eriposte
a very insightful and meaningful post..i wish more here were more cognizant of how slow and hard change can be in this political environment..so much has happened since 9/11 and there is much work to be done..i believe that it will
Posted by dennis at August 22, 2007 06:42 AMIt seems to me that both parties are filled with corporatists who have sold out and are beholden to lobby interests, corporate as well as foreign national. Additionally, so much sleaze has been partially exposed, I have to wonder now many of our representatives in CONgress are having some sexual dalliance or financial impropriety held over their head in blackmailing schemes.
America has been effectively divided into the imposed and false choice "red and blue". In the constitutionally challenging times which we live, the future of this country could ride on whether we return to constitutional adherence. Wouldn't that be better than the BushCO/Clinton,INC organized crime syndicate running things, rewriting constitutional interpretation as they go?
I was driving in Madison, WI the other day and saw a blue RON PAUL '08 bumper sticker on a car in traffic. After exchanging a thumbs up with the driver, I wondered how many liberal minded Madisonians would get past the knee-jerk, wedge issues and support a constitutionalist and principaled conservative for President. Judging by Paul's reception from Bill Maher's Realtime studio audience, there may be quite a few.
Posted by brisa at August 22, 2007 07:02 AMHear fookin hear, e!
Posted by Duckman GR at August 22, 2007 07:05 AM"Some positive change has been engineered by the Democratic Congress but lasting change takes time and effort."
Well, it only took the Republicans less than five years to make lasting changes (with Democratic help, of course.)
Respectfully, I see this as just another excuse. Look, either you believe in the Constitution and support freedom, or you don't, period. No excuses.
Posted by Judith at August 22, 2007 07:09 AMRon Paul? Yeah, right.
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/06/08/ron-paul-vs-the-new-world-order
Judith,
You response is not quite fair because I am not making excuses. I'm saying that those who shred the Constitution and cave on Iraq need to be held accountable but those who showed good behavior should be acknowledged - especially since the majority of Dems have generally stuck to progressive and mainstream positions. I'm not sure why you got a different impression.
Posted by eriposte at August 22, 2007 07:16 AMThe bottom line is that we have two legitimate choices. Democrat or GOPer. It might be great to have six or seven parties, like the Iraqis, or not. We have two. The country has seen what a GOPer driven government does. Like it or not, the Democratic Party is the other choice. It is a party of inclusiveness and wide viewpoints. The GOP is a party of white people with a narrow,regimented view. Choose, and shut up.
Posted by T2 at August 22, 2007 07:18 AMJust 18% of Americans approve of the job Congress is doing. Congress' approval is now lower than Bush and firmly in Cheney territory. Let's hope this doesn't translate into a backlash in 2008.
Posted by Christopher at August 22, 2007 07:39 AMThe problem with this is Republicans have also polled more negative and closer to the indi's polled than Democrats. Democrats seem to like Congress more. If we are achieving a positive result by stopping legislation, shouldn't we poll more positive than Democrats?
Democrats run the place, they bought it, if it's broke, they broke it. Looks like you're engaging in nuance here. The ID numbers for Democrats have been falling since last years election. The dissatisfaction expressed here isn't with Republicans, they expect them to act like they do. The dissatisfaction is with Democrats.
The Rasmussen poll referenced has HC trailing Giuliani by 7 points. The same people that poll Dems up by 10 points favor Giuliani. This should be troubling for a Party that wants the people to go against the divided government they desired through last years election and elect a Democratic president.
The money, show me the money, would seem to say some are on the sidelines waiting for Fred to get in the race. Arkansas is a "solid red state" with a Democratic governor, two Democratic senators and voted for Clinton in the two presidential elections prior?
More cheerleading, get the pom poms out.
Posted by peter at August 22, 2007 07:50 AMSorry - but I just have to laugh at you fools who support the Dems. Both parties are war parties. I will not support either. I do not support imperialists and both are just that. What do we do? I tell you what we don't do- we don't support our enemy.
Posted by jj at August 22, 2007 07:54 AM"It is a party of inclusiveness and wide viewpoints. The GOP is a party of white people with a narrow,regimented view. Choose, and shut up."
This speaks for the progressive movement that wants anyone not helping their cause ousted for having a wide viewpoint. And from this month's YK, a group definately lacking very much diversity. Talk about a narrow, regimented view. They very much want you to choose and shut up.
Posted by peter at August 22, 2007 07:55 AMDemocrats are leaderless, spineless, gutless and clueless. Barbara W. Tuchman, "The March of Folly, from Troy to Vietnam", would have a hey day with the rove, bush, cheney years, but running a close second would be those leaderless, spineless, gutless and clueless democrats. cleve
Posted by cleve at August 22, 2007 07:59 AMLike it or not, the Democratic Party is the other choice. It is a party of inclusiveness and wide viewpoints.
So right T2, and it will only be through a Democratic majority that Progressives will make headway.
One thing is certain, we can never let the neo-con agenda run this country into the ground again!
Yes, positive things have been done, and change is slow, good to know there are progressives who can see that.
The problem with "Bush dogs" is that they are by and large from the South, the only place in America where the GOP really has Hegemony over all politics. It's no surprise that given these political realities, these folks tend to be more conservative. It's really a question of whether or not having the majority means anything or not, because in order to have it, you're going to need the "Bush Dogs".
The real problem here is the GOP, period.
Posted by John Rogers at August 22, 2007 08:05 AMIs Rep. Baird a "Bush Dog" now? Seems coming from Washington state, a Kerry, Gore, and Clinton state doesn't fit the mold.
I guess we're adding to our numbers every day.
Posted by peter at August 22, 2007 08:11 AMT2
Your "choose and shut up" sounds like coyote.
The problem with this is Republicans have also polled more negative and closer to the indi's polled than Democrats. Democrats seem to like Congress more. If we are achieving a positive result by stopping legislation, shouldn't we poll more positive than Democrats?
Just add your link peter, maybe we'll listen.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 22, 2007 08:42 AMRead the gallup poll, it's free for all. Did you ask Christopher for his link? Same poll, nothing different.
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=28456
Posted by peter at August 22, 2007 08:55 AMeriposte, brilliant, as always. And I agree that it will be a long road to reclaim the Democratic Party from the Blue Dogs - it's good to see there are progressives who understand that and are getting to work on changing it rather than succumbing to despair because fighting back seems like hard work.
JohnT, I'm flattered that you're still thinking of me, but, sadly, you're mistaken. I've never told anyone to "shut up," though I've had it said to me several times. I have said, "making shit up," which is what you're doing now. Maybe you misremembered?
BTW, wasn't petey crowing last month about Congress at 14%? Seems to me, 18% this month would indicate approval is growing. *smirk*
Posted by iamcoyote at August 22, 2007 09:06 AMBoth parties are for (a) themselves and (b) the moneyed interests that support their bank accounts. Their is no essential difference between them.
My vote, and my support, will be an effort to assure that the executive and legislative branches are of different parties. This will assure that as little as possible can get done, and the minimum damage to the country occurs.
Posted by Jayhawk at August 22, 2007 09:34 AMThis will assure that as little as possible can get done, and the minimum damage to the country occurs.
I think you're describing the situation we have now, except the 'damage to the country' part.
coyote, Yeah, petey was crowing about congress being at 3% one time. Of course he never links anything he says. And if he does, he's spun it and twisted it so that it's nothing like the original article read. Full of misinformation and lies, that twit!
Posted by Seven of Six at August 22, 2007 09:43 AMDifferent polling company showing similar results reinforcing the basic belief of a Congress at it's worst. It's historic lows. Read the Gallup poll Iam. Dropping not rising.
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=28456
Posted by peter at August 22, 2007 09:44 AMFull of misinformation and lies, that twit!
That's what he gets paid for, SoS. Why anyone bothers with him at all is beyond me.
This will assure that as little as possible can get done, and the minimum damage to the country occurs.
So you're okay with the level of damage now? Bummer. It seems odd to me that the ones complaining loudest about needing a change are the ones that loudly shout down anyone who offers ideas on how to effect change. Adhering to an "all or nothing" stance guarantees "nothing," doesn't it?
Posted by iamcoyote at August 22, 2007 09:56 AMWhy anyone bothers with him at all is beyond me.
Amen sister!
Posted by snark at August 22, 2007 10:02 AMWhy anyone bothers with him at all is beyond me.
Time to delete his lying ass then?
Posted by Seven of Six at August 22, 2007 10:18 AMSoS, as much of an asshole petey is, I don't think deleting is the answer - especially when some of our regulars say almost the same things; though for different reasons. While progressives dump on Dems because they want our country to live up to its ideals, petey and his cohort do it out of just plain assholishness. By supporting the GOP, these trolls announce their disinterest in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights since the GOP is demonstratively against them; petey's main purpose is to discourage, to taunt, to divide. His kind should be seen and heard - so we know exactly what we're fighting. Sure, we want to get rid of Blue Dogs and Joementum traitors, but the reason we do is to get better leaders in the fight against the real enemies - the authoritarian horde that is the Republican Party. They've done more damage to this country than bin Laden could ever have hoped, and they need to be exposed and stopped. The only way to expose them is to let them talk - their hatred for democracy and freedom and truth sticks out every time.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 22, 2007 10:45 AMI wish two things:
1. People would stop touting the Dem lead this far out. Clearly it is theirs to loose and they are doing a fine job of loosing it, but the polls mean nothing at this point.
2. People would stop blaming the Bush Dogs (love that term) for it when the leadership is just as much at fault. BOTH deserve blame.
How are Dems to be excited about showing up at the polls at this point? I'm not. Sure I'll show and vote... for someone. No I don't hold the majority wholly responsible, but if they don't start defending the Constitution of the United States against the craven leadership of their party more vigorously then I will.
Posted by Fr33d0m at August 22, 2007 10:49 AMThey've done more damage to this country than bin Laden could ever have hoped...
No doubt, played right into bin Laden's hands. Stupid fuckers!!
Posted by Seven of Six at August 22, 2007 10:54 AMosama bi laden..a free man today..that blows my mind
Posted by dennis at August 22, 2007 12:22 PMpants-pissing peter, even the YK meeting was more diverse than the Klan-like meetings of ReThugs and conservatives (paleo-, neo- or theo-)
and I'm sure the American people will turn back to the party of Iraq, Katrina, and massive tax cuts for mega-millionaires (all paid for by charging it on the Chinese Express credit card)
Not being mean spirited here, but what is it with using "loose" or "loosing" when you mean "lose" or "losing?" I see it more and more and wonder if it's a regional thing- like using "ideal" when you mean "idea."
Posted by Cosrai at August 22, 2007 03:24 PMDodd said Democrats could lose control of Congress in the 2008 elections if they pursued that course, because many Americans would object to Congress spending 14 months on impeachment proceedings rather than focusing on other problems facing the nation.
"Impeachment proceedings suck all of the oxygen out of the room," he told members of STAR PAC, a group dedicated to political action against war, at a Des Moines appearance that marked the end of an eight-day campaign swing through Iowa.
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070821/NEWS09/708210398/-1/caucus
Is Sen. Dodd another to add to your list to get rid of? The list is growing rather large, new names each day.
Posted by peter at August 22, 2007 04:03 PMCosrai - yeah, the loose/lose is one of the more common mixups. Not nearly as common as the their/they're/there mistake, though. That one gets me every time!
Posted by iamcoyote at August 22, 2007 04:47 PMIt never ceases to amaze me the power of wishful thinking.
The only solution is to let the Democratic party die. But it wont since the elite and corporate worlds will keep it alive with money.
Anybody who thinks a Dem is going to stop the war is dreaming, a fool and ignorant of history. Clinton will pick up right where Bush left off. Of course the Dems will argue that they will better conduct the ongoing genocide.
Posted by soccerdad at August 22, 2007 05:14 PMof course pants-pissing peter probably thinks it is fine to impeach a president for lies about a blowjob but not so fine to impeach one who LIED a country into a war of aggression
Posted by Gay Veteran at August 23, 2007 06:29 AM