Paradox, here's another interesting article about Rove and the press. Forth article down.
Atwater, Rove and now Rove's protege. I hope Rove has the same revelations that Atwater had on his death bed. Although, I can't imagine Rove repenting on his deathbed for any of his right-wing hatchet jobs.
Savvy Fools
by digby
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
Posted by Judith at August 15, 2007 08:16 AMParadox,
This is an excellent editorial.
Posted by Troubled American at August 15, 2007 08:20 AMRove is a destroyer, not a builder. You can win campaigns by destroying but you can't govern that way. You have to build consensus, a record of accomplishment, the trust of the electorate. Rove not only couldn't do that, he didn't have a clue that it should be done. IMHO, he epitomizes the modern Republican party -- dedicated to the destruction of government and the Constitution and anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with them.
Posted by dalloway at August 15, 2007 08:23 AMDalloway, I would say you summed it up nicely. Will be interesting to see what the future has in store for little Karl.
Posted by Judith at August 15, 2007 08:51 AMRover was Bush's Goebbels. Plain and simple.
Posted by Iron skunk at August 15, 2007 09:15 AMRove is overrated and he is certainly no genius.
His strategy lost the 2000 presidential election. Bush was saved by his brother, the governor of Florida, and the corrupt Katherine Harris. Even then, he needed the even more corrupt right wingers on the Supreme Court.
Did Rove engineer the 9/11 attacks? Because if he had, then I would give him credit for the Republican gains after that. But since didn't, I can't give him credit for the National Nervous Breakdown that followed it.
Without 9/11, the Republicans do not make gains in the 2002 congressional elections and Bush's re-election is almost impossible to conceive. Bush's quality of "the more you see him, the less you like him" would not have carried anything with voters. Consider, too, that the policies advanced by Bush/Cheney are and always have been, with the exception of tax cuts, unpopular.
Rove just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Did he exploit it? Sure, but that hardly takes a genius. In fact, it takes a genius, of sorts, to blow the opportunity.
And blow it he did. Bush/Cheney and Rove have handed the Democrats an opportunity to be the national governing party for the next eight to twelve years. The question now is whether the Democrats will blow it.
Posted by James E. Powell at August 15, 2007 10:09 AMAnne Richards, ALGORE, JF Kerry, The best as chosen by the people and you want to call him a blunt instrument. Does this mean brawn outdoes brain? That your people aren't smart enough to get around this blunt instrument. Doesn't say much for your people does it. Brazille, Carville, Begala, Strum, Greenberg, You people are trusting Greenberg and Carville's Democracy Corp for your polling data so much. This blunt instrument just did all of them in, your best and brightest.
You people just can't get over it. You were bested by the two in Texas from 1994 on and for three out of four national elections. History tells us that the oft years of 2002 and 2006 often, most always goes away from the incumbent in the WH. Rove was able to beat history in 2002. And you people crowed loud and clear about 2006 even though the turnover was smaller than the historic trend. Let me ask ya, how's that majority working for ya?
The most ever to vote in a national election, some 122 million participated and you lost in 2004! Some here want to point out those that failed to uphold their right of citizenship and vote, some 79 million people. Those 79 million have no right to talk by their non participation. They let all Americans down by not using their God given right to vote. Rove was able to improve upon his parties turnout 21%. Turnout was supposed to be the Democrats strong point. They always win when they turnout. That 16% improvement over 2000 was quite a feat. I give you my congrats on such a marked turnout for JF Kerry in 2004. Yet Rove bested you with 21%. Wow, that's something!
What I see here is you're trying to blame someone for your shortfalls. You want to have a villain for losing. Let's blame the other guy, that's the easy way. Call him names, so playground of you. Rove played by the rules even as Democrats tried to change them.
Each and every court that heard the various Gore vs. Bush lawsuits in Florida had a Democratic judge. They heard the case and for the most part decided against you, against party affiliation. Let that sink in a while. David Bois had to appeal up to a more friendly court each time. Think about that one, the lower courts had Democrats staffing the judiciary all over the state, yet he had to appeal to a friendlier court. Says much for Democratic justice doesn't it? Those Circuit Court Justices were the heroes in Florida. They stood up for the rule of law without party affiliation. The Florida Supremes disgraced themselves with their fundings and remedies. They changed the intent of the Florida Legislature and forced the appeal to the highest court in the land. The final case drew a seven to two decision against the recount and a five to four decision on the remedy. The Florida Supremes admitted their faulty decisions by dismissing the remanded cases.
Democrats and the Democratically dominated Florida Supremes politicized the judiciary not Republicans. The Justice JP Stephens quote mentioned recently was about the remedy, not the decision. If you're criticizing the decision of Gore v. Bush, you're criticizing Stephens and O'Connor for standing with the majority in deciding the recount was in error of the law.
Spilled milk, sour grapes, that's all this is. He gets the respect of those he bested. The knowledgeable people he bested. That's whats important to me. Their respect in the marketplace...
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 10:15 AMPeter:
Please don't insult me by sighting reported vote totals. The extremely flawed and manipulatable electronic voting and vote tabulation system now widely used thanks to HAVA doesn't pass the smell test. This is not the rant of a partisan, but a conclusion reached by independent evaluations of these systems by multiple entities.
Supporting links: http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/
http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html
The obvious solution to the highly dubious system now in place is to mandate the use of open source code in voting and vote tabulation software, along with random audits comparing electronic vote totals with hand recounts of paper trails to discourage hanky-panky.
History has demonstrated that politicians and political parties will cheat if given the opportunity. And now they have been given that opportunity with no chance of being exposed.
The fact that no DC politician supports this proposal indicates to me that vote fraud has become institutionalized.
Their respect in the marketplace...
Which marketplace? Of ideas? Death and destruction are not ideas. They are the facts surrounding the Mad King, idiot son of George, and his minister, Rove. Are you talking about financials? Wait till the hedge funds get their redemption calls in a few days. Are you talking about personal finances? I just got notified my health insurance premiums are increasing by a third, and the CPI shows a 0.01% increase in June with my bills showing a 10% increase. Which marvels from the republi-con marketplace are you talking about?
You people just can't get over it. You were bested by the two in Texas from 1994 on and for three out of four national elections.
What the fuck are you talking about? Have you gone completely insane?
Does this mean brawn outdoes brain?
I dunno. Ask the Iraqis.
Rove played by the rules even as Democrats tried to change them.
Actually, Rove invented his own rules, and he died by them with the help of people like you. You talk about stupid shit. Rove recognized that the republi-con base could not win an election for dog catcher without coalitions. Since the administration had shot it's wad with the fundamentalist git-wads and imbecilles, he was trying to engineer a coming together of the Hispanics and republi-cons with the immigration bill. Guess what? You fucktards shot that in the ass.
Each and every court that heard the...
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/12/election.wrap/index.html
The security of the voting process in Florida and the Supremes were at issue. Your selective memory and attempt to rewrite history are as crude as any of your analyses on any of the issues.
He gets the respect of those he bested.
Except for the republi-cons who seem to be pissing on his grave, which seem to be most of them.
Posted by phidipides at August 15, 2007 11:04 AMBush and Rove are the most hated men in DC. Why? Because they are jerks. Why did they get away with most of it? Because they held the hammer. Many tales are told of Bush's youth, of extending games far beyond the normal quaters or innings, as far as needed to finally win -rules be damned. That is what those two have in common-the easy will to cheat as long as they can "win" whatever game they are playing. Rove saw the game changed beyond what he could rig, and he split..like all losers will. Don't be surprised if Bush is not far behind him. The next 16 months must look like an eternity in hell for Bush. If only it was.
Posted by T2 at August 15, 2007 11:29 AMparadox - by far the best piece written on Rove in the past few days. Lying, cheating and stealing doesn't take a lot of brain power (although many people confuse that with intelligence - a point I tried to make sometime ago when I wrote about GWB) and almost always in the short run, the crook is sucessful at achieving more money and power than his more honest competitors, many of whom struggle to catch up and adopt the tactics of lying, cheating and stealing themselves.
Posted by Marie at August 15, 2007 12:40 PMFascinating, Gore contested Florida with the most error free method of voting driving people into the touch screen environment ala Diabold, then gets his allies to question them. Who's rigging the vote? Who's making our vote count less? Who doesn't want our representation? Seem to me Democrats are driving this bus. The key punch ballot still has a lower error rate than anything put in it's place. Great guy, Mr. Gore, he knew what he was doing.
Donna Brazille or whoever got to him to contest Florida knew what they were doing. It had nothing to do with the Florida outcome. They knew their side was falling apart, that they needed something else and they knew the error rates in the various voting systems. Democrats don't want any of the voting systems to have merits if they can't win. "It's only fair if we win" is the call.
Go ahead check out the error rates, adding a paper receipt to any system doesn't make it any better. 2006, How amazing is it the lack of challenges to the voting system when Democrats win. They say the numbers overwhelmed the cheaters. What a crock, many of the same election workers as in 2004, doing the same work. Sure seems to indicate the result of 2004 was as fair as the result of 2006. Or any other election this century.
If you ask me, and you haven't, President Bush's legacy will be cemented in these last 16 months. It will much better than many of you would hope. Y'all should be glad for that, but, I know you won't be. You've got both Bush and Rove Derangement Syndrome. BDS and RDS is so very dangerous to the psyche and y'all have it bad. I read it here all the time. Virtually no cure for it. You're scarred for many years. I'm glad I'm not. I wasn't with the previous admin. and I won't be with the next admin. President Rudi Giuliani should do just nicely.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 12:56 PMpeter..you really are one hell of a goofball..george bush was not elected president..al gore was..it was stolen ..that piece of shit in the white house and that freak karl rove were on their way to a failed presidency..on 9/10/01 they were tanking in the polls..then they allowed 9/11 to happened..thats right allowed..it was preventable and it happened on there watch..they politicized it to the hilt ..and started this disaster of a war..their legacy will be one of total failure and corruption...i know of no one that i admire that respects either one of them..and you saying so doesn't mean a fucking thing...
Posted by dennis at August 15, 2007 01:16 PMRepub view: Rove = genius.
Historical reality: Rove = crook who got lucky in 2 close ones thanks to butterfly ballots, voter apathy, dirty tricks, SCOTUS and Diebold.
Posted by TIKI AL at August 15, 2007 01:28 PMOn 2000 punchcard ballots - see Rather's report:
scroll down towards the end where he looks at this.
Something ugly went down that year - definitely in Palm Beach Co - and perhaps throughout the country. However, it will take more investigation and paper ballot testing to see if it was merely cost cutting at Sequoia which wouldn't have favored either candidate or deliberate manipulation.
This does begin to explain why punchcard ballots suddenly became a significant problem in 2000 after being used for decades.
Posted by Marie at August 15, 2007 01:45 PMgotta chuckle: the media is announcing that the White House, not General on the Ground Petraeus, will actually write his "report" on Iraq. Was that not clear from the start? Did anyone actually believe that Pet was gonna write this political document? I will tell you exactly what Karl Rove will be doing until the 31st of August...
Posted by T2 at August 15, 2007 01:46 PMPetraeus will be there in front of Congress to be questioned. He will have his voice heard and respond to the questions personally. A written report verses the personal appearance. Which one carries more weight? I'd say the personal touch will sway the crowd, not the report.
He is our "Grant".
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 04:55 PMThe day Rove resigned, not one of the the major evening news shows made the slightest reference to the following: Rove's intention was to create a single-party government with the intent of ruling the world. How can you miss that?
With all due respect to the contributors to TLC...I think you are throwing Petraeus under the bus prematurely. I know Petraeus to be a man of honor and integrity and I cling to the belief that he would rather resign than be a puppet to the Bush adminisration in September. Time will tell.
Posted by Roy Batty at August 15, 2007 05:28 PMHere here Roy, General David Petraeus is our Grant. He is the real deal.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 06:26 PM""Americans viewed Petraeus as a much more reliable source than any of the other 16 leaders listed in the poll, including President Bush, members of the Bush administration, and leading Republican and Democratic presidential candidates," Gallup reports today.
"These results help explain why a majority of Americans, 56%, say Congress should not develop a new policy on Iraq until September when Petraeus reports on the progress of the U.S. troop surge.""
Gallup
I see Democrats in Congress paid attention and for the most part stopped trying to lose this war.
Are you telling me that the American people haven't caught on yet that anyone who works for Bush or reports to Bush is his patsey? Furthermore, I don't believe anything the Gallup Poll has to offer in the way of statistics.
'No one every lost money under estimating the intelligence of the American people' comes to mind about now.
Posted by Judith at August 15, 2007 08:39 PMNo you don't peter, you're not going to get away with it!
Betraeus will not be using his own words, they will be scripted, right from the White House!!
Now stop lying on this blog!!
Remember that September report on Iraq coming out to congress?
Despite Bush's repeated statements that the report will reflect evaluations by Petraeus and Ryan Crocker...administration officials said it would actually be written by the White House, with inputs from officials throughout the government.
Please, let's send this to every Democrat in Congress so they know in advance where the Iraqi report talking points came from!!!
Certainly not from Betraeus!!
Posted by Seven of Six at August 15, 2007 08:44 PMWhat am I trying to get away with. The report is written by the WH. What's to get away with there? He's going to appear before Congress, before the House and the Senate. What am I trying to get away with there? He will speak, no arm in the back moving his lips. No speaker placed in his mouth playing what they want you to hear. He will speak and answer questions by those there. I don't know who Roy is, he seems to know this General. The Senate sent him there for this mission with an 81 to 0 send off. They seem to have confidence in him. All of them by no one voting against him, not even Sen. Sanders from Vermont.
Not lying or misinforming anyone. He's going to speak his own words from his own point of view period. He's going to represent his fellow generals in the field and their thoughts. He's going to represent all of our heroes volunteering in Iraq. HIS words, HIS feelings, HIS opinions. Try something else Seven, respectfully.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 09:36 PMHIS words, HIS feelings, HIS opinions.
Let's try the truth peter!
The White House words, the White House feelings, their opinions.
I would welcome Betraeus to say his own words, but I'm afraid he's a soldier first. Taking orders if you know what I mean.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 15, 2007 10:07 PMHIS words, HIS feelings, HIS opinions.
You don't get to be a senior-ranking Pentagon general by speaking your mind, doubly so under this tell-me-sweet-little-lies, head-in-the-sand administration.
We've seen too many military figures fired or pushed into retirement (Shinseki, Taguba) for telling uncomfortable truths in the last few years.
The authoritarian thugs in power are Soviet-like in their demand for ideological obedience and parroting the Party Line.
Posted by Mike G at August 15, 2007 11:31 PMHe's going to appear before Congress, before the House and the Senate. What am I trying to get away with there? He will speak, no arm in the back moving his lips. No speaker placed in his mouth playing what they want you to hear. He will speak and answer questions by those there.
Oh peter, you made a fool of yourself. You counted on your pResident to let Petraeus testify! I suggest you write the pResident in protest. You were so proud...only to be decieved. LOL
So did you catch this in the WaPo peter:
Senior congressional aides said yesterday that the White House has proposed limiting the much-anticipated appearance on Capitol Hill next month of Gen. David H. Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker to a private congressional briefing, suggesting instead that the Bush administration's progress report on the Iraq war should be delivered to Congress by the secretaries of state and defense.
Not even a public briefing!
Come on, defend it peter...I'm waiting.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 16, 2007 08:03 AMSeven, you are far too good a man to bother yourself with this idiot.
Posted by tempus at August 16, 2007 07:58 PM