Thank you!
Anyone who doesn't think it is the duty and obligation of Congress to begin impeachment hearings immediately needs to watch that show.
Posted by CA-04 Voter at July 14, 2007 09:46 AMAre you saing that Nancy Pelosi is on the table?
Posted by at July 14, 2007 09:59 AMI agree Steve. As much as I miss Gilliard's insights (reference: Paradox post), the odds that Bush as a certifiable malignant narcissist would some home initiate his own resignation are minimal.
The C&L Moyer's video was an eye-opener for me. The points of Nichols and Fein were salient and missing from the MSM trivialization of the impeachment(s) discussion.
First, the process is necessary if only to try to prevent monarchical abuse of power by FUTURE presidents. Second, MSM often characterizes the 'medicine as worse than the disease'.
In fact, the Framers envisioned the impeachment process as an appropriate, if severe, mechanism for resolving a constututional crisis (I lost count after habeus corpus)
i saw this last night on my pbs station, by far the most progressive conversation about our times.
i thought it was a bit chilling what he said if congress didn't act.
about half way through the show the picture started blacking out and then went dead here in nc. seems to happen often too frontline and other progressive shows, never happens during antique road show though.
thanks for the link.
Posted by wm at July 14, 2007 12:38 PMbefore forgiveness comes penance. penance in this case is jail-time.
Posted by Jim DeRosa at July 14, 2007 01:26 PMI agree, Steve. Cheney has anointed Bush Unitary Executive. The Unitary Executive doesn't yield to Congress nor to the public will. Impeachment is the only remedy to arrest this affliction of arrogance and abuse of authority.
Posted by fafnir at July 14, 2007 03:41 PMCongress should have opened impeachment hearings when the WMD in Iraq failed to surface, the Downing Street memo and/or the warrantless wiretapping surfaced. However, now that they solidly control the WH, SCOTUS, military and Justic, will impeachment with or without conviction stop Bush/Cheney? Or would Bush simply declare and emergency and suspend Congress?
Posted by Marie at July 14, 2007 04:19 PMwe the people must in the end somehow force Congress to impeach both cheney and bush. imo it is going to take the physical presence of millions in the streets of DC to make this Congress act. my biggest fear is that this bunch of criminals are going to orchestrate an attack or some disaster in order to declare martial law and never leave.
Posted by chris at July 14, 2007 05:45 PM"i thought it was a bit chilling what he said if congress didn't act."
wm, I didn't see the show. What was said that was so chilling?
Posted by at July 14, 2007 07:39 PMi find it very hard indeed to believe that the demoRats will act, impeachment or defunding the war. whatever. we are in fact on the long slippery slope down into what they called the unitary executive. the american emperor or king or caesar. whatever name it won't be given but the president will in fact wear that crown.
and by doing nothing against that now, this will play nicely into the demoRats' hands next. they know they're going to win the 2008 election, and that the next president can and will act very similarly to how bush is acting - unilaterally. in fact, it will be worse because the precedents are being established and the media has been going along with it now for over 6 years, hog wild for the most part.
that's how it's going to be from now on, mostly because of the continuing crises that the american Empire will face overseas. and the continuing "threats" of "terrorism" which the Empire itself has created and brought upon itself.
so why should the demoRats want to stop that? it's more power!!
of course there are certain elements of the intellectual class and even some of the ruling political elites who are appalled by what bush and cheney have done. but they have for the most part been silent and/or ineffective in mounting any real opposition.
and let's not forget, by not impeaching this prez and VP, and immediately ending this brutal immoral war, in fact the demoRats are complicitous in all the monstrous war crimes of the Iraq occupation and the criminal behaviour of the bushivites in this phony 'war on terror' and general loss of civil liberties etc etc etc....I'm sorry but a few hearings and a few subpoenas just doesn't cut the mustard. i mean the demoRats won't even talk about impeaching gonzales either!@!!
Posted by michael72 at July 14, 2007 11:25 PMI watched the Bill Moyers Journal and it was simply electrifying. I watched it with a group of friends who felt as I did, that it was a powerful and historical moment. We can't afford not to impeach the buggers. We cannot afford to pass on this monster of a presidency, without the education and expiation of full disclosure, without detailed media coverage of investigations and a trial in the Senate (win or lose).
If it's a showdown of Bush and Cheney against the Constitution, it has to be the Constitution that we fight for. A legal precedent must be made, in order to repudiate an imperial presidency, a "unitary executive", a war president, a decider, or any other monarchical construct that describes the heap of rogue executive orders, and the shitload of illegitimate powers and total information awareness that this Frankenstein Executive has seized in the service of its own feeding frenzy.
Renewed pressure and reasoned arguments must be put forward to House Speaker Pelosi and the democratic leadership to make impeachment happen.
Posted by Copeland at July 15, 2007 12:02 AMChris, I agree with protest, but then again, I have been saying that for a long time. If we have to shut down Washington DC, then that's what it means, and I don't mean for a day.
Copeland and Michael72, you are correct. If politicians are not shown that crimes against the Constitution of the United States are not acceptable and are punishable, then the Democrats will continue the slippery slope in further undermine the Constitution. Soon, there will be no Constitution. As far as I am concerned, the Constitution is being replaced with a form of Government that renders the Constitution irrelevant.
Posted by Judith at July 15, 2007 05:45 AMWell, I took something different from the conversation.
The Founding Fathers expected the Executive would overreach and that the legislative branch would check that through the power of the purse. We didn't have much chance of that when republi-cons were running things in Congress in the past, but even then it would have only taken 40% of Congress (and Dems did have this number) to block anything. At this point the Legislative Branch is complicit with the Executive Branch. The Democrats are to blame starting from day one of 110th Congress.
The Democrats are now bringing you the War in Iraq, Illegal Spying, Torture...everything you blame on Bush is being funded by the Dems. The Dems are responsible.
Posted by phidipides at July 15, 2007 07:29 AMThe US, unfortunately, has gone to the dogs. Cheney has certainly done his job as dick-tator.
Posted by tempus at July 15, 2007 07:32 AMHouse: Impeach Cheney.
Whether the GOoPer constipated senate convicts is not crucial. At least future presidents will see that they cannot get off scot free if they pull the shit Cheney has or if they undertake Cheneyism. This is essential.
If Cheney IS convicted, then the coalition of impeaching senators should present Nero jr with a list of who he may pick as the next VP---three names: perhaps Warren Rudman, James Baker or John Danforth. The point is the list is pre-selected, Nero has a very limited "choice".
And whomever he selects must receive the same "deal" with Nero as Deadeye Dick had. In short, he's the de-facto prezledent. Nero can cut brush, drink, resign, whatever. No one cares.
This is what the constitution demands.
Posted by euzoius at July 15, 2007 09:45 AMThe US, unfortunately, has gone to the dogs. Cheney has certainly done his job as dick-tator.
bah-rum-pump
bah-rum-pump
Phid, is that good or bad? I watch Jon Stewart and Colbert all the time, so I have no idea what's up or down!!
Posted by tempus at July 15, 2007 01:33 PM"We cannot afford to pass on this monster of a presidency, without the education and expiation of full disclosure..." -(Copeland)
-Copeland, I agree with your posting except would go further:
Impeachment is not enough; only further arrest and imprisonment would suffice. And if the fascist courts free the war criminals? Then the jurists should be arrested and imprisoned.
Expiation? Most certainly a swell idea.
How much expiation was there for the close to one million Vietnamese who were slaughtered by America?
Why none, of course!
Isn't it about time we all just admitted it?
America does not 'do' expiation.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 15, 2007 07:32 PMJill--Impeachment will of necessity be a process of expiation. But to whom to shall we offer the process of repair or pay the penalty?
It seem to me that we must pay the penalty and offer comfort to all of our citizens. I connect expiation to the necessity of full disclosure, which we may not get if the culprits choose to resign. Of course it will be a good--in and of itself--if they do quit their offices.
The nation can receive the repair that impeachment proceedings offer, when all of us see the House of Representatives recommending the removal from office of two men who have violated their oaths of office, broken quite a number of laws, and criminally tampered with the process of justice.
What worries me, Jill, is that your pained cry that, "America does not 'do' expiation" will be proven right, if America fails to do impeachment in this particular case.
Posted by Copeland at July 15, 2007 10:21 PMThe headline should read: "The republicans hold their party above the interest of the country and the constitution."
As long as the country allows the republicans to ignore the rule of law and the constitution, there republic will continue deteriorate.
The difference between now and when Nixon resigned is that republicans hold party above country. Why are we not calling them out?
If the republicans put country first today, bush and cheney will be impeached tomorrow.
bah-rum-pump
That's the drumroll after the punchline on the borscht belt. I was going to invite the folks to try the trout and let them know we were at the Blue Light Lodge in the Catskills for the summer.
Posted by phidipides at July 16, 2007 12:02 AM