Its interesting that the more sculduggery uncovered by the Dem majority and the public in general regarding the "do anything" mentality of the Bush/Cheney cabal, the more questions arise about the event that started their whole ball rolling. To say there are hundreds of questions about 9/11 still unanswered is probably understating it by about 1000. The Tower 7 collapse, skillfully hidden from popular knowledge, being one of the big questions. There are many, many more. One I'd like to have answered is why Cheney contacted many Dem members of Congress after the attacks asking them to NOT investigate it. Then stonewalled the creation of a Panel. Then stonewalled the Panel. Over half of the public in the Zogby poll smell a rat. Which Dem candidate will pick up that smell and run with it?

Also in Passaic, former council member Jonathan Soto, Any relation to you Steve?

T2 - I think it's obvious why Cheney didn't want the Dems to investigate, or the panel to talk about, or the findings publicized concerning, 9/11. The admin wanted to own the terror for their own use, they wanted to cover up their negligence in preventing it, they saw the perfect opportunity to go after their PNAC plan and took it to the extreme, as the 'pukes always do when they're in power. As for the poll itself, the question concerning bldg 7 was like dangling a candy bar in front of a kid. Of course, the poll was by the 911truth nuts, so what do you expect? Still, with Roody thinking he's gonna be king one day, it'd be a good thing to have questions about bldg 7 circulating, though less about "controlled demolition" (hahahaha) and more about "why the hell would you put your command center next to the last terrorist's target?" (answer: because it was an easy walk from his office) Ba dum bum!

Didn't Rahm Emanuel say Democrats didn't do this just this week?

"US Democratic presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich, on a Mideast visit that included a stop in Syria, said the country lambasted by the Bush administration deserves credit for taking in more than a million Iraqi refugees.

"I feel the United States is engaging in an illegal occupation ... I don't want to bless that occupation with my presence," he said in an interview in Lebanon, after visiting Syria. "I will not do it."" www.jpost.com

I guess he didn't get the memo.

if Tower 7 wasn't blown up, I'd say some of Rudy's NYC Construction Inspector's have some explaining to do.

Nope

Any relation to you Steve?

Nah, Steve #1's a punk! Steve #2's a mild-mannered blogger.

That's awesome! The Adolescents! Steve 1 may be cooler than Steve 2!

Jeff, I'm not sure if it's true about Steve #1, but I thought it was funny when a friend of mine who was once married to one of the Germs, asked about it. And yes, she hung out with alla them wankers back in the day... Either way - Steve's a punk! *ducks*

Actually, when my wife and I moved our daughter back down to school last month, we ate lunch at a rock music cafe in downtown Fullerton, where Steve Soto #1 and the Adolescents ruled the roost years ago. Pretty cool.

Way cool. Hope you got a free lunch out of it!

I'd say some of Rudy's NYC Construction Inspector's have some explaining to do.

T2, I wouldn't be surprised if they do, Bldg 7 or no Bldg 7...

amcoyote: "why the hell would you put your command center next to the last terrorist's target?"

it was a convenient place to screw his mistress

Coyote, I'm thinking of changing my Left Coaster name to Darby Crash, after the lead singer of the Germs, the one who died of an OD like 3 years into the bands' existence, supposedly as a tribute to Sid Vicious. Hopefully your friend wasn't married to HIM.

As far as the Adolescents go, they were a very serviceable punk band out of that whole SoCal hardcore scene. What I remember about Steve 1 was he played bass, and his claim to fame was a song he sang called "It's Tattoo Time," a tribute to the art of inking. Good stuff.

Maybe we should have a music thread sometime when reality gets too depressing. Coyote, you must have some stories to tell if your friend was a Germette.

My friend says she was definitely not a Germette. It sounded like a derogatory term coming from her. Apparently, it was a crazy time, especially after the skinheads adopted punk and turned it nasty.

I was never into the punk scene, tho, more of an East Coast elite!

I'm glad to see the signs of suspicion that I see in this thread. I don't want to sound like the guy who claims he knew Bruce Willis was dead 20 minutes into "The Sixth Sense", but I knew it on 9/11. I knew it when I saw the towers collapse into footprints.

9/11 was an inside job. I won't link to anything in particular that backs this up; google 9/11 and do the research for yourself. Read the eyewitness statements. Look at the timeline. Ask yourself the questions. Listen to the story of William Rodriguez. Why won't the FBI release ONE piece of film from the multiple cameras that captured something hitting the Pentagon?

Please don't disregard me as a "conspiracy nut". I'm not. I was lucky enough to come to a conclusion before the MSM storm completely hypnotized this country.

Coyote, I'm sorry but there was no "negligence in preventing" 9/11. This was orchestrated.

But, you may ask, how could they cover up something THIS BIG?? By making you feel ashamed to dare to question it. How dare you? How dare you disrespect the families of loved ones lost on that day. That, along with "you're either with us or against us", and let me tell you. It's been a long, lonely six years for me.

Today it seems I'm in the majority. Thank you for that, Steve.

Adolph Hitler said, "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

'Nuff said.

Majority? Seems you conspiracy nuts see what you want to see.

if Tower 7 wasn't blown up, I'd say some of Rudy's NYC Construction Inspector's have some explaining to do.

Not really. Building inspectors inspect buildings for violations of the building code and for deviations from approved plans. Neither of which was necessarily the case in WTC 7. NIST has a working hypothesis for the collapse. Its quite realistic. You should read it. Its available on their web site. And theyve done some looking into the potential of blasts having been used to bring down the building too an it seems as though the over pressure from the demolition charges required would have blown out many of the windows in the building. But that didnt happen.

I wondered if you'd show up here, snark.

I knew it when I saw the towers collapse into footprints.

I fine example of "the big lie".

I wondered if you'd show up here, snark.

I guess some would consider me a concern troll.

*snort*

Did you take a gander at the poll questions? Talk about twisting results to suit your prejudices...

Riverbend posted today. She and her family made it safely to Syria.

I know, heart wrenching, wasn't it? SoS gave the heads-up yesterday - I cried, as usual. I hope her family's not in some camp, I wish the other families weren't...

Coyote, before I forget, I had no idea "Germette" was a derogatory term, for the record. Tell your friend not to hate me. What do I know, I'm a midwesterner, I've been to SoCal once in my life, I thought I made up the term myself.

And I say let 9/11 and snark go, I like reading these theories sometimes.

Hey, did you notice I posted Hillary's Mexican trucking statement? I just got it tonight.

Another part of the Democrats’ “100 Hours Agenda” is achieved as Bush is expected to sign student loan reforms in the coming days.

Oh, goody, there are still kids dying in Iraq every day, but the Dems are proud of their 100 hours by getting student loan reforms passed. Not that that isn't needed, but it's not much of a priority, by contrast. Oh, well, those are mostly Repub kids dying, no skin off our noses, right?

DRAFT time.

Also in Passaic, former council member Jonathan Soto, Any relation to you Steve?

Don't know about Steve, or Soto. But I do have a peter. I bet you two have the same I.Q..

Majority? Seems you conspiracy nuts see what you want to see.

No, Coyote, it's not what I want to see. What I want to see is what you see. I want to believe we ignored the warnings, 9/11 happened as the official story states, and we moved into the invasion as an opportunistic move to advance an agenda the Bush administration just happened to be pushing pre-9/11.

But I can't. Nor can I believe that it's a coincidence that NORAD was engaged in training exercises that day that just happened to involve a scenario where terrorists hijacked commercial planes and flew them into skyscrapers, thereby confusing NORAD as to whether they were looking at a game or real life.

By the way, clue #2 that tipped me off? Bush sitting in the Sarasota class room listening to the goat story. "Mr. President, we are under attack."

And then the secret service allowed him to sit in that classroom. Both towers had already been hit. We knew there were multiple planes identified as potential hijacks. The public knew where Bush was going to be that morning.

And it didn't occur to anyone that Sarasota might be a target?

Standard secret service protocol says get POTUS to a secure location immediately. Don't worry about "scaring the kids". Get him out of there NOW.

But we saw what happened. He sat there to hear the rest of the goat story. Implausible. Unless we already knew what the targets were.

I'd love to believe the official story. The heroes of United 93. The buildings collapsing due to the extreme jet fueled-fire. Amateur pilots pulling off near-impossible maneuvers. Building 7 collapsing from fire and fallen debris.

Sadly, I don't buy it. It just doesn't make any sense.

And by majority, I'm quoting Soto's piece.

51% of Americans want Congress to investigate Bush and Cheney’s actions before, during, and after the 9/11 attacks

We need an independent investigation. And then we all may need to awaken to a horrifying reality. We were played.

I thought I made up the term myself.

Who knew? 'Cept the folks who were there! My friend's not peeved, don't worry.

Yeah, these theories were fun back in '01, then I got educated about them. But every time a poll comes out where people want to know more about why Tenet didn't warn Bush or Bush didn't listen, it's construed as people wanting to know why Bush brought down the towers. It's embarrassing for our side! But you go for it, 911Mulder - you'll get proof of the aliens one of these days.

By the way, clue #2 that tipped me off? Bush sitting in the Sarasota class room listening to the goat story. "Mr. President, we are under attack."

And then the secret service allowed him to sit in that classroom. Both towers had already been hit. We knew there were multiple planes identified as potential hijacks. The public knew where Bush was going to be that morning.

And it didn't occur to anyone that Sarasota might be a target?

Talk about illogical. Here's what you're saying. The Bushies orchestrated one of the most destructive black-ops in history against their own country and stupidly gave the whole thing away because they didn't react as if Bush might be a target which means Bush and everyone around him knew about the attacks. They missed that one little detail. And that allowed you to figure it all out. Bravo.

Amateur pilots pulling off near-impossible maneuvers.

Yet you believe those same amateurs could have simply located the innocuous middle school building where Bush happened to be scheduled to be for a few minutes that morning and flown a plane into it? As opposed to striking three of the largest office buildings in the world?

And Masked Vigilante....oops...I mean 911truth, the WTC towers fell down exactly as physics would dictate they should. Or would you expect the building to fall over sideways like in the cartoons? But you can't seem to stick with one name around here so I suppose it's no wonder you're a bit confused.

And I say let 9/11 and snark go

Nah, I like snark, and I've seen his arguments; he knows of what he speaks. And I happen to believe these wild-ass theories damage our ability to find out how the Cheney admin really fucked up on 9/11, by making any questions of that day easy to blow off as a conspiracy theory.

So...911Mulder unMasked! I thought his phrasing sounded familiar!

Outed. Fine. Coyote, kudos on recognizing my phrasing.

Yet you believe those same amateurs could have simply located the innocuous middle school building where Bush happened to be scheduled to be for a few minutes that morning and flown a plane into it?

I'm saying if we were under attack, why would you let the president sit in a relatively unsecured location? Did we have the foresight at that moment to think, "Oh, they're only going after office buildings of symbolic importance."

I'm out. Judging by earlier posts, I thought I had some like-minded posters here. I'm not interested in being the "conspiracy nut" who dances for your amusement.

Peace.

TMV

Google albert champion - he's even nutsier than you and will be happy to provide validation. He's a forensic metallurgist, even!

Oh - and it was the ever-brilliant snark what sussed you out!

I'm saying if we were under attack, why would you let the president sit in a relatively unsecured location? Did we have the foresight at that moment to think, "Oh, they're only going after office buildings of symbolic importance."

As opposed to rushing him out into his limosine? According to reports once the president left the classroom with the kids he was escorted to a secured classroom to be briefed. I'd assume that the Secret Service had established a secure perimeter around the area of the school. There was no indication of a threat to the location where the president was so it was as secure as any other location in the immediate vicinity.

To take the fact that the SS didn't grab Bush and throw him into the limo as evidence that they all knew what was going on is just idiotic.

I'm out. Judging by earlier posts, I thought I had some like-minded posters here. I'm not interested in being the "conspiracy nut" who dances for your amusement.

Typical 'it was an inside job' response. Run away when challenged. Adios.

Now see what you did? The MaskedVigilante has left the scene. You folks are too hard on him, I like his edge. He's more than just a "conspiracy nut" it seems to me. But what do I know? Didn't he say he was a Ron Paul fan earlier? That's kinda interesting, though I can't for the life of me understand the appeal of Libertarianism.

I DO know that it's a good day to break out your old Ramones tapes and cd's. On a rainy day in SW suburban Chicago, "Blitzkrieg Bop" sounded really good this morning. I'm wound. Gotta look for campaign news.

Front page of the Chicago Trib this morning, my US congressman is outed for selling cheap beachfront land in, get this, Nicaragua. I love it. He's a loyal Bushie.

Jeff, it was more like "Argh! Facts and logic! Run away, run away!" I would have loved to watch him dance for us. And like I told him a while back, he would be interesting if he hadn't come in outta no where and started insulting people because they didn't like Hillary. But now you've done it - you wrote the dreaded R** P*** name, now we'll have a bunch of his shills coming in and touting what a great guy he is, and how it doesn't matter that the neo-Nazi group Stormfront is backing his campaign! Them guys are everywhere!

He's more than just a "conspiracy nut" it seems to me.

I didn't call him a conspiracy nut. I just responded to his nonsense. His response is typical though. "I'm being persecuted for telling the truth!" Run away! Run away!

Nah, I'm not running away. I just don't have time to present the bits and pieces of evidence collected over the past six years. I've got work to do.

As I said before, google 9/11 or just go here and read it all for yourself.

Actually, he was the first to call himself a "conspiracy nut," so there!

MV - BTDT. Yawn.

Another vote to investigate further (but not likely possible with all the evidence conveniently swept away).

To me, Occam's razor points toward something other than the conclusions of the 'official' 911 Report. Too many coincidences with the cabal and their filthy evil tendrils.

NIST doesn't clear up anything. Didn't want to attempt to count the number of 'coulds' and 'maybes' in that silly one-sided report... The questions supposedly answered by 'Popular Mechanics' the Reader's Digest of scientific thought?

Makes me lean toward, "We're being played."

Stormfront? Whoa. If those guys start showing up now it's gonna be all my fault, isn't it?

Can you link me to THAT story, that's interesting. I still can't figure out to link in these threads.

d e, I never said I didn't think the official story was full of holes, I just don't think it was Bush, or AIPAC whodunnit, or a "false flag" or "controlled demolition." I think it was simply a series of ignored signals, out-of-date equipment, lax controls, budget constraints and just plain incompetence all rolled up into an administration who were too busy trying to push missile defense to listen to Richard Clarke and the others who tried to warn them what was obviously coming. If those truths were acknowledged, the masses would realize how really vulnerable we were then and still are now, despite the chest beating from the Chimp in Chief and his own personal Skeletor, Chertoff. And since they needed the "catalyst" to get their PNAC agenda going and the fear to maintain it, the Cheney gang covered up all that as long as they could. Well, Iraq showed everyone how incompetent they are at war, and now people are starting to wonder if they weren't incompetent on 9/11.

Jeff, I'll email ya about the linking thing. And on the right is a link to Orcinus - the first and last word on hate groups. Dave and Sara study that stuff for a living, they're great.

Got to admit, there should be a reopening of the investigation.
It seemed bu$h fought hard not to open the first one. The administration couldn't wait for it to close quickly.
Makes me suspect.
At least call the NORAD controllers to the stand and testify. What could it hurt?

But I'm going to believe everything the MSM and the bu$h administration says about 9/11 because they are so trustworthy and would never mislead the public.

Actually, he was the first to call himself a "conspiracy nut," so there!

No, what I actually said was:

Please don't disregard me as a "conspiracy nut". I'm not.

But you did anyway. Which is fine. But just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not after me. 8)

Here's the latest bit I've read.

Dick Cheney: "Of COURSE the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

SoS - here's a little bit more context about NORAD's doings that day - a long, but really excellent article. And of course, Bush fought against investigation, there was the little matter of "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in the US" that they didn't want coming out, as well as the warnings from intel sources around the world, etc. But they're covering up incompetence, not complicity.

And like I told him a while back, he would be interesting if he hadn't come in outta no where and started insulting people because they didn't like Hillary.

Wow! Well color me interesting because that's not at all what I did, Coyote. If you recall, I came out of nowhere with the Edwards joke, which offened everybody (even though they later claimed that they KNEW I was quoting Coultergeist).

I never insulted anybody who doesn't like Hillary. I don't like Hillary. I just think she's gonna win.

Coyote, please share this info you have on Ron Paul and neo-Nazis. Because I looked at Orcinus and all I found was:

BTW, [David] Duke is a big Ron Paul guy this year.

I'm gonna need a little more to go on than that.

But for the record, I am a Libertarian. I'm not a shill for anybody and I have no connections to the party other than I agree with them.

Google orcinus stormfront Ron Paul, that's how I found it after reading it for the first time months ago. Or you could visit their website.

And yeah, that "joke" laughing about Edwards' dead son - hilarious!

Heh, Libertarians: Republicans who fuck and do drugs. Whoopie.

Welp, I'm bored. Maybe you could entertain snark with some more !!9-11 Truths!!

But I'm going to believe everything the MSM and the bu$h administration says about 9/11 because they are so trustworthy and would never mislead the public.

Who said anything about believing something just because Bush said it or it's in the MSM?

And yeah, that "joke" laughing about Edwards' dead son - hilarious!

For fuck's sake, it wasn't my joke and I already ate shit for it. Moving on.

Heh, Libertarians: Republicans who fuck and do drugs. Whoopie.

That's actually really funny! But besides fucking and doing drugs, we also find time to think you should own the property your house is on and shouldn't have to pay income taxes.

Oh, and we also think you should impeach an administration that pisses on the constitution and spies on its own populace.

But let's say 9/11 went down just like you say. We ignored the warnings, we fucked up, but we managed to turn it into an opportunity to do what we've been doing since. Some good, some harm. I guess we'll really never know either way.

In all sincerity, Coyote, I hope you're right. I truly want you to be right with all my heart. I want to believe in the heroes of United 93 and the tragic physics of the twin towers and everything else. I want you to be right about all of that. Because if you're wrong, then we live in truly terrifying times.

And at the very least, you gotta admit I'm interesting. 8) C'mon. You can give me THAT much love. It's not a lot. A little dab'll do!

Who said anything about believing something just because Bush said it or it's in the MSM?

That was my snark, snark, for saying that we need to reopen the 9/11 report.

The commission consisting of bu$h cronies Zelikow and Fielding was more or less rotten to the core. Thomas Kean leading when he has ties to Saudi investors. Lee Hamilton, the same Lee Hamilton who helped on the Iraq Study Group that got ignored by bu$h. The only honorable one was Max Cleland, he resigned due to non-cooperation from the White House.
The whole commission stunk (except for Cleland).

I love how those tapes of NORAD come out 4 years after the fact.

It's just my 2 cents, but I feel it needs to be reopened and investigated further. Without bu$h cabal involvement.

Do you think a new investigation is warranted?

You can give me THAT much love.

Hmm, you're so neeeedy today, I'll oblige with more attention. Think of it as a mercy fuck-with-you!

To me, Libertarians are people who want all the goodies of the social contract, but aren't willing to pay for them.

And sadly, I don't have the power to impeach or I would. Unfortunately, I know it's not going to happen, so I'm not gonna jump up and down about it. The ones whining about it now remind me of a spoiled brat in a Wall-mart screaming "gimme candy!" Can't help it, I just want to slap the kid.

I bristle at the "heroes of United 93" shit, because it just sounds like propaganda. If that went down as advertised, I thinks it's more about the human will to survive more than stop the plane from hitting the WH. And no, we'll never really know, because we're just the masses; the people really running things live in an almost parallel universe that most of the time we never even get a glimpse of, though the internet's breaking down some of those walls.

As for "terrifying times," it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong on 9-11, does it, really? There are "people" out there who have no problem making decisions that kill others; governments, hate groups, serial killers, freaking moms and dads on vacation in Portugal. The world is a terrifying place if you want to dwell on it; always has been, always will be as long as humans rule. I happen to think we'll do lots better if we try to live with the social contract, but that's just me. Seems the world is heading towards regarding it to be as quaint a notion as the Geneva Conventions. Too bad. I think of the two parties, that decline will be slowed more by Dems than the GOP, but civilizations evolve - our kids are so jacked in, all they've ever known is being monitored in some way or another. To them, it'll all be biz as usual. Too bad. We'll be old fogies sitting on a porch saying "In my day we fed the poor and took care of the elderly," and they'll smile and nod indulgently as they rush off to the Colusseum for that day's bread and circus.

SoS - Well, it is NORAD! Ya think they'd just hand over the tapes to any old man on the street?

Do you think a new investigation is warranted?

I think an investigation focusing on the failures that enabled the success of the attacks is warranted.

I think the physical examination of the destruction of the WTC buildings and of the Pentagon is fairly well understood and an 'independent' examination (however that is being defined) would not add much to what we know. When disasters happen it's always easy to look back and find the 'odd coincidences' that facilitated the events. Similarly, when a coincidence occurs that PREVENTS a disaster many ascribe it to 'an act of God'. It's a miracle they say. But really, it's just a coincidence. Had any of the conditions present on September 11, 2001 not been the same the events might not have unfolded as they did. And we might be counting our blessings and talking about how bad the attack might have been had it been a complete success. So again, I think an investigation of how the powers that be performed their duties in the years, months, weeks and days leading up to the attacks might be useful. But I have very little doubt that the WTC towers collapsed as a result of structural failure induced by impact and fire damage on rather unique structural systems when commercial airliners piloted by Islamic fundimentalist hijackers were intentionally crashed into them.

I agree, snark.

iamcoyote: "I think it was simply a series of ignored signals, out-of-date equipment, lax controls, budget constraints and just plain incompetence all rolled up into an administration who were too busy trying to push missile defense to listen to Richard Clarke and the others who tried to warn them what was obviously coming."

BINGO! Bush-Cheney were far more interested in enriching their korporate masters than in actually protecting the country (and of course the resulting side benefit was yet even more enrichment of their korporate masters should have bought Halliburton stock!!!)

iamcoyote: "To me, Libertarians are people who want all the goodies of the social contract, but aren't willing to pay for them."

damn! iamcoyote on a roll today, libertarians are just greedly little children

I think an investigation of how the powers that be performed their duties in the years, months, weeks and days leading up to the attacks might be useful.

I pretty much agree.

I would like to see some of the grieving families get as many answers as possible. Who knows what might be discovered under so many different rocks.

I realize we could never get another one open under bu$h, perhaps a new Dem administration.

Of course the meme has already shifted somewhat to EPA failures and the lung diseases of WTC clean up crews.

All in all it is one huge FUBAR!! Normal for this administration.

BTW, nice to see you comment.

Thanks SoS.

I missed you, too, snark! Look at me! Look at me!

Better watch it! That comment could be construed by some who comment here as being a blanket endorsement of everything I've ever written.

The label Snarkies' Harpie might be coming your way!

The label Snarkies' Harpie might be coming your way!

I can't imagine anyone here being that lame, though, can you?

Hmm, you're so neeeedy today, I'll oblige with more attention. Think of it as a mercy fuck-with-you!

I'll take it! I've taken everything else from you fucking people and I'm still here, so I'll take the mercy as well. 8)

the people really running things live in an almost parallel universe that most of the time we never even get a glimpse of, though the internet's breaking down some of those walls.

See? How can you believe that and still call me a conspiracy nut? I'm just pondering the stuff that goes on behind the curtain, same as you.

As for "terrifying times," it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong on 9-11, does it, really?

Sure it does! Because if you read what the TRUE conspiracy nuts think and where they think this is all going, we're really really fucked. And that's scary. I can deal with the serial killers and axe murderers. World domination and a microchipped population under constant surveillance, now THAT freaks me out.

our kids are so jacked in, all they've ever known is being monitored in some way or another. To them, it'll all be biz as usual.

Doesn't that give us a responsibility to do something about it now?? And no, I don't mean impeach Bush. I mean when they come to you and tell you your kids must be chipped because, "you'd want to be able to find them if they were abducted, wouldn't you?" -- pick up a table lamp and chase them out into the yard.

damn! iamcoyote on a roll today, libertarians are just greedly little children

Are you calling the Founding Fathers "greedy little children"? That's a bit askew, no?

...can you?

Oh, no. Of course not.

One more thing! As long as we're all saying that any future 9/11 investigation should focus on the failures to respond/prevent/whatever, can I just ask one more question?

Can anybody show me a picture of airplane wreckage at the Pentagon?

Are you calling the Founding Fathers "greedy little children"?

You mean the one's who pledged, amongst other things, their fortunes in support of the fledgling nation?

Those founders?

If you haven't seen photos of aircraft debris at the Pentagon site then it's clear that you haven't been reading a very broad spectrum of resources on the events.

THE FOUNDING FATHERS, snark! Jesus, how far back in history does your disdain for this country go??

If you haven't seen photos of aircraft debris at the Pentagon site then it's clear that you haven't been reading a very broad spectrum of resources on the events.

Okay. Show me a picture and it'll be my fault.

I didn't call the Founding Fathers "greedy," actually. And I didn't know they were libertarians. They were a product of the Enlightenment, though. Besides, what do they have to do with this discussion, anyhow? I call diversion!

snark's right, though, from what I understand, a lot of them died penniless after giving up everything for the revolution.

snark's also right about the picture. What? You don't have the google? Or you believe that jet engine sitting on the grass was photoshopped in or something? Really, you must be taking someone else's word for it, or only reading what you want to read and ignoring the rest.

As for my belief that there are a whole bunch of super rich guys are moving and shaking things in the background, don't you? But still, it's a far cry from thinking this idiotic crew could have orchestrated something so huge and not one person has leaked out the info. Dang, they couldn't even run a war out in the open!

THE FOUNDING FATHERS, snark! Jesus, how far back in history does your disdain for this country go??

How did I show disdain for the country OR the founding fathers?

Okay. Show me a picture and it'll be my fault.

Here.

Nothing to do with your fault though. Just your ignorance.

Woo-Hoo 69!

Slut.

You talkin' to me, snark? Shame on you for seventying it! Short fuse??

By the way, oh Mask-ed one, these guys would be willing to discuss what it means to be a "Glibertarian" if you're up to some comedy. You'll probably have fun there, I always do. And if you see "Mooser," he's a closet 911Mulder as well.

I'm totally sincere, here. Read the comments, they love trolls!

Here.

And I'm looking at... what. A hollow piece of fiberglass, maybe sheet metal, about 10-20 feet long? You could probably pick that up and move it, right?

Okay. So where's the other 249,960 pounds of aircraft?

If it helps, that's almost 125 tons of matter.

snark's also right about the picture. What? You don't have the google? Or you believe that jet engine sitting on the grass was photoshopped in or something?

Are you talking about the picture snark put up? Cuz that looks like the rind off a kayak, if a kayak was like a piece of fruit that you could, you know, peel.

It's been a long day. 8)

125 tons of airplane!!! Where'd it go??

Okay. So where's the other 249,960 pounds of aircraft?

And theres a classic example of moving the goal posts folks. The request was for A picture. But now, of course thats not good enough. He needs to see the whole plane. There are many more photos you can look them up yourself.

And you wonder why people dont take you seriously?

Snark, I don't even know what that IS in the picture! That could be a canoe! This is what a plane crash looks like! I don't need to see the whole thing, but that was a big plane! I think it warrants ONE more picture.

Now you're just being silly to keep the thread going. How disappointing.

It's because of dolts like you that people don't take any of the 'inside job' garbage seriously. You'd rather waste peoples time with your nonsense than bother with meaningful debate.