"Though many Democratic leaders opposed the final version of the legislation, they did not work forcefully to block its passage, largely out of fear that they would be criticized by President Bush and Republican leaders during the August recess as being soft on terrorism."
Soccerdad, If that be true, which I am sure it is, then the Democrats will sell out American citizens as long as they don't get criticized by the GOP. You know what, they don't deserve my vote. COMPLICITY? GUILTY.
Here is what the N.Y. Times says:
Broad new surveillance powers approved by Congress this month could allow the Bush administration to conduct spy operations that go well beyond wiretapping to include — without court approval — certain types of physical searches of American citizens and the collection of their business records, Democratic Congressional officials and other experts said.
House Approves Changes in Eavesdropping (August 5, 2007) Administration officials acknowledged that they had heard such concerns from Democrats in Congress recently, and that there was a continuing debate over the meaning of the legislative language. But they said the Democrats were simply raising theoretical questions based on a harsh interpretation of the legislation.
They also emphasized that there would be strict rules in place to minimize the extent to which Americans would be caught up in the surveillance.
I can no longer make excuses in my own mind for the Democrats. They are not an opposition Party, indeed they are just the opposite. They have given GWB, Mr. 25%, absolutely everything he wants and without as much as a fight. It's about time we woke up and faced the truth. They have participated and endorsed wrongful and illegal acts by Bush. Phidipides, you have been right all along.
Posted by Judith at August 18, 2007 06:59 PM...why Speaker Pelosi and crew did not simply insist on that course of action.
Because Princess Sparkle Pelosi and the rest of her crew don't give a rats ass about the Constitution. Nancy gives a rats ass about the money given to her by AT&T...and she whores to AT&T really cheap, really really cheap! It would take a hell of a lot more money than she took to get me to sell my Constitutional rights.
She can botox the hell out of herself. She can get her skin pulled so tight she looks like a living example of "The Scream". When I see her all I can think of is a slutty skank hosebag with a massive herpes outbreak on her lips and vaginal warts from the corrupt money that's been packed in her nasty puss encrusted "thang".
Phidipides, you have been right all along.
Handsome, too!
Judith, you said the same stuff I've been saying before I did. You too have been correct all along. We all had pretty high hopes for this Congress. Too bad they failed so miserably.
Democrats have done this stuff before. What they have not had before is the Democracy, the Townhall our Founding Fathers spoke of, of the blogs. There is real possibility for change through this vehicle. I hope the blog lords out there take their responsibility seriously. If change can't be secured through the blogs then it is pretty well over. These things really are our last best hope.
I also hope that Jeff Dinelli guy asks Kucinich to come around these parts and talk about his platform. I hope he asks the other candidates. And there are many fine Democrats running against DINOs who I hope can find a voice here.
Posted by phidipides at August 18, 2007 07:31 PMGod what morons.
DiFi was never really a Democrat. She's a war profiteering DINO. Now Jim Webb was a surprise and a major disappointment.
Posted by Christopher at August 18, 2007 08:08 PMLet's think this through just a bit more. First, the WH used the same MO for this bill as they did the IWR by dropping it on Congress right before they wanted to get out of town. That alone should have been the red flag. That time around, the House could do nothing to stop it, but Pelosi and many House DEMs voted against it. The Senate was were it could have been stopped. However, with fine Senators like Hillary and Edwards sceaming for the blood of Saddam, as well as House minority leader Gephardt pledging his support for it to GWB before he'd even requested the authorization, Daschle didn't have a chance if he'd been so inclined to scuttle it.
This time it could have been stopped in either chamber. Offer the WH the bill they had worked on or "see you in September." The problem for Reid and Pelosi is that they seem incapable of making a simple rational case to rebut GOP and WH demands. Why was it so difficult for all of them to get out there and say 1) we've spent months working with the WH on a good bill and now they don't want it and 2) legislatures cannot pass complex new bills overnight. That's hows bad legislation is done, and we're not going to do it regardless of how much the WH whines, threatens or pouts. If the WH doesn't want the carefully crafted bill that we put together, then our staffs will begin the process of analyzing the one the WH has requested and we'll act on it when we know what's in it.
Then a few of their staff attorneys would have had to get to work and Reid and Pelosi should have issued press releases each day that an objectionable provision was identified.
Pelosi was kind of stuck when Reid didn't bother to catch her back. Instead of whining about his difficult majority position, he should secure the 49 votes he has. Used the filibuster if necessary. Bought enough time to give Nancy some cover. At a minimum, made sure the thing passed with no more than the GOP plus Lieberman.
Can't say that I'm impressed with Pelosi but she might be much better if the Senate had a stronger majority leader. A leader that would remind Mr. Lieberman that he's not going to enjoy being a part of the minority in less than two years if he persists in acting like GWB's flunkie.
Posted by Marie at August 18, 2007 09:23 PM
The Democrats were "duped". That's the cry, "we were duped". Seems Democrats always do the "duping". They love to dupe the electorate. Their electorate is so easily "duped". And y'all call the GOP bad citizens. Many of these people never cast a responsible vote. They just follow the bouncing ball. "My father was a Democrat, my grandfather was a Democrat, as far back as I can remember, our family voted Democrat. That's why I vote Democrat." They just assume Democrats will do the right thing. Wake up folks, they don't.
Did you ever think maybe HC wants this authority if she gets into office. Maybe she's complicit in getting princess sparkle to allow this to make it to the floor. She can campaign against it and if she gets elected. "It's there, why don't I use it." "I like this new expanded FISA, we need to keep it."
Posted by peter at August 18, 2007 09:27 PMIf the Democrats wanted to protect the country and its citizens as soon as Congress is back in session they would introduce a bill to repeal this monstrosity and in simple language modify FISA for the new technology that it doesn't adequately cover.
But they won't.
They're too cowardly and too corrupt.
Posted by clio at August 18, 2007 11:03 PMWell Clio, they are more concerned about appearances than substance it seems.
Posted by Judith at August 19, 2007 04:54 AMPeter, as far as I am concerned, I are not interested in your take on Democrats.
Posted by Judith at August 19, 2007 04:58 AMDoes anyone know more about this? Someone mentioned this here a while back.
Secret FEMA Plan To Use Pastors as Pacifiers in Preparation For Martial Law:
Nationwide initiative trains volunteers to teach congregations to "obey the government" during seizure of guns, property, forced inoculations and forced relocation.
A Pastor has come forward to blow the whistle on a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.
It falls under the umbrella of the NVOAD program which is training volunteers in a "Peer to Peer" program in a neighborhood setting. The program is disquised as a disaster relief program.
The precedent for mass gun confiscation in times of real or manufactured emergency was set during Hurricane Katrina when police and national guard patrols forced homeowners even in areas unaffected by the hurricane to hand over their legally owned firearms at gunpoint.
FEMA's deliberate sabotage of Hurricane Katrina relief efforts which were used as a platform for a beat test of forced relocation and gun confiscation.
Posted by Judith at August 19, 2007 05:15 AMhttp://www.nvoad.org/
Posted by Judith at August 19, 2007 05:17 AMThe Democratic portion of the national security elite craves these powers as intensely as the Republicans. They merely present a less primitive, brutal facade.
It's not that difficult to contact one's People's Deputy demanding post-recess hearings with subpoenas for all related White House and Justice Dept. documents and for the FISA Court's opinion on wiretapping and surveillance to be made public.
Don't forget to thank them for all the good work they've done on our behalf.
Posted by Pvt. Keepout at August 19, 2007 06:21 AMSeveral legal experts said that by redefining the meaning of “electronic surveillance,” the new law [... indirectly gives ...] the power to use intelligence collection methods far beyond wiretapping that previously required court approval if conducted inside the United States.
Unbelievable. The Dems were "duped" by this? And this news coming on the heels of leadership admitting they were "snookered" on other Rethug victories and -- I love this one from Schumer -- "hoodwinked" on giving up two, count'em, TWO SCOTUS seats to hard right activist extremists without so much as a peep.
But hey, it's well worth it to toss all these constitutional rights into the fire if Meanie Repugs that have been giving Dems an unapologetic quarter-century beat-downwould suddenly stop -- this time out of thousands -- and be nice to D'Aristocrats.
Because a universally loathed worst administration in history calling the Dems big fat wussies in the hallowed halls of Congress would be even worse than a nasty note passed around in the Senate gym.
The Dems and I have finally have a level of mutual disinterest in each others' concerns.
This horse race slash posedown thing that's taking up all their focus now isn't what I signed up for.
Stop the war and restore constitutional govt? (Whatever it takes.) Bust my hump so the Dems can pander to a crazed despotic Republicult and theofascist rule? (Not on my dime.)
Posted by Ellie at August 19, 2007 07:37 AMNo leadership or complicity?
Complicity. Democrats are just Republicans with a different name. Both are Corporatisis, interested only in their own reelection and in taking sufficient money (brides) to assure that goal.
Somebody dig up RFK, please!
Posted by tempus at August 19, 2007 08:49 AM"SCARED?" Hey Congress, which is more scary?
GOP calling you names, or living under a Fascist Rule? Remember something, you will be the first to go, you and your families.
Posted by Judith at August 19, 2007 01:38 PM