Looks like a target rich environment for Act Blue and MoveON, etc., etc.
Posted by Retired Catholic at August 5, 2007 08:33 AMBlue Dog roots are not an excuse , and certainly not for my Senator.
Sen Amy Klobuchar of MN is not from a red state..MN may have had a brief flirtation with GOP no new taxes for a while but in 06 the only seat in the state executive that did not go Dem was the Governor and that mainly due to again a 3rd party forcing Pawlenty into his 2nd plurality victory...and our bicameral legislature now has significant Dem majorities.
in any case Klobuchar is not up for re-election till 2012 and I cannot comprehend why she voted for the re-authorization, but I will remember it when she comes up for re-election.
Posted by leftymn at August 5, 2007 08:53 AMStart a third party? Noble idea, but how quickly will you be able to collect donations, build a constituency, and field a candidate?
Three to four election cycles, if the Republicans and abolitionists of the 19th Century, or the Dixicrats of the last century, are the model.
Posted by d at August 5, 2007 09:27 AMRead a post over at FDL that said all of the new democratic congresscritters endorsed/supported by the Blue American Campaign voted against this abomination of a bill. There's a list of the names of just who they supported.Just thought I'd pass this along....and want to remind people to reward good behavior...whether it's financially or just a word of encouragement it probably is a good thing to do.
Posted by emal at August 5, 2007 09:40 AMBlue Dog roots are not an excuse
Excuse for what? Not sure what you mean. But the fact that almost every one of the Dems that voted for the FISA bill are Blue Dogs has to mean something. They're not progressive? Then they need to go.
Here's someone running against a Blue Dog.
d - thanks; I think that's about it, too. But that shows that for '08, we're pretty much stuck with what we got. I happen to believe that it'll be a little easier to build a third party with a Dem supermajority, than with a GOP prez. I could be wrong, and I defer to idiosynchronic's opinion here just 'cos he's been thinking about it rationally for a good long time. Idio? You out there?
Posted by iamcoyote at August 5, 2007 09:40 AM“Mandate for change!” “New Direction"!! I remember hearing this last November, December, and January. Maybe its true and the results are expanded FISA authority and continued support of our troops by Democrats. New support of our troops from Democrats. Seems the old Democrats don't want to do that anymore. So a “New Direction" was needed. Sounds good to me.
Posted by peter at August 5, 2007 09:53 AMand want to remind people to reward good behavior
Luckily, all my reps voted correctly, emal; they're going to be getting kudos from me for sure.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 5, 2007 09:57 AMThanks - I won't quit
Posted by HGG at August 5, 2007 09:58 AMPeter, why do you post here?
Posted by at August 5, 2007 09:58 AMWell, Claire McCaskill will certainly be hearing from me also. I worked for her and supported her, and I sure as hell didn't do that to have her vote yes on this bill.
Posted by Judith at August 5, 2007 10:02 AMHGG - are you a pilot? Noticed your link...
Posted by iamcoyote at August 5, 2007 10:11 AMHuh? Who me? Ratyional?
I can certainly sympathize this morning with anyone ranting for a 3rd party. Hell, even my wife between services this morning ranted at a sympathetic parishioner about needing a caucus that would actually respect the rights of the citizens.
iamcoyote's point that building a third party would be an easier task with a Democratic party in full control of congress and the White House is both true and false. People flock to winners, and a larger party in control could harbor a segment willing to spilt; we're not lockstepping Republicans, after all. But the pressure for uniformity within the party will also increase.
My thoughts this morning are mostly concerned with Blue Dog Leonard Boswell, who was my rep until last month when I moved. In 2005, old Leonard developed a severe case perionditis (sp), ended up in a DC hospital for several months, lost some 50-80 pounds (and I admit, looks a heckovalot better), but resisted any attempts by the party to either find a replacement candidate or discuss Boz's condition with constituents. A Democratic governor could have easily kept his seat Dem with an appointment if needed. But held on, and just barely after the June primaries, was ready to actually start campaigning for his seat. A popular GOP candidate, State Sen. Lamberti ran a hard fiscal conservative campaign against an obviously "i-just-escaped-death" candidate. Boz won with 51.5%, which is a far cry from his previous incumbent slaughters. I think it's arguable that if the Dems hadn't had such a strong election, Boz would have lost his seat.
That stubborn old bastard yesterday once again stabbed his liberal apologists in the state party in the back, and those same apologists will again back his re-election next year. And it's not going to change until death really does claim Boz or the state party structure is thrown out.
Posted by idiosynchronic at August 5, 2007 10:14 AM While frustrated with this idiotic vote in both houses, I had a good laugh this morning when an obviously worried Nancy Pelosi fired off a letter to John Conyers Jr. stating that the American people may not be happy with the outcome of the vote and that some serious modifications must be made to the FISA bill. What is this woman smoking? She had the opportunity to kill this until September, but let it fly anyway. Maybe she really is worried about a Cindy Shehan run for her seat.
Look, there are things that can be done to slow down and eventually kill off the constitutional rot in the house of the people. First, get your hands on the list of those Democrats that voted for this outrageous legislation. Call as well as write them. A little known fact is that for each response a representative gets counts as an equal opinion from 13,000 other voters in the same district. While your at it, write those Democratic senators that abandoned the constitution as well. If these fools think the American electorate are sleeping soundly on this issue, continue to push it in their faces just as we got rid of Mr. Maccaca.
Secondly, make other Americans aware of what has happened. Talk to your friends, relatives and anyone who will listen. Third, forget the magnetic yellow ribbons, and start making a statement. Not one penny more for any politician from either party when they ask for your financial help if they continue throwing the US Constitution under the bus.
Even the smallest of efforts in giving this story increasing air time will alert others as to what has been and is going on. There is plenty of free sharware that will allow you make up everything from bumber stickers to t-shirts. Let everyone know that our Constitutional rights do matter and if you haven't seen the movie V, then I seriously suggest you do. Never forget that together We The People have strength in numbers and those in Washington work for us, not the other way around.
At least it's a start in letting the CFR, The Tri Lateral Commission and others in the NWO that this is our country and that we all stand to gain from her. But when you begin to destroy the very framework and fabric that has set us head and shoulders apart of other countries in our world, we head down a very slippery slope towards facisim. Just keep in mind that quaint saying from the movie Network. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore! Place placards or stickers on every windshield in every parking lot across America, on every tree on every car, truck and bus, but whatever you do don't give into apathy. This is our time now as a people to put an end to political tyranny in America.
Anything but Cheney and Turdbrain.
Posted by tempus at August 5, 2007 10:19 AMThis Congress just ratified the NSA program exposed in 2005. They endorsed the TSP. It serves as a big, ugly admission that the Democrats never took the hard Left seriously, but pandered to them instead for political contributions and to buy a noise machine. Attendees at the YKos conference -- which I do consider a marvel of organization by Markos Moulitsas and a genuine accomplishment by their community -- may want to remember this when they assess their impact on actual policy.
In the meantime, Congress did the right thing, especially in insisting on six-month reviews of these changes. The NSA can properly monitor truly international calls that route through American switches. I would have preferred that the restriction remained on calls with one terminus in the US for some evidence of suspicion for a particular phone number, as the TSP operated before, but perhaps Congress can reapply that in six months.
Any thought of ANY impeachment of our President went out the window now. Even that thought of impeaching the AG went away. Just more wind that's all.
Posted by peter at August 5, 2007 10:30 AMI am ashamed...ASHAMED I TELL YOU!!!
Harry Mitchell, 5th district Arizona did the simian surrender.
Give'em hell....scratch that...Go to hell, Harry!
Posted by TIKI AL at August 5, 2007 10:46 AMBut the pressure for uniformity within the party will also increase.
Yeah, idio, I thought about that - it is a worry. And people do tend towards the easier road. Still, it'll probably be easier to pass public financing for elections under dems, wouldn't it? Which would make it easier for a 3rd party to emerge.
TIKI, my sympathies. You gonna call him while he's in town and give 'im hell? I almost feel sorry for the guy...almost!
Posted by iamcoyote at August 5, 2007 10:54 AMYeah, Harry won the election by the slimest of margins.
"simian surrender"
Damn TIKI, that could be Dems new dance!
Posted by Seven of Six at August 5, 2007 10:59 AMUSA is finished. We are the PNAC successful neo fascisti experiment. Don't do the death camps and gas chambers, looks bad. Main thing, propagandize the minds.
I don't care about saving America anymore, it's not worth saving in its present state.
Humans will emerge from the wreckage. Till then, I can't stand to watch anymore.
Posted by Sharkbabe at August 5, 2007 01:58 PMTill then, I can't stand to watch anymore.
Posted by Sharkbabe at August 5, 2007 01:58 PM
Good Call Jack Kervorkian-He is available again and put yourself out of your misery.
Posted by at August 5, 2007 02:37 PMNO excuses for the Democrats. We have constantly remarked about why can't the Democrats see something, or why are they fooled again by this Administration, or how many times do they have to be crapped on before they stop trusting the GOP? Look in the mirror and ask yourself the same questions about the Democratic leaders.
Posted by Judith at August 5, 2007 03:23 PMHear, hear Judith!!! Who's the more "duped"? Congressional Democrats or those who voted them into office. Elect Democrats they get "duped".
Posted by peter at August 5, 2007 03:28 PMIt doesn't matter what we do. The game is over. The fix was in and the big money won.
The system is now so corrupt that you cannot win high political office without taking vast sums from big corporations.
Doesn't matter if you are democrat or repub. When a vote matters to big business the vote will go to those who paid.
This corrupt, fascist system of money driven cronyism will not be overthrown in our lifetimes. It is now too deeply entrenched.
When has any Fascist state changed it's ways short of complete and utter destruction of the state by an outside force? It took WWII to get rid of Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo. So, what will it take to get rid of our current Fascist masters?
Posted by Binko at August 5, 2007 03:38 PMI heard the Supremes song "you can't hurry love" but it wasn't the Supremes singing, on the car radio today. It reminded me of all this crapola. "...love don't come easaaay, it's a game of give and take. How long must I wait, how much more can I take, before loneliness.....heart to break...." That's right, can't give in since gotta work with the dems we got, not the dems we wish we had. I wasn't born in Sweden so here I am.
Hi Sharkbabe, always like to see you in comments.
*waving*
So what are you going to do about it? Quit voting Democrat?
You bet your ass.
The argument that they suck but that there's no better choice is just stupendously stupid and continues the charade that passes for Democracy in this country.
The Dems are doing what they want. They are getting to the point that they are barely covering it up. They are just as pro corp as the repubs.
Posted by soccerdad at August 5, 2007 06:54 PMFor the Iraq war's opponents, July began as a month of hope. It ended in retreat. It began with Democratic unity in proclaiming the inevitability of American defeat. It ended with respected military analysts--Democrats, no less!--reporting that the situation on the ground had improved, and that the war might be winnable. It began with a plan for a series of votes in Congress that were supposed to stampede nervous Republicans against the continued prosecution of the war. It ended with the GOP spine stiffened, no antiwar legislation passed, and the Democratic Congress adjourning in disarray, with approval ratings lower than President Bush's. It began with Democratic presidential candidates competing in their antiwar pandering. It ended with them having second thoughts--with Barack Obama, losing ground to Hillary Clinton because he seemed naive about real world threats, frantically suggesting that he would invade Pakistan.
July also began with the liberal media disparaging the troops. It ended with the liberal media in retreat. ***
So here is where we are: In terms of U.S. national interests--and in terms of its own political well-being--the Republican party faces a moment when, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, honor points the path of duty, and the right judgment of the facts reinforces the dictates of honor. General Petraeus will deliver the facts in September. If Republicans can keep their nerve under media and elite assault, then they will have the honor of following the path of both duty and the right judgment of the facts. I suspect all will come out well. Americans can sometimes be impatient and short-sighted. But when a choice is clearly presented, they tend to reject the path of defeat and dishonor.
Posted by peter at August 5, 2007 07:26 PMSo what are you going to do about it? Quit voting Democrat?
Yup.
I almost wrote the Dems off after the way Kerry rolled over in Ohio, but I got suckered back into the mid-terms. What do they do with my support? Piss it away.
No more.
Seems to me that would prove the wingnuts right when they call us "Surrender Monkeys."
No, it seems Dems have proven this on their own time and time and time again. Enough's enough. I'm not a "Surrender Monkey," hence while I'm going to be searching around for some winners I can live with. The Dems don't get my vote in 2008 just because they're not Bush. They need to give me a few more reasons this next time around.
Start a third party?
Sounds good to me.
Noble idea, but how quickly will you be able to collect donations, build a constituency, and field a candidate?
Maybe it's a bit of a Quixotic quest, but how much more of a fool's errand is it when compared to trying to get Dems to stand up for our ideals and ideas on policy? And, if Dem politicians don't want to stand up for those policy ideas, well then maybe those ideals aren't really Dem ones. Maybe I ought to be looking to vote elsewhere anyway, for a party that meets at least some of my ideals.
Sit back and join the Republicans in calling the Democrats nasty names?
Yeah, why not? Makes me feel good at least, which is more than what voting Dem does for me.
Sure, it's cathartic, but it won't do a damn thing to take our country back.
And, apparently, neither will voting Dem bring my country back to me. So, why should I vote Dem, exactly?
Thanks for helping to clarify my real choices in 2008.
Posted by Brian Bell at August 5, 2007 07:44 PMBy the way, the only thing more inane than Erin's start to this thread was Peter's comment.
Posted by Brian Bell at August 5, 2007 07:48 PMpeter, as an Englishman, I can say that Churchill would not even sit down with Bush or Cheney, and Patraeus will say whatever Cheney tells him to say. You are a fool if you don't know that. Why do you think he got the job?
Posted by tempus at August 5, 2007 08:07 PMChurchill liked to be around winners. W is a winner. He proves it each and every day he's president. He commands the opposition. He presides over the opposition. Even weakened he's able to preside over the Democratic Leadership. He vetoes your funding bill with dates curtain and they give him the blank check he wants. The House presents him with a less than favorable FISA expansion and he tells them to do better. They do. Churchill was the same way. He only got the Brits through the war favorably and they chopped him off when it was over. Bush is acting so like Churchill. They didn't like him except for the war. And they tolerated him then. Y'all just don't even tolerate Bush. What a shame.
Posted by peter at August 5, 2007 08:53 PMThere is already a third party that offers a reasonable alternative to the Republicans and Democrats. That is the Libertarian party. In 1988, Ron Paul - now running as a Republican for the presidency - was its presidential candidate.
It is possible he will run as a Libertarian again, in 2008, if he doesn't get the Republican nomination (and if I was a betting man, would say that looks unlikely).
Ron Paul always votes as he believes the Constitution says; so without checking the roster, my guess is he voted against "more security."
Posted by Terry Parkhurst at August 5, 2007 10:04 PMPeter, I doubt Bush will go down in history in the same light as Churchill did.
Winner? Is that why he is down to 29% or lower? I might remind you that Hitler was a winner also, using your criteria.
Posted by Judith at August 5, 2007 11:08 PM