over the entire fucking world.
and we allowed it.
don't think they won't use these powers, for as much evil and death as they possibly can.
RIP America. I hope you come back after this nightmare.
Posted by at July 13, 2007 09:11 PMoops me that last comment
Posted by Sharkbabe at July 13, 2007 09:13 PMOh great! The president much change course in Iraq. In other words, find another way to accomplish the imperialist goals. Big freaking deal. Either way Iraqis are screwed.
Anything short of a rapid, and full withdrawal is absolutely useless.
Posted by Shirin at July 13, 2007 09:20 PMIt is kind of funny. Bush has been about as clear as he can possibly be. We aren't getting out of Iraq no matter how bad things get. We aren't leaving. Condi said this on the Charlie Rose show a couple of months ago. She said that we aren't leaving until Iraq can protect her own borders. My grandson will be voting before that happens.
Lugar and Warner are fooling around. Either they work with the Democrats to bring the troops home or nothing is going to happen. We need 11 Republicans.
The only alternative is to vote to impeach Bush but to remove him from office (and Cheney) and that will still need 16 Republicans. This ain't going to happen.
Posted by ecthompson at July 13, 2007 11:49 PMecthompson, I am all for impeaching Cheney and Bush (in that order preferably), but don't delude yourself into believing, as some people do, that the democrats will then suddenly jump up and order the troops out of Iraq, and the several giant permanent - excuse me, "enduring" - bases abandoned along with the Regional Imperial Command and Control Center - oh, excuse me, embassy - in Baghdad. They MAY order withdrawal of most or even all of the "combat troops", which will leave tens of thousands there to populate the bases until hell freezes over, or the Iraqis succeed in forcing them out.
The Democrats' imperial ambitions are not that different, they just prefer less blatant means of achieving more or less the same ends.
Posted by Shirin at July 14, 2007 12:12 AMLong story short. Met a blues player who was in Iraq for a short while, as a blues artists. Believe it or not, Iraqis, according to him, love blues music. They also loved the Americans and everything they thought we stood for (flowers at our feet, remember?) How tragic for a people who once admired us, as the hand extended in friendship, turned into the hand that murders them.
Posted by Judith at July 14, 2007 02:51 AMWhy would it be surprising that Iraqis love blues music? They are not some lost stone age tribe recently discovered running around naked in the jungle/desert/whatever. Iraqis are actually pretty sophisticated, worldly people, you know. :o}
Posted by Shirin at July 14, 2007 04:46 PM