"You can't have it both ways, Tony." -(Steve Soto)
Steve, I wish this were true.
The Bush regime has proceeded to have it 'both ways' all along.
And it really did not matter.
Scott McCllean was so tongue tied most of the time from choking on lies and scabrous contradictions that he just gave up (quite successfully I may add) from even trying to tell the truth; he became so ridiculous one could only laugh through all the ghoulish outrages he perpetuated.
America loves war.
Had Bush even not tried to lie and started the bombing for no reason whatsoever,the American people would have gotten behind him.
As long as bombs are dropping and coloured people are being slaughtered, things are just great. Even Tony Snow will tell you that- unashamedly I may add.
But then you knew that, right?
And Congress? Dare you even ask.
It is only when even the massive fascist disinformation could not allay the fact that America just might be losing is when Americans started paying attention.
America is the avatar, the future of death.It will always be death's latest model.
Even now, perhaps for near 50% of the citizenry, that accolade is one of pride.
And on with the show!
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 01:28 PMNice find, Steve! Not that we need any more proof that Tony and his overlords will lie about anything and everything. They're really pushing the dang Al Qaeda crap this week aren't they?
The Rude Pundit has another stellar post today that pretty much sums it up:
In her column last week, Peggy "Oh, Fuck, I Was So Wrong" Noonan wondered why Bush is so relentlessly upbeat despite the fact that he's, you know, commander-in-chiefin' a war that's gone to shit: "As I watched the news conference, it occurred to me that one of the things that might leave people feeling somewhat disoriented is the president’s seemingly effortless high spirits. He’s in a good mood. There was the usual teasing, the partly aggressive, partly joshing humor, the certitude. He doesn’t seem to be suffering, which is jarring." Of course, one answer to this is that, generally, severely retarded people smile a lot unless you hold their fingers over a fire. Then, god, how they scream.
But Noonan doesn't really have an answer other than "his good humor seems to me disorienting, and strange." To answer Peggy Noonan's question about why Bush is so fuckin' happy in public, look no further than his buddy Ken Lay just before Enron went into the shitter. He knew it was falling apart, but he still smiled and lied to keep the stock up at least until he could cash out.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 02:11 PMI know it's politically incorrect, but I must say, at least for this moment, .Jill Bains marry me
Posted by Sharkbabe at July 19, 2007 02:17 PMSharkbabe, you sure you want to marry someone who thinks the troops deserve to die because they volunteered for the fascist America? Because that's what she said only yesterday.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 02:23 PMOops, I lied, it was Monday:
The troops were not drafted or forcibly conscripted and had a choice not to enlist. The decision was their's to become emissaries and agents of an Imperial fascism aiming at world domination. That, to me is unconscionable and unforgiveable. They should be defeated and destroyed similar to the agents of Nazism. It is of no relevance to me how many of these people, as individuals, may be wonderful human beings.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 17, 2007 02:51 PM
Add a "Bolshevic" and "jezebel" and you got yourself another scout.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 02:55 PMJill Bains at 1:28 pm
"America loves war" -very well said. This thought is expounded in the very relevant book "Commander in Chief-How Truman, Johnson and Bush Turned a Presidential Power into a Threat to America's Future" by Geoffrey Perret. As the subtitle implies, Perret explores how these three presidents waged wars of aggression against countries that were never a threat to anyone in these United States. Perret also mentions how Nixon had formulated a plan to invade North Vietnam which would have involved bombing that country's dikes, thereby causing the deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilian Vietnamese lives. This plan by Nixon took place during the same time that the U.S. was secretely bombing Cambodia in 1969.
Zoltan Grossman, assistant professor of geography at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Wa., has compiled a list of over 100 times when the United States has intervened militarily, both at home and abroad. As he titles it,these interventions have ranged from Wounded Knee to Iraq. His list does not include military exercises, the permanent stationing of armed forces around the world, covert actions where the U.S. did not play a command and control role, military training and advisory programs not involving direct combat, etc.
It should be obvious that the United States has been the biggest purveyor of violence in the world during the last 100 years. One wonders what it will take for America's leaders to acknowledge that American Exceptionalism is not the best way to win the hearts and minds of those people residing in this country, as well as the underdeveloped countries and the Middle East.
Posted by Erroll at July 19, 2007 04:30 PM"The troops were not drafted or forcibly conscripted and had a choice not to enlist. The decision was their's to become emissaries and agents of an Imperial fascism aiming at world domination..."
Actually, I was somewhat WITH Jill Bains up to this point, although I do think fascism is a bit hyperbolic.
And I whole heartedly support the Iraqi resistance (not the ones who are slaughtering civilians - those are not resistance - but the ones who are targetting the occupation), but I by no means to I endorse this:
"They should be defeated and destroyed similar to the agents of Nazism."
News flash: They HAVE been defeated in Iraq, but should they be destroyed? No, let them all go home, and good luck and good health to them. I would prefer if Bush would remove them now and avoid any more harm coming to them.
But let them never forget what they did to the Iraqi people.
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 04:43 PMIs the purpose of the Guard and Reserve to defend the American homeland or to augment the active-duty military wherever in the world it is engaged? I am sure that there are few who thought that by signing up for the Guard or Reserve, they would find themselves in Iraq killing Iraqis.
Shame on anyone who wishes the death of another.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 05:43 PMWell, Judith, that doesn't matter; they joined the national guard, they deserve to die according to Jill. What I'd love to see is her picketing outside a Marine base and telling them how she feels. See what kind of argument she gets.
I just think it's silly to declare that "America loves war." If America were destroyed, would wars end? Don't think so. And while there is an alarming segment of the population who seems to get off the killing of the "other," it says a lot that those who really wanted war needed to lie, cheat, and terrorize the rest of the people to get them to go along with the idea. Now, they've turned against it, and Tony Snow can lie all he wants, they're not going to change their minds on Iraq.
As for the people who start wars, I think they're more interested in money and the power it brings them. Of course there are those who fight against oppression or defend themselves as the Iraqis have been forced to do; but that's more reactionary, not making war for war's sake. The sad part is, the ones without the money and power are the ones who end up subjugated or dead.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 05:54 PMtony has made itself irrelevant. it only lies about the lying, and everyone knows. they have self destructed, there is no doubt. doubt is whether we get what little government we had back.
unless they intend to leave the country to avoid prosecution, they can't afford to be investigated, they can't afford to even leave office. there will be a major terror attack to force the engagerer to declare martial law. or congress can act and act fast. the drain is open, the contents of the US economy are leaving for the ocean. they have embezzled billions.
why do we keep on hoping? why does our congress move notably slower than they have to? why in so many instances and on so many issues that require a special prosecutor to investigate due to a corrupt DOJ.....
so many crimes.
Thanks Erroll.
It is always nice to be backed up, even accidentally, by someone a whole better than I am at marshalling historical fact to bolster an argument. Perrett's book, I have been told, does an excellent job in simply putting out and cataloging all those inconvenient truths in one place.
That war, is indeed an American demiurge of a seemingly ritualistic proclivity that subsumes politics is something I have not been able to purge from consciousness; especially when corroborated by a historical record really not all that difficult to find.
It is a continual source of incredulity that those paupers on this site, suffering from a hopeless naïveté, are so churlish they try to label me into an oblivion of their own making.
Erroll, post more often on this site as you are much needed here. The blog threatens to devolve into a facetious excuse for a Democratic party school for pom-pom girls- a closed club of hagiographers, subsisting on a diet of indigestible inanity.
The reason they have not attracted a wider audience, or dare I say 'club membership' is that level of discourse is so vapid. The fare here, in contrast to a blog like say Digby, lacks for the necessary sapidity to encourage a healthy appetite.
The club members in this insular little world feels threatened.
All the better.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 06:11 PMThe brazen lying of Tony Snow is to be expected, but to lie about something that contradicts all facts is beyond my comprehension.
is beyond my comprehension.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 06:14 PM
????? How far is "beyond"
You won't have Tony Snow to berate for much longer. The inside scoop is that the WH Press Office is being outsourced to Blackwater USA as of Labor Day...
Posted by tfitznc at July 19, 2007 06:29 PMI have a suggestion Bains, and it's the same one Steve Soto stated. Why don't you go to another site and leave us "paupers suffering from a hopeless naïveté," to our "club of hagiographers, subsisting on a diet of indigestible inanity? Your arrogance is fucking unbelievable. Digby would love to have you on their site so you can inform them on how brillant you are, and what "paupers" they are.
Iamcoyote, if I didn't know better, I would think Scout has transformed himself into Jill Bains. The arrogance is comparable.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 06:34 PM
Judith, thats the beauty of the internets....Jill could be Toby, or Scout, or Jill, or Karl, or......Bin Laden....or Chalabi or Not Jenna or some 13 year old kid. Or T2. But it's probably not George W. Bush...because he can't type.
Posted by T2 at July 19, 2007 06:42 PMShirin's posting above and commentary on some language in one of my postings is well taken, and one which I will be archiving. It is clearly one of the most nuanced replies to my position on the American occupation in Iraq. I welcome this with gratitude.
I too would rather they pack up and go home. Healthy too.
But as long as they continue killing for the American imperium I do not feel that way at all.
But since they do not appear to be going home anytime soon, and as long as they continue brutalizing the Iraqi people I stand by what I said. No apologies. No regrets.
As far as stating that they have ALREADY LOST, I am with you here: America lost and the troops were defeated before the first bomb was dropped.
But that is somewhat metaphorical. And that is not enough for me. It can't be.
When they leave and one hears the cheers of humanity heralding their defeat, then they can suffer the consequences of their crimes.
"But let them never forget what they did to the Iraqi people."
-(Shirin)
Superb. The testimony of the soldiers returning to tell this story is almost enough for expiation.
Almost.
Como en Vietnam.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 06:42 PMJudith and T2, no, I've seen Jill in digby's comments and they think she's a dork there, too. I gotta say, though, I haven't laughed so hard at such forced snobbery since Blackadder went off the air:
It is a continual source of incredulity that those paupers on this site, suffering from a hopeless naïveté, are so churlish they try to label me into an oblivion of their own making.
Hilarious! What a putz!
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 06:56 PM"I have a suggestion Bains, and it's the same one Steve Soto stated. Why don't you go to another site and leave us "paupers suffering from a hopeless naïveté," -(Judith)
-I go where I am most needed.
Sure its dirty work, but somebody has to do it!
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 06:57 PMFuck Tony Snow. This is the action I've been waiting to see:
70 house Dems say "No more money for war."
"Dear Mr. President:
We are writing to inform you that we will only support appropriating additional funds for U.S. military operations in Iraq during Fiscal Year 2008 and beyond for the protection and safe redeployment of all our troops out of Iraq before you leave office.",/i>
It's a start. Pelosi, get your head out of your ass and start working with these Democrats instead of the lobbys.
Posted by phidipides at July 19, 2007 07:03 PM-I go where I am most needed.
Sure its dirty work, but somebody has to do it!
Reminds me of u.jest. Well, besides the marxist and anarchist crap.
Posted by Seven of Six at July 19, 2007 07:12 PMSoS, I googled her, she's laughed at all over the lefty blogs and has been banned in several places. Her name's a punchline. Like petey and teabagger, the point is to piss people off. I guess it validates her existence.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 07:17 PMI posted on Digby regularly for about two years, and sure I made a few enemies. But also some friends. But I wasn't there to do any of that.
I was there to comment. And comment I did.
But I can tell you one thing.
I was read.
Assiduously read, in fact never missed.
All those who just as soon wished I would continue to prepare some Terine de Fois Gras de Canard,Salade de Mâche Pommes de Terre,Rouget à l'Émulsion d'Huille d' Olive, Poulet Grillé en Crapaudine, and a simple Tarte au Citron or commit ritual Seppuku never failed to read me.
Anyway my daughter prefers a Pozole Rojo.
Sure they hated to admit to it.
But just like you, they read, and as you, will religiously continue to do so.
You, like Judith are suffering from a crisis of irrelevance.
But don't worry about me.
Cause' I don't read you.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 07:20 PMOhhhhh - Blackadder! I LOVED that show. It should have lasted forever!
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 07:21 PMHey,wherever I go I get 'googled' by those suffering an identity crisis.
It is kind of sad, even pathetic that you admit to researching me.
I got to you where you live.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 07:28 PMShirin, Blackadder was the best; never gets stale.
BTW, did anyone see the dKos diary where Tony Snow slipped and said the "right kind of" people will be asking the questions at Bush's Tenn. "town hall?"
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 07:28 PMp-dip, I noticed Ron Paul was on that list. I guess he's gotta find some way to get some press, huh?
And Conyers today mentioned Inherent Contempt concerning Josh Bolten's refusal to appear.
Maybe that's why Bush needs to spend some time around the "right people," huh?
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 07:33 PM"Scott McCllean was so tongue tied most of the time from choking on lies and scabrous contradictions..."
Great description. The problem with Scotty was that he was just not comfortable lying, so when he did an invisible pair of hands rose from his gut to choke him. He had too much of a conscience.
Tony actually has the same problem. You can see when he knows he's lying or twisting the truth. He just doesn't look comfortable.
Ari Fleischer was the BEST Official Presidential Liar EVER. He was so smooth, so seamless, never missed a beat. Clearly the guy is a full-on sociopath to be able to lie and obfuscate and spin, and mangle truth with such complete aplomb.
Ari pissed you off because he could look you right in the eye and tell the most amazing whoppers without so much as a twitch. Scotty and Tony are just embarrassing.
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 07:33 PMI miss Ari - he took his lying seriously! Snow's such an obvious suck up; what do you expect from a Fox "news" graduate? But Scotty was just sad. He hated what he was doing, you could tell.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 07:40 PMThe first sign of the skewered, the embarrassed and the aggrieved is their unremitting pursuit of an impossible vengeance.
Judith and Coyote, having already suffered a brutal, irrevocable 'take down' from which they know they cannot recover, persist, like children, to get back at their victorious interlocutor.
That little game was over a long time ago. And it should stay over. Its boring. Sure, we can play all day, but so what?
Spinning like apoplectic, frothing tops, they produce much heat, and little light- further debasing themselves as they go.
They should get back to their compound.
It's much safer there.
Among the company of the lurching 'undead.'
They are the Michael Novak's of the internet.
Posted by Jill Bains at July 19, 2007 07:40 PMI agree iamcoyote. Scotty hated what he was doing, and Tony is just trying to damned hard. For Ari it was effortless.
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 07:50 PMI think that's why Scotty didn't last long, too. You always got the sense he would one day just break down and tell the truth - although it did help him to have the reporters feel pity. Ari was an artiste!
Have you ever seen/heard Fran Townsend? That one's just a snot. Tony Snow may be smarmy and say whatever he's told to say, but Townsend gets irate when her lies are questioned and starts getting insulting. Not a good way to win reporters' nudge, nudge wink wink complicity.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 07:57 PMI think that's why Scotty didn't last long,..
I am rolling on the freaking floor!
You're going to let the canard get quite froid so it's all the sweeter when you serve it up, aren't you?
Posted by phidipides at July 19, 2007 08:14 PMWord is that Fran Townsend is simply incompetent. I just saw a clip of her on Jon Stewart's show, and it would have been hilarious if it all weren't so damned grim.
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 08:19 PMJill B.
One of the best kept secrets on the Internet appears to be a little known web site called "left i on the news." It is probably a little more to the left than most liberal sites but the proprietor, Eli Stephens, discusses topics that the other sites seem hesitant in covering. He also speaks out vociferously on a topic that is near and dear to your heart [as it is to mine] and that is against the occupation of Iraq and for the immediate withdrawal of the troops from that abattoir in Iraq. Perhaps I will see you there in the near future.
Posted by Erroll at July 19, 2007 08:30 PMAw, c'mon, p-dip, you know Scotty just wanted people to like him! Heh.
Shirin, that's probably why Fran's so cranky. She knows she doesn't measure up.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 19, 2007 08:31 PM"You, like Judith are suffering from a crisis of irrelevance."
Jill, they call that projection, in case you didn't know.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 08:55 PM"Judith and Coyote, having already suffered a brutal, irrevocable 'take down' from which they know they cannot recover"
Really Jill, and when might that "take down" be happening? Believe me sweetie, you have got to get better at "take downs," because somehow I missed it.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 09:05 PMI don't know how many pollsters are still asking how many Americans think Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 (disclosure, I work for SRBI, which conducts pools for Time, Pew, & Annenberg...)
I suppose Tony Snow might try to use the dodge that the Authorization to use force came from the Congress, and not the White House, but that won't cut butter for long, given how fond Cheney was of talking about a mythical meeting between Mohammed Atta and Iraqi intel in Prague, even after it had been debunked. Or the numerous times which the WH (and Feith's office) emphasized the most tenuous of connections.
Snow is either woefully ignorant or lying.
Posted by Frank Lynch at July 19, 2007 09:13 PMI swear to God, Jill Bains is more deluded than scout.
Posted by at July 19, 2007 09:35 PM"Snow is either woefully ignorant or lying."
Frank Lynch
Or both.
Next thing Snow will tell us is Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11, and we didn't really attack Iraq.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 09:38 PMAnon, she needs to start her own blog. Can you imagine a conversation between Scout and Bains? They would literally drive one another insane.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 09:45 PMOne-word description of much of Jill Bains' writing:
hypurpole - hyperbolic purple prose
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 10:07 PMAnon, she needs to start her own blog. Can you imagine a conversation between Scout and Bains? They would literally drive one another insane.
Posted by Judith at July 19, 2007 09:45 PM
Sorry, Judith, that was me. I haven't posted for awhile, but I find this lady so annoying and so off-base, I felt compelled to say something. She has a good command of the english language, but that's it, she's all hat and no cattle. She never presents a single plausible thought to her rambling dissertations. To top it off, she talks about "take-downs" and "victories". Seriously deluded.
Posted by sf at July 19, 2007 10:07 PM"She has a good command of the english language"
See my comment just above re hypurpole.
She DOES scatter some nice points among the hypurpole, but alas one has to tread through so much chaff to get to the few grains of wheat.
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 10:22 PMShe DOES scatter some nice points among the hypurpole, but alas one has to tread through so much chaff to get to the few grains of wheat.
Posted by Shirin at July 19, 2007 10:22 PM
See my comment about all hat and no cattle.
I thought Jill and scout were one in the same.
Posted by JohnT at July 20, 2007 05:29 AMYeah, big words and command of the english language, and what does she use that talent for? To express hatred for America, hatred our troops and hatred for anyone who disagrees. What an unhappy person.
Posted by Judith at July 20, 2007 05:51 AMyou guys don't get it. bush never said "saddam did 911" or "saddam orchestrated 911" or "saddam ordered 911" or "saddam told osama to do 911". unless you can find bush saying these things, then he never said saddam was connected to 911. tony "the parser" snow is right. sorry but i have no respect for liars, spinners, parsers and i hope tony has a bigger pain in the ass!!!! he is the one who was broadcasting on fox info he got from linda tripp while she worked in the wh and was spying for fox and the repubic hairs.
Posted by mamameow at July 20, 2007 07:38 AMmamameow:
He did say Saddam aided those who carried out 9/11 (see the certification), and Snow is now saying Bush never said Saddam played a role in 9/11. So which is it?
Posted by Steve Soto at July 20, 2007 09:00 AM I agree with steve I remember Bush Saying that.
George W. Bush, September 2002:
"You can’t distinguish between al-Qaida and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."
Fuck you, Tony.
Posted by at July 21, 2007 10:03 AM