"She's not like a fresh and new character. She's someone who has been essentially known to the American people for 16 years. It's going to be hard to change the perceptions that people have had," he said.
I love it when Karl Rove speaks for me. Or for anyone else, come to think of it.
Sounds like the smear campaign has already begun.
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 15, 2007 02:19 PMA move of 6 points in the right direction is better than a move in the other direction, but that doesn't negate what Rove said. Not at all, 43% negative isn't good period. In the twenties, sure.
B. Obama sure seems to be showing his lack of exposure to many things. He's losing his message of hope rapidly. Maybe that's what HC has done to him since the youtube/CNN exposure. He now seems like any other politician, not special like JFK. His ability to win the general has surely been dealt a blow, a significant one at that.
John Edwards is melting away. You hear more from Elizabeth than the candidate right now.
I like the comparison of EE to THK, that's a good one. She is starting to screech a little.
So what's not true about Rove's perceptions? She has been around for a long time. We only met Obama a few years ago and Edwards a couple more than that. Have you looked into Huckabee yet? Know anything about his wife? More RDS showing there MV.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 02:45 PMPeter you are going to very dissapointed in 2008.
Posted by Gene at August 15, 2007 03:08 PM...but it's also difficult not to hear a little Teresa Heinz Kerry here.
Why not - ... but it's also difficult not to hear a little Hillary Rodham Clinton here --?
At least we'll never have to see Elizabeth acting like a faux doting wife doormat defending her husband against charges of infidelity which she knew were true (and far more frequent than what the public heard about).
Posted by Marie at August 15, 2007 03:11 PMHe isn't saying which GOP candidate he will get behind...
Mitt Romney. Trust me, it's Mitt Romney.
Posted by Christopher at August 15, 2007 03:32 PMA "right wing conspiracy" comes to mind. Is that what you mean Marie?
Gene, we'll see. I will be here that November Wednesday, 2008, God willing.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 03:33 PMChristopher, I'm looking at Giuliani and Huckabee, but Mitt's ok.
Giuliani wins period.
Huckabee is so much closer to where I am. Another man from Hope, Great guy, during reconstruction on the Arkansas governor’s mansion, the Huckabees (he’s been married to his high school sweetheart for 33 years) lived proudly in a trailer to save the taxpayers money. Huckabee’s the first member of his family ever to graduate from high school. Huckabee earned his degree (in two-and-a-half years) from Ouachita Baptist University. He's not a Skull and Bones guy! Speaking of double-wides…. his recent loss of 110 pounds (and completion of numerous grueling marathons) helps him connect with the American majority that fights the daily battle of the bulge.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 03:44 PMMuch turns on what you think the economy will look like at the top of the year.
So far, since the dow hit 14k, each week has seen a 2 to 3 percent decline in all three of the big indices.
Dow is below 13 and headed lower, nasdaq is below 2500 and staying there and the broader bell weather S+P 500 is heading below 1400.
The daily trade pattern has been amazingly consistent, desperate rallies are eaten by more anxious sell offs and then in the final hour, the huge institutional houses clear their books and huge drops ensue.
Home sales now stand at a 16 year low as foreclosures spike to new highs and it's only august.
The Yen is getting stronger and headed below 117 for good and this causes huge disruptive sell offs, it has been the most reliable indicator.
The contagion is beginning to spread to unlikely places. A huge money market fund is now in trouble and has suspended dividends.
This is the ace. Who will the public turn their wrath on when their self made debt bombs blow up?
And who will they turn to for help? What is the likelihood that the GOP Junta will escape all blame? What is the likelihood that they'll have much confidence in the Junta that fed the mess?
And then we have Iraq which gets reliably worse. I'm still keeping an eye on the other big shoe drop, a large coordinated insurgency version of a Tet offensive, a huge counter surge that throws the US forces into panic mode.
It's funny, we need some modeling capability to factor in known oncoming hazards like looming recession along with curve ball hazards like another category 5 gulf hurricane and or a big debacle in Iraq aid or Afghanistan. Then what?
Most of the lazy plagiarized troll wind of late rests on shifting sands of the past with ostrich head well buried.
The horizon is less comforting for all, especially the Junta.
It's a pity the poll researchers can't devise more interesting questions like: "If your debt bomb blows up and you end up living with your family in a car or under a bridge would you favor the Democratic or Republican nominee?"
So as we toss all this back and forth based on WHAT NOW IS rather than WHAT LIKELY WILL BE, a bit of graveyard whistling hope from the buffoon trolls is understandable and kind of mawkish comic relief.
Posted by Chris Rich at August 15, 2007 03:49 PMChris Rich, It seems to me if all is as you say, you'd want to avoid it. Get behind this president and urge action. Try supporting him for once. Get Democrats to support him. Get things done to fix the problems you map out. Opposition has it's responsibilities too. Get your side to join with my side and get things done FOR America. Quit calling names and talk. If your side doesn't have the votes as we keep hearing. Merge with my side on something, anything, show the people a willingness to move on. Your, Democrats are the majority. They run things up there. They need to help this president and work for us for a change.
I'm more than happy to provide comic relief here, but, that doesn't help our country move on. I'm for moving on and making progress. You game?
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 04:18 PMMore RDS showing there MV.
More what? My WHAT is showing??
What's not true about the statement is when Rove speaks of how it will be "hard to change the perceptions that people have had".
I don't like it when a guy pretends to know the perceptions of others. I have my perception, Rove has his. As does every individual person.
This is the kind of vague collectivist reference that we will get really tired of hearing. "Oh, that Hillary. She's got a bad rep! People think she's a ballbuster!"
Fuck all that. Is she qualified for the job or not? If not, who else you got?
When people speak of the perception that she's this or that, it's a not-so-subtle Fox Noise way of speaking for people they don't know and haven't heard.
And I still don't know what RDS stands for!! 8)
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 15, 2007 05:04 PMRove Derangement Syndrome.
We have seen her an awful lot and we have developed a perception good or bad of who she is and what she's about. Some of the others are more recently on the scene. We are still developing a perception. I wonder if the rule of 14 applies to her? Maybe not.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 05:26 PMBusy little imbecile, I usually read his posts to an Elmer Fudd or Daffy Duck voice in my minds ear as it fits Elmer Troll Repugnican forever stalking that wascewwy wabbit and missing all the shots.
Then it also has that facet of Wiley Coyote hovering in mid air for a few sad moments before the plunge.
But most of the time I just glimpse at the wooden writing, the eyeglaze aspect and the parrot factor and scroll ahead to see what comic koan gems Tiki Al has or what Judith and Seven are up to, how Phid, Euz and Christopher are and will some bickering with Coyote ensue.
This poor boob isn't as psycho as scout and the daily spam plaster is like some drunk bore crashing the party to yap about real estate deals.
Posted by Chris Rich at August 15, 2007 05:33 PMthis is fast becoming The Peter Coaster. A ride I don't want to take.
I'm sure Rove is going to get behind somebody....Gannon?
Perhaps you should expand on your THK statement. I have never heard Teresa make snarky comments about anybody except Republicans, and half the time her words were misrepresentend. She has the greatest love and respect for people from all sorts of backgrounds, it comes from growing up in an impoverished dictatorship. You would never catch her wasting her time with such small-minded pettiness.
Posted by Sandy at August 15, 2007 05:47 PMChris Rich, I had hopes, but you've got it bad. Your case of both BDS and RDS won't let you see a way past them. You're willing to let us go down this path you've highlighted for the next 16 months and hope for the next admin. Ted Kennedy did something similar with education back in the 70's and found out it took Bush's NCLB to get something done again. Nothing got done, our education system kept getting worse, and our competition passed us by. Our Teachers unions kept supporting Democrats as our education system kept getting worse from one admin to another.
Want to fix things, do it with who we have, not who we hope to have. Get your Congressmen and women to work WITH the admin, not against it. If you're correct with what you've laid out. This has to happen period. Name calling will surely work here won't it.
Posted by peter at August 15, 2007 06:17 PMGet your side to join with my side and get things done FOR America.
-UhSqueee, Squoooosh, UhSqueee, Squoooosh- "Come to the dark side, Chris Rich." -UhSqueee, Squoooosh- "Join me, and together we shall rule the Universe!"
Posted by phidipides at August 15, 2007 06:20 PMRove Derangement Syndrome.
Oh, so it's a funny little ackronym that you came up with? And then, like, you tell people they have it and they're like, "What's that?" and then you're like totally set up for the tee-hee punchline and you go, "ROVE DERANGEMENT SYNDROME" and then they pee their pants with uproarious laughter? Okay. We're on the same page now.
We have seen her an awful lot and we have developed a perception good or bad of who she is and what she's about.
Doesn't this sound like the dialog from a Twilight Zone episode, spoken by the one member of the alien race that can translate?
"We have observed the earthling subject. Water flows from her eyes. It is illogical."
WE haven't done anything, chuckles. You have a perception, as do I. They don't have to be remotely alike -- that's what's so great about being an individual.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Phid, you rock!
Did you ever get the sense this earnest Elmer Fudd woodenness is like some grim chore or hazing ritual? GOP apparatchiks fobbed off this dolt in training on us because even they figure he's a hopeless infantile flyweight.
"Here, boob junior, go bother this small charming reality blog and if you're real good we'll let you write press releases for Trudy and Mutt. We'll even pay you ten cents a word and all the pork rinds you can eat."
Posted by Chris Rich at August 15, 2007 06:35 PMChristopher, I'm looking at Giuliani and Huckabee, but Mitt's ok.
All of them are GOP chickenhawks.
Guiliani married his cousin and then shacked up with his honey whilst married to his second wife.
Mitt is a member of a cult religion and equates his son's working on his campaign with military service to his country.
Huckabee is a rightwing, religious kook.
Yep, sounds like the GOP! LMAO!
Posted by Christopher at August 15, 2007 06:44 PMListening to NPR today, the general feeling is that candidates for the GOP do not want Rove involved in their campaigns in anyway. "Toxic" was the word used. That doesn't mean he will not be controlling the smear campaigns and dirty tricks for the GOP.
For a man who "wants to spend more time with the family", Rove had time to stop off and see Rush first.
Posted by Judith at August 15, 2007 07:32 PMAnd then we have Iraq which gets reliably worse. I'm still keeping an eye on the other big shoe drop, a large coordinated insurgency version of a Tet offensive, a huge counter surge that throws the US forces into panic mode.
Chris, My buddy Lurch, at Main and Central, has a post up about the bridges in Iraq that are being strategically and systematically knocked out.
It might very well have something to do with that "large coordinated insurgency" your hinting at.
Get behind this president and urge action.
We are, urging him to resign.
Try supporting him for once.
Unfortunately, he has had 6.5 years to get it right and has screwed it all up!
Get Democrats to support him. Get things done to fix the problems you map out. Opposition has it's responsibilities too.
They are supporting him. Does FISA ring a bell.
Get your side to join with my side and get things done FOR America.
And "Dick" and the repukes had 6 years to work with us and literally told us to go fuck ourselves.
Sorry peter, you're out of chances.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 15, 2007 07:46 PMYeah SOS, that would make sense. If you want to hamstring a big clumsy opponent that depends on a road grid to move around, the first phase would be taking out the choke points. 'Canalizing' is a common tactical military term.
This in turn reinforces the action initiative. The US forces lost all initiative soon after they invaded and have been stuck in a reactive posture ever since. This is not a good thing.
And remember, the key is the Brit garrison at Basra as it guards the main supply corridor. Gordon Brown is under some pressure to wind Brit presence down and that garrison is fairly vulnerable now.
If Baath and Shiite elements finally make an accord and unite, that's it, game over. As it is, the Shiites are fighting the US nearly as much as the Sunnis.
Posted by Chris Rich at August 15, 2007 07:54 PMRight Chris, as it sits now we are working with the Saudi's to pay the Sunnis to be friends, along with letting out tribal leaders family members. Then arming them! Some strategy.
They will hold the bullets from hitting our troops for only so long.
While in the south, Shia against Shia are going at.
And the latest disaster, the bombing in the north. The worst since the invasion started.
And which of the tribes in Iraq actually likes us??
My, how the U.S. media wants to continue to paint the rosey picture. I have to obtain my information from overseas media outlets.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 15, 2007 08:10 PMChris Rich, watch out for Phidipides. He will be incorporating you into some far fetched story if your not careful. By-the-way, he loves wearing grass skirts and coconut boobs while dancing to Don Ho records.
Posted by Judith at August 15, 2007 08:17 PMSpeaking of Iamcoyote, where has she been?
Posted by Judith at August 15, 2007 08:21 PMAw that's okay. I'm far away in Bedford listening to nighthawk rasp and cricket chirp across the street from a Norman Rockwell village common fronting a church built in 1816.
It's a common where militia mustered before a short march to Concord back in the day to turn another George away and launch this grand thing now choking on its own deranged greed.
I'm more likely to pogo around listening to the Buzzcocks loud while sipping scotch. It would never work.
Posted by Chris Rich at August 15, 2007 08:31 PMBy-the-way, he loves wearing grass skirts and coconut boobs while dancing to Don Ho records.
I will never live down the last TLC convention in Maui!
He will be incorporating you into some far fetched story if your not careful.
I feel impugned.
Did I tell you about the time we had the TLC convention in Vladivostok? Judith got us all shredded on vodka. So Chris starts doing this dead-on Reagan impression and Judith grabed a large ripe plum, smashed it on her forehead and did an impression of Gorbachev. They unilaterally disarmed somewhere along the way. The last I saw of Judith she was doing that cossack dance with some buff young Russian guy she kept calling "Comrade".
Posted by phidipides at August 15, 2007 11:28 PMYou linked to FOX"news" for your editorialized Edwards slam in that post, Dinelli. Nice touch. Goddamn, you people truly are Clinton hacks now. Enjoy your thirty pieces of silver.
Rove, for all his evilness, is right about Your Girl. She's fatally flawed. Tell me, Clintonistas, which states will she win that Kerry lost?
Ohio? Florida? Highly doubtful. And she'd have to win there, because she won't be picking up any states in the west, midwest, or south.
And, right on cue, the Rove-respecting (their words) Clinton campaign goes for some Rovian spin of their own, claiming strength out of weakness, as Hillary declares herself as the most electable Democrat, and speaks in front of banners sporting Orwellian slogans.
Fuck, she IS Bush Lite! Obama's got her nailed. Perhaps creepy little Howard Wolfson can repeat his robotic mantra again today about how Obama isn't engaging in the politics of hope. THAT hasn't grown old. Gotta stay on message, though, because that's the Rovian way.
The Democrats will probably nominate Your Girl. And she'll "shockingly" lose to the GOP hack. And I'll laugh at you, because really, and let's be honest, what the fuck do I care? I'm a straight, white, highly educated Christain male, and the black GOP rain ain't gonna fall too hard on me.
OK, carry on with your self-destruction. It's fairly amusing. And by all means take heart in that NY-based Q poll, they have such a brilliant track record.
Posted by God Of War at August 16, 2007 06:19 AM"The last I saw of Judith she was doing that cossack dance with some buff young Russian guy she kept calling "Comrade".
There you go again Phidipides. As usual, you didn't get the story straight. I wasn't calling him "comrade," I was saying "come Rade." Rade was his name. Jeez! (I could get really 'blue' here, but I won't).
GOD OF WAR, WHO ARE YOU VOTING FOR??
WHO ARE YOU VOTING FOR??
WHO ARE YOU VOTING FOR??
Answer the question, you highly educated straight Christian male you!!!
And what's the Orwellian slogan she had on the banner?
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 16, 2007 07:33 AMMaskedPussylante,
I'm not voting for Your Girl, and that's all you need to know. I'll be supporting Edwards or Obama.
In fact, I'm going to do everything I can to bring Your Girl down and save your sorry ass from a GOP President in 2008. How's that make you feel? She said she respects Rove, so hey, fuck it. Let's play ball.
Oh, for the record...Your Girl is down 7 to Ghouliani in the latest Rasmussen.
Posted by God Of War at August 16, 2007 08:29 AMHighly educated white Christian straight male,
At least you finally answered the question. And if you seriously think Edwards or Obama has a chance at winning the nomination, let alone the election, well, best of luck to you.
So, in November 2008 will you meet me here so you can kiss my sweet black cyber-ass and admit you were wrong and I was right? Or will you still be busy tearing the Democratic Party apart from within?
For a highly educated white straight Christian male, you're awfully lacking in foresight. Nevertheless, I find you amusing.
Although "Masked Asshole" at least got a chuckle out of me. "Masked Pussylante" is kinda weak.
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 16, 2007 08:52 AMYou stupid little shill.
Your Girl can go ahead and kiss your sweet black ass, because she'll be needing some affection after she !shockingly! loses to the GOP hack.
She's fucking doomed, as the most likable candidate always wins (and she's last on that count). Godspeed, and fuck off for what you're doing to the party.
Oh, and if she does happen to lose the nomination as Democrats decide to forgo grasping defeat from the jaws of victory, I'll be here jamming that shit sandwich down your vapid, uninformed, foresight-lacking throat.
Posted by God Of War at August 16, 2007 09:26 AMI was saying "come Rade." Rade was his name. Jeez! (I could get really 'blue' here, but I won't).
ROFLMAO!
Fuck, she IS Bush Lite!
Exactly. She even has her cult of personality built up so that many Dems do that republi-con mantra of "Supporting Hillary is supporting the Dems, so ignore her record and support her" rather than "Hillary's record supports Dem ideals and she has EARNED your vote."
Posted by phidipides at August 16, 2007 09:49 AMYou stupid little shill.
I always like an opener like that. So succinct. So direct. Must be the benefit of being so highly educated.
She's fucking doomed, as the most likable candidate always wins (and she's last on that count).
Obama may win the popularity contest, but it's because of what people project onto him; not because of anything substantial.
I'll be here jamming that shit sandwich down your vapid, uninformed, foresight-lacking throat.
Oh, stop flirting with me, Ares. You're wasting your time when it's clear that you have a love connection with idiosynchronic, the Meg Ryan to your "You've Got Mail" Tom Hanks.
As usual, GoW picks up on my thoughts telepathically. (I'd really like to meet you sometime.)
That's an IN, baby. Remember, you are a straight, white, highly educated Christian male! But don't let romance get in the way of your Hillary bashing. The future is yours to save, after all.
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 16, 2007 11:19 AMsome pretty clever and funny stuff on this thread...judith..loved your joke...
i think hillary can win..and if it's guiliani she'll peel him like a grape...if gore doesn't enter..she will be the nominee..and she will win
Posted by dennis at August 16, 2007 01:29 PMOh shucks Dennis, Phidipides always gives me an opening.
We are just a wild and crazy group here. Gotta have some fun now and then, as life is so serious these days.
Posted by Judith at August 16, 2007 02:40 PMWell, I must admit, with turdblossom gone, I have to take that 'tin foil hat' off about martial law coming.
Whew, I was getting worried!
Now, I just have to worry about cheney bombing the shit out of Iran.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 16, 2007 03:04 PMyou're right judith..you gotta be able to laugh a bit..the way this administration has fucked things up..if it weren't so serious ..it would be funny..
Posted by dennis at August 17, 2007 03:55 AM