I got the same sort of response from my Senator and from the Senate Majority Leader when I wrote to complain about the way the FISA vote was handled. No poorly contrived excuses, just crickets.
Looks like they don't need us.
Posted by Fr33d0m at August 25, 2007 10:13 AMI sat down and wrote them a long letter . . .
At least once a week I want to communicate my rage at this capitulation or complicity, whichever it is. But it's a bit like talking to an ex-wife: the DNC didn't care what I thought when I was giving them money, they are certainly not going to care when I'm not.
This is heresy, and a horror to contemplate, but maybe they need to once again lose the White House by equivocation and duplicity. It sounds too close to Naderite thinking, but maybe they need to lose again before the lower ranks will revolt against the "leadership" and replace them.
Posted by James E. Powell at August 25, 2007 10:14 AMYour choice of oil-nazi treasonous parties of SOBs: the Bush/GOP oil-nazi traitors to our Bill of Rights, our Constitution and our America or the Democratic partyu corporate oil-nazi traitors to the Bill of Rights, our Constitution and our America, led by the two imperialist war-mongers, Hillary and Obomba...
Posted by james k. sayre at August 25, 2007 10:20 AMIs the Dem Congress weak and ineffectual? Yes.. but your post is steaming with narcissism, self indulgence and histrionics, and therefore self-negating. Yes, folks, it's all about me, and my righteous anger.
Posted by Bill R. at August 25, 2007 10:53 AMUh, you're upset?
Their intransigence just doesn't seem to shock me as it used to ... a kind of mental self protection, I think.
I'm not suggesting that this numbness is a good thing.
Posted by gail at August 25, 2007 11:00 AMPerhaps, but we are stuck with a week ineffectual party that is unresponsive. Not even a boilerplate response! You expect us to be happy about that? Many of us worked hard and put our money where our mouth is to put these cowards in office and they won't even send us a template email with poorly contrived excuses. IMHO narcissism is called for--almost mandated.
I hope everyone answering one of those polls about what party you will vote for will answer Repugnicon just to make a point.
Posted by Fr33d0m at August 25, 2007 11:11 AMAnd, your alternative would be.....?
We have seen it before, Democrats ripping each other to pieces because their pet causes weren't getting enough attention. In the end they become angry, frustrated, alienated, and wind up turning Congress and the White House over to Republicans by either not voting or by voting for some whacko third party candidate.
The truth is that Democrats can do very little to stop George Bush and his gang of corrupt operatives without a sixty-vote majority in the Senate. That should be the message on which we are focusing. We do not need to be withholding our support because we didn't like a vote on a particular bill. Democrats are our last best hope for ending this senseless and costly war. Let's not throw away that chance by eating our own young. Register your complaints, but keep the faith.
Of course, you could finish us off once and for all by voting Republican. For now, it's still a free country, although not quite as free as it used to be.
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 25, 2007 11:26 AMAdvocating, or even insisting upon, policies that are supported by the majority of Americans, and the overwhelming majority of one's own party, is not narcissism or self-indulgence.
For many of us who supported, and many who continue to support, the Democratic Party, we feel that we have been betrayed, used and discarded like a paper towel.
We don't hold elective office, we don't get on the talk shows and we don't control anything. We have a very limited range of options and withdrawing our support, and being vocal and emphatic about our reasons for doing so, seems to be the only way that we can register on anyone's radar.
Posted by James E. Powell at August 25, 2007 11:30 AMPretzelsOne,
I am pretty tired of hearing that sixty-vote argument. The Republicans managed to wreak a lot of havoc with less than that. They are in the minority and they still control the debate. How come the Democrats didn't do that? How come they don't do that now?
Posted by James E. Powell at August 25, 2007 11:37 AMI have no problem with being vocal. We should all let our representatives and senators in Congress know how we feel. I just don't want us withholding our support because Democrats were powerless to do what we wanted them to do. If they get a sixty-vote margin in the Senate, and then do nothing, they deserve what they get. The object here is to get rid of George Bush and his gaggle of neocons. Let's not lose sight of that.
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 25, 2007 11:42 AMJames:
By all means, show your disgust by voting Republican. It's the right way to correct this mess.
Pretzels One
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 25, 2007 11:45 AMIt is just a little hard to get rid of George W. Bush and the neocons when we have Democrats not only failing to oppose them but working to support them.
The FISA vote is only the most recent and glaring example.
The sixty-vote argument does not explain the failure to get rid of the lying attorney-general, the failure to investigate and expose the Bush/Cheney corruption or the refusal to make it clear that Bush/Cheney and the Republicans own the Iraq occupation.
Posted by James E. Powell at August 25, 2007 11:46 AMJames:
I agree. Democrats in Congress have been less than stellar in their opposition to Bush and his war-mongering, corporate cronies. BUT, I will ask again, do you have a better alternative than the Democratic Party that has any chance of defeating George Bush and his gang of warmongering cronies? To me, there are only three alternatives. Vote for Democrats, don't vote, or vote for some fringe candidate with absolutely no chance of winning. If you've got another solution, aside from revolution, I'd like to hear it.
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 25, 2007 11:53 AM"a sixty-vote majority in the Senate"
How would that have helped you with 16 senators voting for FISA? With 40 plus House members?
Elected Democrats are always duping their voters and the voters are too easily duped. Look at the African American vote, they're always there, yet they rarely get the representation they desire. Progressives seem to falling for the same crap. "Give us your money then your vote," then seeya sucker. "We'll try to get to your issues. Goodbye." Teachers support Democrats almost exclusively and yet our education system is so bad. Seems like they want Democrats to only keep their jobs not improve our kids education. There's progress, not.
Posted by peter at August 25, 2007 12:11 PMWhy do I feel as if I've been here before? Oh, right, I was. It only took the DEM controlled Congress five years to get around to de-funding the Vietnam War. Five years after LBJ left office and started peace negotiations. Five years after anyone with half a brain could see that we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
If Nixon hadn't been impeached, he would have our troops back in there long before the fall of Saigon. He was no less stubborn than GWB and he didn't want his legacy to include that he lost a war. He needn't have worried about that -- it was all blamed on LBJ and the dirty rotten hippies.
The sad truth is that we have three natural political parties in this country that easily account for 85-90% of the public. You have your warmongering fundamentalists, your corporatists (they like their wars to be colder and more surreptitious) and your socialists (national defense only to repel invaders). Problem is that the corporatists control both parties and the rest of us are dupes only along for the ride.
Posted by Marie at August 25, 2007 12:50 PMA righteous rant is a righteous rant and such are much admired by this reader.
If only the persistent loyalty of so many Democrats was instead devoted to the preservation and/or rebuilding of our country, I would be vastly impressed.
I find such comments as some whacko third party candidate. and ... some fringe candidate with absolutely no chance of winning. to be demeaning, prejudiced, inaccurate, and democracy-damaging.
If you missed it, here's OPOL's great diary yesterday regarding war-mongering, conscience-voting, and such wonders.
Posted by dus7 at August 25, 2007 01:12 PMI'm not trying to encourage you here, but have you seen "recreate68.org"?
Posted by peter at August 25, 2007 01:25 PMPretzelsOne: "We have seen it before, Democrats ripping each other to pieces because their pet causes weren't getting enough attention."
yeah, our Constitution and our rights, just another "pet cause"
Posted by gay veteran at August 25, 2007 01:31 PMthe voters who have been really getting duped are the Republicans, they have enabled the borrowing of $TRILLIONS from the Chinese in order to give mega-millionaires tax cuts
yeah, middle class (barely) southerners, they fu*ked themselves over real good
Posted by gay veteran at August 25, 2007 01:37 PMVoting Republican isn't the answer to anything. All that would do is encourage more of the same. Activism and voting in primaries are the bast ways to create effective change. It is a long term process and the corporate media is going to fight against a progressive future every step of the way. But, that's just how it is.
Posted by herbal tee at August 25, 2007 01:54 PMWelcome to the club, paradox.
As soon as Speaker Nancy Pelosi uttered those now infamous words, "Impeachment is off the table," later followed by, "Bush isn't worth impeaching," it was time to change my party membership and become a registered Independent.
Pelosi tenure as Speaker has resulted in a decline in numbers in registered Democrats and an increase in registered Independents.
The House of Pelosi polls in the upper teens and is less popular than George Bush!
Next year's general election could very well result in payback to the Democratic leadership for their spinelessness. We shall see.
Posted by Christopher at August 25, 2007 04:10 PMI will probably vote for a third party candidate. A pox on both their houses.
Posted by Kevin at August 25, 2007 04:28 PMYEAAAHHH! Time for some serious Bush Deranged Leftist Moonbattery:
Posted by nabalzbbfr at August 25, 2007 05:57 PMI no longer have any fucking use for these gutless bastards. Fuck 'em.
Time for pitchforks and torches.
Throw the whole goddamned bunch of pussies into the streets. Conyers first.
Posted by angryspittle at August 25, 2007 06:03 PMPeter: If you think Republicans will do a better job on your kids' educations, then, by all means, vote for them.
Kevin: If you think a third party candidate is the answer, then, by all means, vote for Ross Perot or Ralph Nader or some other whacko who thinks that he or she can do something no one has come close to doing in a century or so. But, remember, it was Nader who gave us George Bush, twice. President Guiliani has a nice ring to it, don't you think?
Christopher: If it's payback you want, then the best way to do it would be to put the same people back in office who got us into this mess in the first place. That'll show'em, by golly. Wish I had thought of it.
Gay Veteran: Constitution? Rights? I'm with you. The best way to protect those things is to give Republicans the White House, majorities in both houses of Congress, and a Republican dominated Supreme Court. That ought to do it. We'll show those spineless Democrats. Right? Sheeesh!
Dus7: Righteous rants are fun, but usually don't accomplish very much. And, just for fun, can you name me a recent third party or fringe candidate who wasn't a whacko? Better yet, name one who actually won the presidency?
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 25, 2007 06:20 PMBaird, who had just returned from a trip to Iraq, now opposes any timetable for troop withdrawal.
Those statements effectively hooked a boulder to the Democrats’ gathering momentum for a swift troop pull-out. And Baird wasn’t the only one. Rep. Tim Mahoney (D-Fla.) came back from Iraq and told his local newspaper that the surge “has really made a difference and really has gotten al Qaeda on their heels.”
That's Foley's replacement talking.
Talking about Florida, Chris Bowers map had Florida going to HC in 2008. Seems the DNC wants to give that state away now. Won't seat their 210 delegates in Denver next August if they hold their primary as the state law requires. 27 EV's more to Giuliani, way to go DNC. And if Iowa has their caucus in December, candidates may be able to collect money for 2007 primary year, a whole new cycle of fund raising.
Great economy:
HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana’s booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a Texas telemarketing firm, not because it’s cheaper but because he can’t find workers.
Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
John Francis, who owns the McDonald’s in Sidney, Mont., said he tried advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs.
There's your $10.00 an hour minimum wage at a McDonald's.
Posted by peter at August 25, 2007 06:34 PMnabalzbbfr, the time to arrest Bush for conduct unbecoming an officer was during the Vietnam War when Bush was hiding out in the National Guard drunk on his ass snorting coke. Guess that's where he got his great insights on Vietnam.
PretzelsOne: "Gay Veteran: Constitution? Rights? I'm with you. The best way to protect those things is to give Republicans the White House, majorities in both houses of Congress, and a Republican dominated Supreme Court. That ought to do it. We'll show those spineless Democrats. Right? Sheeesh!"
and pray what the FU*K have the Dems done to protect our constitutional rights?!?!?!? they got on their knees and kissed Bush's ass on the FISA vote, they refused to filibuster Roberts and Alito (and isn't it amazing how effective the ReThugs are at filibustering)
and yes pants pissing peter, the DNC refusing to seat Florida's deleation to the Democratic convention will somehow cause Florida to vote for the great man from NYC who placed his emergency command center in the SAME area the terrorists previously attacked (though it was a great spot to fu*k his mistress)
great economy?!?!?!? then why does the overwhelming majority of Americans think the country is on the WRONG tract??? yeah, lots of jobs in Sidney, Montana, everyone should just move there. the stoopid, it burns!
Posted by gay veteran at August 25, 2007 06:43 PMGay Veteran: Time to put the rum and Coke down, take a deep breath, and tuck it in for the night. Your anger is getting the better of you. I am angry, too, but far less angry at the Democrats, who have had "marginal" control of Congress for six months, than at Republicans who had absolute control before that when we got into this mess. But that's just me. By all means, if you think Democrats are to blame, vote against them.
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 25, 2007 07:20 PMThis lousy fucking blog is in full meltdown.
I'm lovin' it.
Posted by Toby Petzold at August 25, 2007 08:55 PM"Kevin: If you think a third party candidate is the answer, then, by all means, vote for Ross Perot or Ralph Nader or some other whacko who thinks that he or she can do something no one has come close to doing in a century or so. But, remember, it was Nader who gave us George Bush, twice. President Guiliani has a nice ring to it, don't you think?"
I respect your position PretzelsOne. So much so ,I voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 ;the "practical" choices. But I won't get fooled again.If anything can put the fear of God into the "practical" Democrats in Congress,it's their profoundly low approval ratings.They only have tentative approval from the center. Their base has deserted them.
Let's finally break the back of this two-party scam. Vote for the third party candidate of your choice. Or for a third party candidate on the right to split the right-wing vote!
Posted by at August 25, 2007 10:41 PMSorry for the double-posting. But PretzelsOne, when the "good guys" capitulate on something like the new FISA law,it's time get real impractical!
Posted by Kevin at August 25, 2007 11:02 PM"Vote for the third party candidate of your choice. Or for a third party candidate on the right to split the right-wing vote!"
Kevin, that is an interesting idea.
Posted by Judith at August 26, 2007 02:56 AMtoby....kind of like the republican party?
Posted by dennis at August 26, 2007 05:16 AMI'm not sure I thought that one through ,Judith. Campaigning for a third party rightwing candidate might help split the Republican vote.But I don't think voting for one would. Perhaps support for new Democratic candidates rather than the incumbents would be more productive.
Posted by Kevin at August 26, 2007 05:22 AMEveryone is in such a good mood today!
I think the incumbent Dems are the problem and they should all be replaced, stem to stern. Not all will be up for re-election, but many will face other Dem-prospects. It seesm to me that your anger should focus on the local races, the neophytes and effort should be directed at putting real Dem fighters in office instead of fake ones.
I think the NeoCons are going down by virtue of their own stupidy and over-reach; however, they remain a problem for another year of active duty. he only thing left is to do there is (as paradox and others make clear) register loud complaint to the incumbents of either party, and quit sending money to the Dems in particular--just make sure you tie it together in some obvious way.
This little snit over the Florida Primary date, for example. I suppose it is a "fairness" issue for the candidates running for President and some stability needs to be asserted for the overall primary calendar, but to me it seems like just another case of Dems trying to kill each other without respect to the overall cause. It's stupid and petty and soooooDemocratic Party. (This is why they could never come up with NeoCon horseshit in the first place.)
Dump the incumbents--one at a time, cycle afer cycle. That doesn't take a 3rd party. It takes the Dem grassroots to send the bosses a unified message of disgust.
Posted by gtash at August 26, 2007 06:11 AM
PretzelsOne: "...I am angry, too, but far less angry at the Democrats, who have had "marginal" control of Congress for six months...."
Yeah, and prior to the six months mark?
Democrats have only had "marginal" control of Congress for one month.
Democrats have only had "marginal" control of Congress for two months.
Democrats have only had "marginal" control of Congress for three months.
Democrats have only had "marginal" control of Congress for four months.
Democrats have only had "marginal" control of Congress for five months.
The Democrats may not have the power to pass bills that we want, but they DO have the power to control what does get passed. They control the floor of the House and Senate, and yet we got fascist FISA vote.
Long past time to stop the knee-jerk rationalizations for the Dems.
And I don't drink rum and Coke.
Posted by gay veteran at August 26, 2007 06:35 AMDemocrats have only had "marginal" control of Congress for eighteen months.
They've reauthorized FISA yet again. Given more money towards the Iraq war. And approved another Bush SCOTUS appointee.
How's that majority thing working now?
Posted by peter at August 26, 2007 12:49 PMI give. I am now convinced that it is much more important to send a message to Democrats about our collective anger over their inability to overcome the power of a lunatic President and the ineptitude of a basically fifty-fifty Senate than it is to remove from power the party that got us into this mess in the first place. There's a phrase I'm trying to recall that involves the words cutting, noses, and spite. Oh, well, it'll come to me. No matter. I'm going to vote a straight Republican ticket now anyway. We'll show those bastards.
And, Gay Veteran, you might want to try that rum and Coke thing. It's one of of life's little pleasures.
Posted by PretzelsOne at August 26, 2007 02:07 PMYou would not believe how this vote (and some others like it in the past) affects people. Automatic contributors to state and county Democratic parties start calling and canceling their credit card contributions because of tone deaf votes by the doofuses in Washington. Of course, local and county parties (and even the DNC) don't really have any control over what those people do. Esp. at the county level, we're trying to build the grassroots organization that their successors will use.
But this crap really makes Democrats mad, no question.
Posted by mooncat at August 26, 2007 08:48 PMI haven't even bothered to write regarding FISA.
I never get any response but a stilted form letter anyway. I gave up on Feinstein years ago. The only thing left to do is close the checkbook which I have done.