Paradox, I share your feelings. The republicans have betrayed this country. The despicable cowardliness of the democrats has failed this country. I cannot support either of them. Both parties are the problem. The so-called liberal blogs are not doing this country any favors by supporting the democrats. Both parties are war parties - both are imperialist parties. I cannot support either. Imperialism destroys not only lives but also democracy. Our democracy is on life support. Yet I see all of these "liberal" blogs supporting a stronger military - this militarization is what is destroying our country and our democracy. What should we do? We have to fight against this militarization of our country. We have to become anti-imperialists. We have to fight both parties because both are the problem. both are imperialist parties and both are destroying this country. Haven't the democrats given proof of this just in the last few months? They support the war and the destruction of our constitution. They are the problem not the solution.
Posted by jj at August 31, 2007 09:05 AMparadox - i think the "having it both ways" is an effort to provide both carrots and sticks. we've got to be honest and shine a bright light when democrats fail us and the country.... but that doesn't mean we have to give up. some people have opted to work inside the party, some outside... and then there are people like me who try to do a bit of both.
and i don't think it has to be a contradiction...
Posted by selise at August 31, 2007 09:22 AMI hear ya. Was asked this morning who I was supporting this time around and the first thing that popped out of my mouth was "How can I support anyone when it looks like a choice between GWB and GWB?"
I suppose there is a difference between "Stay the course for victory" and "Stay the course for withdrawal," but damn if I can see how the same strategy is supposed to produce two slightly different outcomes. They'll cost the same in dollars, lives and time.
Oust Maliki seems to the consensus position that unites the DEM and GOP, although the DEMs assert that this has come to pass because of GWB's incompetence. All agree that the Iraqis haven't been helpful to us. Well, duh, what did they expect? That the Iraqis would roll over like the French cheese eating, surrender monkeys did for the Germans? The "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran now" crowd vs. the "Talk tough and bomb Iran later" crowd is a distinction without a difference.
Beating my head against the wall in hopes that the enablers of the Vichy DEMs will get a clue is about as productive as arguing with a dittohead in 2001. Makes me wonder why I ever boarded that one-way train out of the state of blissful ignorance when I could have avoided the discomfort of the trip and reached the same destination as all those who stayed behind.
I've been seeing more anger at the blue dogs and a desire to support what are more progressive Democrats. I don't see a contradiction there really. Wanting to filter out those who have not lived up to our progressive ideals and supporting those who will. Harry Reid I just don't understand at all. But then, he's not a progressive.
Posted by kerril at August 31, 2007 09:37 AMI think bush is going to bomb Iran. I think the democrats will support him doing this. I hope neither happens but I think both will.
Posted by jj at August 31, 2007 09:50 AMI think what the work Open Left is doing to out that incredibly long list of "Bush Dogs" is one of the most depressing and discouraging things I have ever seen.
I love the bloggers there and in no way demean the intent, idea, or energy. Just think about it, Open Left, MoveOn and the ACLU are actively confronting our own people! Those groups should be moving forward on our agenda, not attacking elements of our own party! Jesus Christ!
The reinforcements, the fresh crop. I understand, but after Hersethanol and McNerny no one can stand before me with that shit. Are you kidding me?
We support X and such and such, thus we are reformers when we demand a straight party line vote. Just for me, that does not work any more, no fucking way, far too many have died and been maimed.
Posted by paradox at August 31, 2007 10:08 AMParadox - I guess I don't share your feelings. I really don't know what you are talking about. So are you now saying that you find attacking democrats who support the war and shit on our constitution depressing? Excuse me but you are making no sense.
Posted by jj at August 31, 2007 10:38 AMI think what the work Open Left is doing to out that incredibly long list of "Bush Dogs" is one of the most depressing and discouraging things I have ever seen.
Well, you're entitled to your opinions, but I'd personally love to see The Boz (IA-03) retired and a progressive Dem run in his place. It won't happen, because even at death's door did Boz refuse to give up, even with a Democratic Governor to appoint his replacement. That Bush Dog is going to have to be pried out of office with a bloody and costly primary.
Posted by idiosynchronic at August 31, 2007 10:49 AMAgree with jj. Naturally we want to constitute a majority that will vote to restore our rights etc.. otherwise why bother? What is the point of voting for anybody who does not care about our concerns? And why let them ignore us when they make claims one way and vote another?
Posted by kerril at August 31, 2007 10:52 AM~~I am still wretched in my new Independent status, missing my people, feeling like I belong to nothing, alarmed that I might be failing the country somehow, and even more confused than usual.~~
“Men must be ready, they must pride themselves and be happy to sacrifice their private pleasures, passions and interests, nay, their private friendships and dearest connections, when they stand in competition with the rights of society.” John Adams
Paradox, can imagine being torn up but must say that, as far as I’m concerned, anyone who dares to question the status quo to its limits and do something about it when the self-responses are not something that we can honestly and without qualm support (lest we fail the most important soul in the entire shitty equation, one’s self), has to have its merit.
~~A great part of that confusion has been instigated by the liberal blogging community, who have had it both ways on the Democratic party for a long time: they regale it and explore its many weaknesses endlessly, yet at the same time demand it’s the only avenue for change. Bloggers call Democrats afraid one day and then furiously raise funds for them the next, oblivious to the contradiction. I’ve seen one blog rip Harry Reid to shreds repeatedly, yet simulatenously exhorting readers to back Democrats and get involved in Senate politics.
Personally I found the contradiction intolerable, along with further capitulation of the Party. Kagro X, a great blogger, just this morning announced the Democrats will own the surge after this Fall, lock stock & barrel. Do liberal bloggers really want to rally the base all they can for a party that owns the surge? I simply can’t do that.~~
“They define a republic to be a government of laws, and not of men.” John Adams
Confess that, for a few months already, I’ve been appalled at the gist of some of the commentaries, particularly the ones having to do with, to be or not to be loyal to Hillary regardless of how I truly feel about her status quo politics, that is a wee something that’s not even going to become a question for me. Yeah, I’m a democrat and, though I don’t really like her politics one bloody bit, hey! the party is the party and one most respect that above anything else.
God almighty, what a bloody bummer it tends to be coming across such affirmations…
After all, who here has any respect for republicans who blindly follow their party line regardless of the countless shortcomings of those, like Bush, when they are put on the platter as the only option of the nauseating menu? Is this an honest way to vote? Is it helpful for any country wishing to hold on to its most beloved ideals? Does the fact that someone (and no matter what that “someone” may stand for) has a bigger chance to win has any redeeming value, even though the souls of those having the amazing option of voting are not in it?
~~If there was a specific, real wing or movement of the party I knew had a decent chance for changing the Democratic party I’d join up in a second, but there isn’t. I wish people would understand and not judge me; a great deal of my confusion stems from the behavior of the blogging community itself, and I don’t know what to do.~~
If I may be so bold, I’d suggest that you stay your “course”, Paradox. Yeah, the one that is thoroughly and without question AOK with you. Ay, the one that you can live with. The one that, one day down the road, you’ll be able to explain fully to your children and grandchildren because you dared to put all of the energy of your political thinking where you believe it belongs. Indeed, the course that allows you to get up in the morning, look in the mirror, and respect the individual who’s looking back for, at the end, that’s the one soul that requires not only your deepest attention but it’s also the most deserving of receiving the total of your honest to a fault—truth.
“Independence forever.” John Adams
Paradox, sorry for abusing the use of so many quotes, but as a legate from your gifted forefathers you (and your people) are so lucky to have such amazing wealth of wisdom from which to ease political worries…
With all my being, I wish you PAZ, amigo.
paradox, my sense is that you're in danger of losing the small amount of detachment that is necessary, and need to step away for a while. Maybe a short while, maybe a long while -- but disengage from politics, from blogs, from news, and do something else for a while that reestablishes your connection with the real and immediate in life, rather than the abstract and political. When it becomes so personal that the things you can't control, that you will never be able to control, are anguishing, then you need to make a change, or at least take a break.
Posted by joel hanes at August 31, 2007 12:12 PMAs an independent for many years, I understand the dilemma. I have voted third party for a number of years, always trying to convince others to do the same, but they always countered that it's akin to throwing the vote away. Nader used to say that the two parties are too similar. While not entirely true, they take money from the same backers, and not enough gets done. The two parties are as much corporations as political movements. The more independents there are, the more outliers can get elected (or votes at the least) the more the parties in power will be forced to take notice. Remember Ross Perot?
Posted by Cali4nian at August 31, 2007 12:31 PM"I think what the work Open Left is doing to out that incredibly long list of "Bush Dogs" is one of the most depressing and discouraging things I have ever seen."
My sentiments exactly, Paradox. I feel progressives are taking the party in the wrong direction for Democrats.
Posted by peter at August 31, 2007 12:54 PMparadox - may I suggest you read:
August 6, 2007 “A Transitional Stage”
(scroll down, although lots of other good stuff is above and below it)
"..... but I'd personally love to see The Boz (IA-03) retired and a progressive Dem run in his place...."
I've been thinking the same thing, idio. What's up with the Boz, anyway? Has he always been like this, and I just never noticed? Or is this a case of him sulking about recent committee assignments? Scheeze, I'm glad I'm not in his district anymore.
Posted by Julie at August 31, 2007 01:40 PMI find "salvation" in supporting individuals, not the Democratic party. I love the progressive blogosphere because it makes it easier for me to find and support the Russ Feingolds, Darcy Burners, and Donna Edwardses. Much of the vetting is done for me by the bloggers I trust, like Matt and Chris at Open Left and those at Firedoglake and Daily Kos. (although I still look into them on my own). I think of it as building a Congress, one true progressive at a time. I take great delight in putting my money where my heart is.
What depresses me is not the fight against the Bush Dogs but the fact that there are so many of them masquerading as liberals, and I am delighted that they are being called out for what they are.
Posted by Katherine at August 31, 2007 04:13 PM