Here is the list of Democratic senators who voted Friday to give Bush increased authority to spy.

Sen. Evan Bayh (IN)
Sen. Tom Carper (DE)
Sen. Bob Casey (PA)
Sen. Kent Conrad (ND)
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (CA)
Sen. Daniel Inouye (HI)
Sen. Amy Klobuchar (MN)
Sen. Mary Landrieu (LA)
Sen. Blanche Lincoln (AR)
Sen. Claire McCaskill (MO)
Sen. Barbara Mikulski (MD)
Sen. Bill Nelson (FL)
Sen. Ben Nelson (NE)
Sen. Mark Pryor (AR)
Sen. Ken Salazar (CO)
Sen. Jim Webb (VA)

Remember, when Jim Webb was the darling of the progressives? And DiFi, always a Republican at heart.

Anyone who's lived in a real dictatorship will have little patience for such theatrics.

And if Mistah Bush deigns to notice them, he'll be laughing his head off.

The fix was in.

Time to send $$$ to Cindy Sheehan.

Another Orwellian bill - the Protect America Act.

It's bad enough we have to get bill after bill of Constitution destroying sycophancy but they always come with a little cherry of newspeak on top.

Protect America my ass. Congress takes an oath to protect the Constitution, not America. The IDEA is the country. I guess that's over.

Ken Salazar is a traitor to his party. He might as well be Joe Lieberman.

We have a President with the lowest public approval rating in history. But is it any surprise that congress only rates 2 or 3 points higher with the public. People know in their heart that they are betrayed equally by both parties. Bush could have worked none of his evil were he not enabled by the Democratic Party.

Congress no longer answers to the public. Nor do they answer to their oath to defend the constitution. They answer only to the big corporations and the big money and the culture of the insider who will preserve power at any cost.

So how are we now different from the Italy or the Germany of 1935? We are a Fascist state. We have a dictatorial president supported by an effective one-party congress, a right wing Supreme Court and a corporate owned press.

America has extinguished it's shining light and has stumbled, drunk with money and power, into the darkness.

Christopher, can you provide a link? I can't find it.

Thanks Christopher, I found it.

TIKI, You better have a talk with Harry Mitchell!

The four Dems and one lieberloser that were part of the gang of 14 all voted with the pukes!

This really is just unbelievable.

In every way, IN EVERY WAY - from a stance on the constitution, to passing the "right" bill, to being treated like crap by Bush, as well as lied about by Bush and co. AGAIN, to completely losing the faith of their democratic voters - in EVERY WAY, this is failure.

I just don't understand it. On the merits, on being strong, on the optics, and on the politics, exactly the wrong thing to do.

What in the world?

"We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts -- not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution."
-- Abraham Lincoln

I will register as an Independent

We need a real alternative to the two-corporate party system now in place. Maybe we could call it the Constitution Party, since that is what we want as a top priority, a return to Constitutional government with respect and following of our Constitution.

Below are my comments in a similar view:

The Voter's Internet Party: a modest proposal.

To the Editor:

We need to create a new Voter's Internet Party. With every passing day in the 21st century, it is becoming painfully more obvious to all but the most fanatically partisan of us that the vast majority of the Senators and Representatives from both of the two major political parties are irrevocably corrupted by the unseemly influence of major corporations and the wealthy ruling elites. Therefore, we, the vast majority, who want clean honest open government need to form a new political party that will serve our interests, and not those of the ruling wealthy corporate elites. Therefore, may I suggest that we create a new Voter's Internet Party to honor the ideal of a traditional count-all-the-votes democracy.

With widespread use of the Internet, we now have a relatively easy, inexpensive and efficient way to contact and organize the many millions of American voters that have been disenfranchised and disillusioned in the 21st century by the Bush & Co. theft of the 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections. The brilliant example of the highly-effective grassroots campaigns of the Internet-based MoveOn.org in the 2004 Presidential campaign has shown that Internet-organizing can be a powerful tool for progressive social change.

Orange. Since orange has been clearly identified in the mass media as the color of protest of election fraud first in the Ukraine and later in the United States, let us use the color orange to help identify our new Internet Voter's Party.

We need our new Internet Voter's Party to help facilitate our country's return to the exclusive use of traditional hand-counted paper ballots. We need to stage thousands of 21st century versions of the 1773 Boston Tea Party by dumping all of the computerized electronic voting machines and computerized electronic vote tabulating machines into the nearest body of water. As long as there are any computerized electronic voting machines and computerized electronic vote tabulating machines used in any voting precinct in the country, there will be Republican hackers, riggers and thugs who will find ways to rig, hack and steal future American elections. Just say no to the use of electronic computerized voting machines and electronic computerized vote tabulating machines in any future elections.

We need our new Internet Voter's Party to demand that all future elections be administeredby professional non-partisan state civil servants, not by partisan political hacks such as the 2000 Republican Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris and the 2004 Republican Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will be grass-roots based on small individual annual contributions not to exceed a maximum of $100 per year. Our new Voter's Internet Party will thus avoid the corporate corruption which has long been the hallmark and the curse of the two large political parties.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor and preserve our natural environment.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor social security, labor laws and privacy laws.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor a woman's right to choose.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor international law, international treaties and international obligations.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will not torture anyone under any circumstances. Our new Voter's Internet Party will consider the Golden Rule regarding torture: If you don't want it done to you when you are in legal custody, then we will not do it to anyone in American legal custody.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor the working people of American with good working conditions and a living wage for all.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor the public's right to control public airwaves and to thus require public interest broadcasting on television and radio instead of the current arrangement of allow greedy private corporations to dominate our airwaves.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will honor the right to universal health care and universal single-payer health insurance.

Our new Voter's Internet Party will return the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to its traditional watch-dog role of protecting the American consumer instead of its current practice of protecting and enlarging the obscene profits of greedy drug manufacturers.

This was composed and published shortly after the stolen Election of 2004.

Most of them are your newly minted senators you worked so hard to elect. Thanks for your hard work Democratic Senators, you truly love America. I wonder how many more would have voted for the bill had they not been afraid of the nutroots. Thanks for the list Christopher, I was wondering who stood up with us in this bi-partisan legislation. 227-183 now that's impressive. WOW, a lame duck president is able to command the Democratic Leadership and they comply! A president with somewhere between 24 an 39 approval is able to command this Democratic Leadership! Who would have thought.

And they now trust the AG and the DNI to approve these wiretaps. It would have been a long August had this not been accomplished. The worse Congress ever would have heard about it each and every day. He shamed them into co-operating. They were very afraid. We'll get more victories for the American people. And more victories for the Republicans for their stance.

this is one clear reason why i haven't been a registered democrat in ages.
and doubt that I will ever ever ever vote for these totalitarians again, no matter who their candidates are. just disgraceful.

time for another boston tea part

I've decided to leave the Democratic Party and become an Independent. I won't stand with sellouts and wussies.

I never should have become a Democrat in the first place.

Important suggestion:

Change your registration to "decline to state". This will disassociate you with the Democratic party while still allowing you to vote in one of the primary elections.

THE INTELLIGENCE OF SCAVENGERS
Atlantic Coast of Nicaragua, 1982

Three vultures walk the ground clumsily
and hunch their wings
like renegade colonels
in rustling cloaks, in full-dress uniform.

They know the geography
of every ambush, the troop movements
of the mercenaries,
turning with an alert salute
of their beaks
to the many beckoning hands
of open graves.

The intelligence of scavengers
is everywhere in the countryside,
patiently scouting the moment
to skin the dead,
to parade arrogantly
among the living.

--Martín Espada

Can someone tell me what is going on at YKOS? In the past 48 hours I have read with increasing horror the utter capitulation on this FISA bill but have seen no mention of it in posts, anywhere, about YKOS. Sort of surreal.

I'm surprised by Claire McCaskill's vote, but I guess nothing should surprise me anymore.

Still think there will be an election next year?

We ask the question why the Democrats voted for expanding Bush's power? The answer is obvious, but unthinkable. We have a corrupt Government and both parties are hungry for power and control. United they will take complete control, and you and I will be shot for dissenting. Welcome to the United States of Fascism. I await the knock on the door.

By-the-way Peter, in Germany, you would have made a good little Nazi.

Time to review American Fascism:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
CHECK

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
CHECK

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
CHECK

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
CHECK

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
CHECK

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
CHECK

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
CHECK

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
CHECK

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
CHECK

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
CHECK

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. CHECK

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
CHECK

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. CHECK

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. CHECK

An interesting note to end this article: As of January 2004, the United States fulfills all fourteen points of fascism and all seven warning signs are present. But we're not alone. Israel also fulfills all fourteen points and all seven warning signs as well.

http://geniusofinsanityworld.blogspot.com/2004/10/american-fascism.html

Ever wonder why the GOP powers want Hillary to run, while all the time trying to make you think they are afraid she can beat them? Answer: She is one of them. We are about to be duped into running a candidate that was selected long ago by the powerful. Think about this. Why are there no viable candidates running for President on the GOP ticket. Answer: The fix is in. They want Hillary to win. No, I am not taking my tinfoil hat off. Expect anything from this point on.

The mystery of the Clinton scheduling flip-flop that was to prevent her from attending a YearlyKos break out session lives on.

So what was the real scheduling conflict?

How about a $4,600 dinner per person dinner - drinks are separate and start at $1,000 per person - at the Hamptons estate of billionaire Ron Perelman? The Clintons are scheduled to dine there Saturday night, along with co-hosts Jessica Seinfeld, Jonathan Tisch and Alan J. Patricof, who is also throwing a breakfast fundraiser for Senator Clinton at his home on Sunday. It's all part of a 'whirlwind weekend' of Clinton fundraisers in the Hamptons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/08/04/clintons-real-yearlykos-_n_59168.html

3,665

Many congressional Democrats wanted tighter restrictions on government surveillance, but yielded in the face of Bush's veto threats and the impending August recess. So, Mr. 29% can still threaten to get what he wants.

Ah yes, the August recess. Don't let anything like the Constitution of the United States stand in your way of that August recess fuckers!

"This bill would grant the attorney general the ability to wiretap anybody, any place, any time without court review, without any checks and balances," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., during the debate preceding the vote. "I think this unwarranted, unprecedented measure would simply eviscerate the 4th Amendment," which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures.

Well, of course it will "eviscerate the 4th Amendment. That's why it was passed idiot!

Republicans disputed her description. "It does nothing to tear up the Constitution," said Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif.

No, it doesn't tear it up, it burns it.

If an American's communications are swept up in surveillance of a foreigner, he said, "we go through a process called minimization" and get rid of the records unless there is reason to suspect the American is a threat.

And just who makes that decision? What and whom are considered "a threat?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070804/terrorism-surveillance/

So why don't you liberals want our country protected from Terrorists? There is no reason the government should not be able to listen in on terrorist conversations.

Unless, maybe, you have something to hide?

I could almost ALMOST understand passing the (already written months beforehand) patriot act in a rush in 2001. But this is 2007!!!!! And these worthless carcases STILL haven't figured out that the Cheney regime is shouting terrorism to amass more power? My god, 26 percent in the polls and the chimp in chief still gets his way. My god, I have lost hope. I am exhausted.

On Saturday, the US House fell in line too.

To her credit, Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi voted "NO" but the list of cowardly DINO Dems who sided with Bush against the rule of law and against the US Constitution is too long to post here.

This is a sad day for America.

These are the House Dems that turned-coat:

Jason Altmire (4th Pennsylvania)
Melissa Bean (8th Illinois)
Dan Boren (2nd Oklahoma)
Allen Boyd (2nd Florida)
Christopher Carney (10th Pennsylvania)
Ben Chandler (6th Kentucky)
Henry Cuellar (28th Texas)
Artur Davis (7th Alabama)
Lincoln Davis (4th Tennessee)
Joe Donnelly (2nd Indiana)
Brad Ellsworth (8th Indiana)
Bob Etheridge (North Carolina)
Bart Gordon (6th Tennessee)
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (South Dakota)
Brian Higgins (27th New York)
Baron Hill (9th Indiana)
Nick Lampson (23rd Texas)
Daniel Lipinski (3rd Illinois)
Jim Marshall (8th Georgia)
Jim Matheson (2nd Utah)
Mike McIntyre (7th North Carolina) Charlie Melancon (3rd Louisiana) Harry Mitchell (5th Arizona)
Colin Peterson (7th Minnesota)
Earl Pomeroy (North Dakota)
Ciro Rodriguez (23rd Texas)
Mike Ross (4th Arkansas)
John Salazar (3rd Colorado)
Heath Shuler (11th North Carolina)Vic Snyder (2nd Arkansas)
Zachary Space (18th Ohio)
John Tanner (8th Tennessee)
Gene Taylor (4th Mississippi)
Timothy Walz (1st Minnesota)
Charles A. Wilson (6th Ohio)

Ykos is completely silent because most of the blogosphere threw everything behind these Democrats when there was another choice, we did not have to be so conventionally supportive.

Well, it was a horrible mistake and they now know it. The only thing they know to do is shut up.

Oh, the bad news probably screwed up all their Saturday night parties. Couldn't have that.

While I don't like Bush having more power, this is about intercepting foreign communications that are simply routed through US equipment, is it not? I don't mean to sound naive, but this just sounds like a technicality to me--they're already allowed to spy on foreign communication. Plus, I believe they do have to get court approval eventually (dems wanted 10 days, prez wanted never, I think they compromised at 120 days.) And this bill expires in 6 months, so they have time to fix it and make adjustments. If it were a democratic president asking for this, would everyone be up in arms? This doesn't sound like spying on Americans to me.

Well, I've been registered unenrolled in my state for years. But, the only bright side for me is that my Congressional representatives are Kerry, Kennedy, and Barney Frank whose voting records pretty much parallel my viewpoints and wishes.

But really, I'm at a loss...looking at that list of capitulators ...Klobuchar, Webb, Hersth, Carney...um those names were flouted on websites in order to give Democrats a majority in Congress. Well that happened and a Democratic majority was had...but please.
How's that Majority thingy working out these days? The Democratic leadership has failed...miserably.

Why'd Nancy "Off the Table" Pelosi let it get to the floor? Why was it a simple majority and not the 60 votes everything else seems to need? Why the rush? This "it sunsets in 6 months" garbage is so much hot air. AbuG is big fucking crook and so they hand him a silver platter with our rights on it?
I hope they choke on their vacations cuz they're certainly not earning their paychecks.

this is about intercepting foreign communications that are simply routed through US equipment

CG, that's what the bill said - I read thru it a couple times. I think everyone's miffed because the Bushies are making it into a huge PR victory and it stings. The Dems really need to get their act together in the PR department. Webb's the only one i saw come out and try to explain the vote at all.

But I think the real scandal, that the Reps are trying to overshadow with shouts of victory, is the fact that Boehner let slip classified info on tv by announcing the FISA court decision on the illegality of the foreign wiretapping, and no one's saying boo. It once again proves that the GOP is not to be trusted with secret info.

The Intellect, go change your name to The Traitor.

First there was rage, now there is despair. The Democrats are utterly hopeless and I will no longer waste my money on them.

As for peter, I don't take lectures on patriotism from pants-wetting right-wing cowards.

Yeah, you motherf*ckers go home early and face your constituents. While your at it, why don't you tell them, face to face, you are no longer interested in matters that concern them.

Look, the majority of Democratic senators voted against this. Let's not punish the entire party because of a few cowards. Instead, come next election we should send a message by voting those losers out. Lets face it, we are the ones who decide who the democratic senators will be through our votes. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Do you reallly want the repugs back in power?? Then we sure as hell have no chance.

"And this bill expires in 6 months, so they have time to fix it and make adjustments."

CG, they will fix it and make adjustments okay. Fixing it means further refining a bill that goes against American principals and American people.

"Look, the majority of Democratic senators voted against this."

jdw, that's like being a little pregnant.

Even Ashcroft in ICU had more backbone when he told AbuG to fuck off!

Just once I would have liked to see the Democrats stand united on a vote, but evidently that is never going to happen.

CG..It appears you're okay with this as noted in your post. I am not and here's some great legal analysis and reasons why. Please read (if you haven't already) the Balkinization blog.

Here's a snippet analysis of one aspect of the legislation that I find the most scary...maybe you don't but I do.(my emphasis).

The key provision of S.1927 is new section 105A of FISA (see page 2), which categorically excludes from FISA's requirements any and all "surveillance directed at a person reasonably believed to be located outside of the United States."

For surveillance to come within this exemption, there is no requirement that it be conducted outside the U.S.; no requirement that the person at whom it is "directed" be an agent of a foreign power or in any way connected to terrorism or other wrongdoing; and no requirement that the surveillance does not also encompass communications of U.S. persons. Indeed, if read literally, it would exclude from FISA any surveillance that is in some sense "directed" both at persons overseas and at persons in the U.S

This is coming from a prominent lawyer/scholar saying this,not just me saying this. Don't you think for a second Cheney,Addington, and Rove through their puppet Gonzo plan to take advantage of that giant loophole noted in that section.
Why do you think Bushie said my way or the highway on this amendment. But hey if you think there is enough checks and balances in there for you...all I can say is... Wow.

"Even Ashcroft in ICU had more backbone when he told AbuG to fuck off!"

Sharon, good comment and true.

How many of these fine people did this website work so hard to get elected for the majority...Lots. Thank you for your hard work! To ask again...Hows that majority working for ya now? I've enjoyed the support y'all have made by the continued funding of the war. I'm going to be enjoying the continued protections provided by this expanded FISA authority. I'm sure, we'll all be enjoying the expansion of the FISA authority when Congress considers this later this year or early next year.

Judith, didn't you learn anything from Sen. Durbin's comments in the past? My dad didn't join the NDSAP and I wouldn't join such a group. I don't believe such a group would ever flourish in America. There wouldn't be acceptance of this type of group.

Looking at your list of courageous Democrats. I don't see anyone from Michigan or California on the list. Thats sorta surprising.

Gay Veteran, I haven't been questioning your patriotism. Not at all. I question Democrats efforts in achieving a victory. We won WWII with Democrats FDR and Truman and a Republican Congress. We tied Korea under Democrat Truman, outcome still in doubt. We lost Vietnam(that began under Democrat Truman or was started in earnest by Democrat Kennedy) under Nixon with massive interference from the Democratic Congress. Democrat President Carter really distinguished our military with the Iran hostages. Democrat President Clinton also distinguished our military in Somalia by not sending heavy units when the general's on the ground wanted them. Remember Black Hawk Down? Then he went after the Yugo's from 40,000 feet and got us involved in Bosnia, where we're still there today. This President is trying to achieve victory in Iraq. It now presently is about to happen and all Democrats seem to want to do is retreat. Isolationism in this global economy is not the answer. We isolated ourselves after WWI and we had a Hitler and La Duce spring up as well as a military junta in Japan. We had all these nice treaties yet these despots went onto threaten the world as we knew it. We have to be involved in this world. We must win this war on terror. It must end.

It's up to "We the People" folks! And the only way for Progress to work is through a larger Democratic majority in Congress!

It's gonna take time for Progressives to make some headway. A Democratic President will make this easier.

Sure capitulating Dems are bad, but please, let's not lose site of who the real enemy of this country is. We must never let neo-con motherf*ckers like peter, ever have the upper hand in the politics of this nation again!

You're right, of course, emal, which is why it's a good thing that this will be revisited in 6 months, in the heat of the campaign, when the Dems who voted for it will (hopefully) be forced to answer for it. Judith has it right - those Dems are now home, their voicemail boxes should be full by now.

Yeah, it sucks that the Dems fell for this shit yet again; but what does it change? Bush has been spying on our communications from day one, law or no law. Doesn't make it right, of course, but it sure shows how urgent it is to get these GOP fuckers out of office, and get a supermajority in Congress. Once the Dems have that, they'll realize that have so much more to lose in the 2010 elections and will have to be more responsive to us, or they'll be out. Threats right now don't mean shit to them because they know that we know there's no other choice in '08.

Dang it, SoS, ya beat me to it!

So why don't you liberals want our country protected from Terrorists?...Unless, maybe, you have something to hide?

Nothing to hide asshole, but we don't want to be falsely accused either!!
I served my country for freedom of speech, not to be arrested for practicing it!

peter,

There were no Republican controlled congresses between 1932 and 1946. The GOP did not control congress at any time during WWII.

Posted by The Intellect at August 5, 2007 01:41 AM

He's of the 'Fat guys whose nickname is 'Tiny' school of nomenclature....

I'm prone to buy Digby's theory that these critters have all been given s 'not for attribution double-secret' heads-up for a 'terrorist outrage' planned against Congress.

Whether that involves paying an insane Dutch Communist to set fire to the Capitol I know not, but such would explain what we have seen....

Yeah, vote Democrat and more of these newly minted Democrats that just voted for the expanded FISA authority that a week president commanded them to provide. There's a great reason to vote Democrat. Vote Democrat and get the war funded completely. Another great reason to vote Democrat. Push the liberal wing of the party out to the fringes where they belong. Get back to the DLC type of Democrat that the Clinton's embody. They've given Democrats their only taste of success. The centrist Democrat, that's what we need. More moderates able to work across party lines. Get rid of this DINO and RINO term. We must work together for our country and not cater to these fringe elements.

Viva the People!
Viva America!

"It's gonna take time for Progressives to make some headway. A Democratic President will make this easier."

Seven of Six, we don't have time.

"I served my country for freedom of speech, not to be arrested for practicing it!"

Seven of Six, BRAVO! Best put down to date, although I'm sure it went over Peter's head.

Sorry Peter, it was The Traitor that said that, not you, although I'm sure it still went over your head.

Any idiot who parrots, "What have you to hide?" ought to be asking that of his hero Prez Executive Privelege, and Gonzo, and all the other toads who are claiming it. What do they have to hide, hmmmmm? Oh that's right, they can't, or no, won't remember.

Herbal tee, facts are such stubborn things, aren't they. Good for you to point that out.

Someone wondered about YK. I find it reassuring that a poll of YK is reverse of the national Democratic polls. The people want HC, Obama, then Edwards. YK wants Edwards, Obama, then HC. Now doesn't that show you how out of touch YK fans are? The people want a DLC'er, YK wants Edwards. SS here agress with the people and their centrist direction.

These young Democrats in Congress face reality and vote to support this president with the tools he needs to protect America. They are the new heroes of the Democratic Party. They will try to hold on to the seats you people worked so hard for. Some will revert back to Republicans. If you fringe elements make too much of a fuss, they may. Good for me, bad for you. 2006 was about corruption, not the war. We ran out many of our corrupt, we still have a few in Alaska, maybe now we'll run out the corrupt Democrats. Time will tell.

"Any idiot who parrots, "What have you to hide?" ought to be asking that of his hero Prez Executive Privelege, and Gonzo, and all the other toads who are claiming it. What do they have to hide, hmmmmm? Oh that's right, they can't, or no, won't remember."

Sharon, it's top secret, National Security, Executive Privilage, yada yada yada. Ask Peter. He will tell ya.

peter just stuff a sock in it already..you must have a bajillion of them being a loyal bushie sockpuppet.

As usual you forget one main and important thing,what part of the general population (not just democrats) support the actions and policies of Mr. 28% and his party you dolt. You're one to talk coming here and lecturing us about just how far out of the mainstream people may be who post here or at kos....you're a joke, a laughingstock...you have no credibility. But go ahead, guess you enjoy looking like a fool.

2006 was about corruption, not the war...Time will tell.

peter, have your kids signed up for Iraq yet? Are they still enjoying college, while the poor, brave ones currently die over there for your brood!

Time will tell, and you will eventually realize that a vast majority of American's want Democrats to determine how we fight this war on terror!
This next election will certainly straighten you out!

emal, feeding the troll a sock?
I like it.

feeding the troll a sock

Makes sense since the only ones still following Commander Codpiece are the ones who slobber over a sock-filled flightsuit.

And the 3% to 16% support your Congressmen and women have gives you that much more authority to speak. Support for the war increased from 35% to 42% and those who thought we should get out decreased from 61 to 51%. Sure shows the electorate is moving in this president's direction. All from the NYTimes, they thought it was a outliers poll so they redid it and found it even more correct. The good news from the front continues to get by your allies in the press. It's just overwhelming them. Another big AQI caught. The Majority Whip had it right, a good report from General Petraeus will fracture the Democratic Party. It's already having an effect with the news.

Now that the war seems to be getting righted, people are starting to look at our economy more. Let see where you people come down on that issue.

peter, you are seriously sick. Go and see someone.

Do you think we could encourage Cindy Sheehan to run for President in 2008 as an (I) or third party? Give Americans who want out of Iraq and who want our freedoms back a choice! With most of America against the Republi-scams and our leaders abandoning us, Cindy could do it! I know she could!

Now that the war seems to be getting righted, people are starting to look at our economy more.

Failures in both areas! But rush tells me it's good, so it must be.

Really good for the Iraqis, who in Western Baghdad are almost without water, down to 1 hour of electricity a day. They love this kind of democracy, bu$h democracy, katrina democracy.
peter, you are just like the administration, everything you say is wrong, the opposite of what is true, but you continue to spin it. Keep going peter, aren't you neck deep yet?

Sharon...lost my head there for a minute...I usually skip his nonsense.

Iamcoyote...good one, I hadn't even considered the double meaning of Commander Codpiece when I made that comment.

now back to ignoring him.

emal, thanks for the link. I'm not ok with all aspects of the bill. I hope they can fix it next time around. But I do think that it would be a bigger PR disaster to pass nothing and let the gop scream that dems were weak on national security and coddling terrorists, blah blah blah. And I think that the honest intent of the bill is ok, though I don't trust the admin to use it in the way that it's meant. So, no, I'm not really ok with all of it, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone here is making it out to be. I don't think it was dems caving to bush. Bush illegally bypassed FISA. Congress said come to us if you need it changed. So he did, and they changed it. In a better, less partisan atmosphere, with a president that people actually liked and trusted, this would be called working together. That's all I'm saying.

CG thanks for the response.
As for the PR part, I'm personally not willing to place my civil liberties behind the politics of fear or the fear of Karl's wrath. Karl's going to call them weak and terra-ist sympathizers, traitors no matter what they do.
That's all they've got.

Plus I don't believe this is anymore urgent an issue than the AUMF resolution was or the actual invasion of Iraq. If it was so urgent and important why would Bush be willing to veto compromise legislation that had been hammered out earlier with McConnell. Legislation that he originally said addressed his needs...but he brought it back to Bush (more likely Cheney and Addingto) and they said no (refer to TPM blog for that story) Just sayin...

Anyway I leave with the Franklin quote on this that sums up my feelings here. Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

I think the tradeoffs you cite just are not worth any infringement on civil liberties like that. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...respectfully.

That fucker Addington. Where is the Gravol, or maybe a beer... Sorry for the language, but he is in the "Billy Kristol" class of disrepair.

If y'all were like those FDR Democrats, maybe we could get along famously. Y'all aren't like the FDR Democrats and that's the real shame. Those were great Democrats, men who would work with this administration to get this war won. You people have none of their blood in you. Quote them all you want. It's a shame you can't live their quotes. Not even in their shadow do you live. Like HC said, "where are the great Democrats?t" Their not with you.

If it was so urgent and important why would Bush be willing to veto compromise legislation that had been hammered out earlier with McConnell. Legislation that he originally said addressed his needs...but he brought it back to Bush (more likely Cheney and Addingto) and they said no

I think they should have passed it as agreed to by the DNI and let Bush veto it if he wanted. I'm not up on the background of why this butted up against the August break--was it in the making for a while or did it just suddenly become urgent? Has Bush signed it yet?

Anyway, yeah, we'll agree to disagree, though we're not disagreeing by much. Civil liberties are important to me and I don't agree with trading them for supposed safety. But this law, if used appropriately, doesn't bother me too much. Which leaves what does bother me--that I don't trust that it will be used appropriately, and I hope they fix it in 6 months.

Paradox: Ykos is completely silent because most of the blogosphere threw everything behind these Democrats when there was another choice, we did not have to be so conventionally supportive.

Yeah, when that became the prevailing CW at dKos somewhere late in 2003, I got it then that it would just become another sandbox for liberal wannabes to play in and the Democratic Party to co-opt. And so it goes.

peter: "Now that the war seems to be getting righted, people are starting to look at our economy more. Let see where you people come down on that issue".

pete, i'll post a couple of links for you, i don't know if you'll understand the info, from your post you don't seem to have a lot of depth in your knowledge of the issues at hand, but here goes:

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/

this is important, the day after this report was released the market fell 400 points. http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12232#post12232

so,

you and me, we're not so different probably, we'll be bashing it out at the bottom, in the mud while the wealthy throw money at us and talk how quaint our battles of what is freedom.

recession 4th qtr 07?

If y'all were like those FDR Democrats, maybe we could get along famously. Y'all aren't like the FDR Democrats and that's the real shame. Those were great Democrats, men who would work with this administration to get this war won.

What has bu$h asked of the American people to win this war? No sacrifices, just go shopping! Continue to give all power to the exective branch. An administration that cares less about the constitution! I laugh when you say work with congress!!! bu$h is the last person to work with congress! He never has; turdblossom and cheney write the GOP's congressional agenda and they follow it. They order the repukes on how to legislate and now bu$h is trying it with the democratic congress. All this while he refuses to answer to Congress and the American people for crimes committed. peter, your as arrogant as he is.

From Jack Balkin on your republi-con party:

...the Republican Party, which long contained a strong element of libertarianism and respect for individual freedom-- particularly in economic matters-- has given up any claims to providing a counterweight to a deluded and incompetent President.

The Republican Party of the future appears to be Rudy Giuliani's party-- waving the bloody shirt of 9/11 and making increasingly extreme assertions about the need for concentrating unaccountable power in the executive. This is the Party of Fear.

It's always the stupid fear, fucking agenda.
Bedwetters like you peter will always support him. You think he'll protect you. He can't, only a free America, with its constitution intact, can. The man has been delaying this occupation for years, good progress my ass! All he knows is abuse of executive priviledge.

But let's throw more cash at the "money pit" in Iraq! bu$h has more friends he has to feed!

Those were great Democrats, men who would work with this administration to get this war won.

Yes, the Dems are responsible for the Sunni bloc from pulling out of the Iraqi government.
Hey peter, there isn't even an operating government in Iraq!
How long did a repuke congress have to win this Iraqi war, 3 1/2 years?

I look along this thread and haven't said "work with Congress" in it. It's up to Congress to work with this administration to help them win it. Provide the tools to win it. Whichever Parties leadership must help the administration win the war. Seems, they've gotten the message as of late. They provided the funds, thought a little late. Now they've stopped for the most part holding these asinine votes every week that they can't win. Seem your hero Rep. Murtha hasn't got the memo yet. I wonder if anybody is speaking to him now. Way too many earmarks for his friends. Now they've provided/ratified expanding the FISA rules aiding in the defense of our nation while we're at war. Seems, they like the coffee we're serving now. Take Haiffa street, in January big gunfights, now a nice place to stroll and buy your household goods.

Judith, I saw your placement of our Heroes lost in Iraq. Why haven't you kept up with our allies losses? How many British soldiers have been lost? How many Iraqi policemen lost? How many Iraqi military lost? They are fighting the same enemy we are. The Iraqi's are fighting for their lives and the lives of their countrymen. And go ahead and list the number of civilian's lost each month. If you'd like list the big number of civilians killed during operation "Iraqi Freedom". Go as high as you'd like, the number will double and more had your side had your way and you'd just say, "I feel badly, but, that's Bush's fault." And you'd leave it at that. "Let them die, just get our guy's out." We didn't do much for the Rwandans in the 90's. I don't see a whole lot about Dar fur right now. I hear the president speaking on it. Not very many Democrats though. Bobby Kennedy would be ashamed of the Democratic Party of today. So would his brother John. You would drum them out of the party as you did Joe Lieberman.

I get it now. Peter is Jill Bains.

Peter, for someone who supports this war, you seem to be so very concerned about those who are killed in this war. You can't have it both ways Peter. I support this war, but oh, oh, people are getting killed. LOL

Oh, and by-the-way, I will fucking post anything I choose without clearing it with you first Peter.

Yeah, I'm concerned about the loss of our citizenry and the loss of their police and soldiers. They are important allies of ours in the war on terror.

Your continued lambasting of our government efforts there have spurred those attacking us on. This didn't happen when we were the opposition in WWII. And I'll admit our side gave Gen. MacArthur a platform in 1952 over Korea. He didn't feel we were trying to win. Seems he was correct now doesn't it. Our side worked with the Kennedy/LBJ admins with Vietnam. We supported Carter's attempts to free the hostages too. You side has done more to hurt our war effort than any opposition in our history. Even worse than the Democrats of Lincoln's time. They only wanted us to seek peace with people that kept slaves. they were willing to let them keep them only lets stop killing each other. Wrong thinking then wrong thinking now.

Man, even Chris Matthews sees your folly now as does many of those who criticize this admins running of the war till the surge started showing results. Results, not progress, results. We are going to win this war with or without ya. If it's without you then your side will be the big losers at election time. Those Democrats that voted for this FISA law may be the ones that become the senior members of committees y'all used to chair.

peter, quit talking in circles. Of course you get paid to do this stuff.

Show me the money. This, I do for free.

For those trolling from the sidelines, things are going swimmingly; but oddly, the "coalition of the willing" has decided to vamoose. For instance, the Spanish, the Italians, the Danes, and soon enough the Brits. Oh, if it isn't just like World War II. Look who is left holding the bag!

An excess of blind obedience to these sadists in the White House has led to another of our hangdog defeats. What does that leave for the peanut gallery? Some war to be won. A fascist kind of war. A morally degrading war leading to our country's most shameful defeat. Let's look at the pity of it. This is the madness of Bush/Cheney destruction, like the Romans pulling Jerusalem down to the ground. Electricity has now dropped to one hour a day in Baghdad. The whole grid may definitively collapse soon. This is the Bush/Cheney schematic of war: the calculated disintegration of societies, and the fabrication of more terror.

And then there are the delusion makers, the gamers, and the submissives. Thucydides said, "I do not blame those determined to control, but those so eager to submit".

In the latest Adbusters magazine (# 73), Matt Taibbi sums up perfectly the American tragedy derived from farce:

The worst thing about all of this is that in America's political future there will be no shortage of well-funded opportunists who will try to bring the "pride" back by campaigning for this or that restorative military campaign. Because we never fight anyone who can meaningfully fight back, and because we've already been whipped badly in North Africa and the Middle East of late, our choices for future invasion targets may have to involve a slightly less imposing class of belligerent nation--Reunion Island, say, or Liechtenstein, or possibly even Great Britain if we get really desperate. And when we get beat by one of those juggernauts, that's when the really ugly feelings will kick in. We'll know the American empire has finally fallen when Oliver Stone makes his epic about the 101st Airborne being pushed into the Gulf of Siam by the Thai tourism ministry.

In all seriousness, the one saving grace of all this is that America in the years since the end of the Vietnam War has evolved in a direction of such extraordinary collective stupidity that it is entirely possible that even after the inevitable helicopters-leaving-Baghdad moment, a huge plurality of the population will not even be aware that we just lost another war.

In the age of the 24-hour news cycle, we'll be able to pitch the the cessation of hostilities as meaning just about anything--victory, defeat, troops leaving for lunch, anything. And once the money-shot exit moment is past, the country will move on to the next boozed-out Lindsay Lohan scandal three minutes later, leaving the legacy of the Iraq War to be mainly an issue of of how skilled we'll be in future years at lying to ourselves about our history. And unlike knowing when and how and who to fight, we're still pretty good at that.

Copeland, good post.

"Man, even Chris Matthews sees your folly now as does many of those who criticize this admins running of the war till the surge started showing results. Results, not progress, results."

Peter, and what are those results? Please list them.

Let's see, an average of more than 110 Iraqis were killed each day in July, according to the figures. The total number of civilian deaths that month, 3,438, is a 9 percent increase over the tally in June and nearly double the toll in January.

Now that's progress.

And, almost a year later, progress is still being made:

The U.S. troop surge in Iraq has put more soldiers in outposts where they are vulnerable to attack. May has been one of the bloodiest months for U.S. troops since the start of the war, and retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey anticipates more violence during the summer.

May 2007 caps the deadliest six-month period for America of the entire Iraq war -- 540 dead, and counting. May also ends the first six-month period during which at least 80 American service personnel (never mind contractors) died every single month.

That's progress?

At least 832,962 people have been killed, and
1,590,895 seriously injured in Afghanistan and Iraq. To people like Peter, this is progress.

Oh, and the Americans have lost over 422 in Afghanistan.

http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html

Copeland sure shows the state of our education system after exclusively supporting the Democrats. The TEA pays you to protect them as our students suffer.

We'll never know what the number of lost would be had y'all had your way in Iraq, Petraeus is going to prove you wrong. "The war is lost" crowd of people will get there comeuppance. Many "experts" say your number would be doubled close to tripled if y'all had had your way there. And then there's the rest of the region pulled into this war. The numbers lost in the surrounding countries would equal Iraqi's losses. Rep. Ellison went over there and saw the conditions improving. Rep. James Clyburn the Majority Whip admitted as much, saying that for Democrats, good news "would be a really big problem for us, no question about that." A victory would be a problem, now thats wrong sided thinking. Your people are seeing the results since my people can't seem to convince you. WE approved Petraeus and his mission 81 to 0 in the senate. Thats over thirty "Democrats" voting for him. Seems the other senators didn't want to go on record either way. He is the right man at the right time for this job. He is serving us well.

Facts are our President presided over the Democratic leaders and they gave him what he wants. Both for the war and FISA. They even gave him what he needed when he needed it in expanded FISA authorization. They ratified the earlier NSA program, legalized it so to say. A Democratically run Congress did this. Be proud of your majority. They've earned your respect by standing up when America needed them. When this president needed them.

Until BushCo commits harikari or self-immolation, the so-called war on terror is lost. Bush and his ilk are the terrorists, terring the constitution, bill of rights, and terrorizing their own people in addition to the rest of the world. Those like peter don't want to face that fact. Hence he spews "facts" that have no basis in reality. Welcome to MerKKKa.