Let's go immediately to Plan C: immediate, unconditional total withdrawal of all U. S. military forces and mercenaries from the land of the Republic of Iraq.
Skip Plan A (more fascistimperialoilnazi aggression) and Plan B (litefascism, slightlylesskilling)...
Posted by james k. sayre at September 11, 2007 12:43 PMLieberman is on. He's spinning for an American military solution (READ: invasion) of Iran. This guy isn't Bush's puppet -- he's Cheney's puppet.
Posted by Christopher at September 11, 2007 01:02 PMthe problem is that politicians pontificate. If, for example, Obama had used his time to level questions and demand answers..Petraeus and Crocker would have been revealed as answerless pawns...but no...Obama used his time to give a campaign speech. Look and see if Hillary does the same.
Posted by T2 at September 11, 2007 01:13 PMThank you, Steve, for a detailed update on what is actually happening at the hearings today, not many of us can be in front of tv's right now, though I'd love to be.
Hopefully now we can get back to the real news of the day instead of over-analyzing MoveOn's ad, which should never have been the issue of these hearings, but by thrusting itself into the spotlight, unfortunately became the issue. We all love MoveOn, but they have at once both overshadowed these proceedings and given the right wing an attack theme we will constantly hear during this presidential campaign as instead of the Dem nominee telling the American people how he or she will end this occupation, he or she will be endlessly fighting off right wing accusations of being a "traitor" or "undermining our troops" or "aiding the enemy" or "attacking a decorated U.S. General during wartime" or "using McCarthy-like tactics" or whatever they'll come up with to graft MoveOn to their hip.
And here's hoping Hillary performs better than Obama did this morning. If Clinton had done this we would never hear the end of it for days. Apparently Biden gave everyone clear warning not to be long-winded with their intros and Obama blew off that advice, failing to perform under the bright lights.
Forgive me if I'm a little cranky but I'm exhausted watching our site splinter like this over a freaking misguided ad. Hopefully we're able to coalesce around a common mission after the primaries.
Media is now reporting that Bush will end the Surge next summer, after 18 months, and re-deploy the 30k troops he sent over there to Surge and end up with the exact same force level in Iraq as was there before the Surge. That's drawing down the force, Bush-style. In other words...doing nothing. By then the Campaign Conventions will be in full force selecting the lucky person who will be blamed for losing the war in Iraq.
Posted by T2 at September 11, 2007 01:25 PMSenate Foreign Relations Not So Easy For Petraeus
Well, I'm sure, now that they know the truth from the MoveOn ad! *smirk* Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Great post for a "lefty."
*snort*
Sorry...
Both Reid and Pelosi need to shift the dynamic from rounding up the votes to stop the war towards making McConnell and Boehner round up the votes to rubber stamp another blank check.
Bingo. It's that easy. "We support the troops but we won't give the president a blank check." Rinse and repeat.
Posted by Daryl at September 11, 2007 01:37 PMWell Steve, as Sen. Boxer told a Republican senator recently,"you don't run the place, we do." You seem to be abrogating your hard won majority by sherking responsiblity of funding our troops. If Harry Reid tells Mitch McConnell what you're saying, I'd be requesting the gavel too. You're not worthy to lead. But, that's me.
Posted by peter at September 11, 2007 01:42 PMI've decided.
I'm supporting Dennis Kucinich for president.
Posted by snark at September 11, 2007 01:59 PMI think Obama nailed it, seven minutes nothwithstanding. Read the text of what he said, the best pontificating so far. Could he have pushed Crocker and Petraeus? Sure, I would have like that too, but it was far from a poor performance as these hearings go.
Posted by RollaMO at September 11, 2007 02:11 PMI thought Obama made some good points, but I was watching it and wondering how long he'd go on. Instead of stating that the surge had nothing to do with the progress in Anbar, he should have [b]asked[/b] Patraeus to explain exactly how the surge, which mostly sent troops to Baghdad, helped in Anbar. Maybe Patraeus has a good answer, maybe not.
Posted by CG at September 11, 2007 02:26 PMForgive me if I'm a little cranky but I'm exhausted watching our site splinter like this over a freaking misguided ad. Hopefully we're able to coalesce around a common mission after the primaries.
What are you talking about, Jeff? People here love a good argument, and that's hard to do when everybody is agreeing. Besides, it's that kind of discussion that can inform the Dem leadership, point out weaknesses, train the candidates for the coming battleground of the election. This is bootcamp, that's all. It's also good for the lurking players to get a good gander at what we think, really think. I'll be they get all sorts of good ideas from places like this.
Posted by Julie at September 11, 2007 02:33 PMJulie's right, Jeff. That's not splintering, that's good clean fun!
I'm supporting Dennis Kucinich for president.
Okay, I'm still waiting for the punchline, here.
Posted by iamcoyote at September 11, 2007 02:44 PMand given the right wing an attack theme we will constantly hear during this presidential campaign as instead of the Dem nominee telling the American people how he or she will end this occupation, he or she will be endlessly fighting off right wing accusations of being a "traitor" or "undermining our troops" or "aiding the enemy" or "attacking a decorated U.S. General during wartime"
I really don't want to keep piling on Jeff, but what makes you think MoveOn's add is necessary to generate this kind of crap? They'll be comparing veteran heroes to Osama no matter what we do. What counts is what we do in response. Hand wringing is not the answer. I liked what Russ Feingold did today. When General sock puppet started spewing the same distorted statistics, he cut him off and reminded everyone, in the room and the nation, that MORE American men and women have died AFTER the surge than died last year. Don't just let them lie. CALL them on it!
Posted by DeminNewJ at September 11, 2007 02:46 PMNo punchline.
I'm supporting Kucinich. That's all.
The dog and pony show doesn't interest me. This occupation is gonna continue until Bush is out of office. Whether the Dems wanna stop it or not.
(sigh)
Julie, NJ, I think debate is totally healthy, and you're right, this is the time to work out what our themes will be for the general election, and I agree that campaigns are reading. But talk of liberal bloggers having blood on their hands and supporting a self-serving ad that gives ammo to the opposition isn't the grandest of discussions. NJ, they will call us traitors and wimps that are waving the white flag in Iraq, I know, but it just seemed MoveOn gave them a way-too-easy theme to start the day with yesterday and all this vitriol aimed at Steve today (and me, I suppose, stemming from my last post) just seemed misguided. In the end, we disagreed over an ad. Now let's, no pun intended, move on, shall we?
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at September 11, 2007 03:07 PMJeff, I agree. Now about Al Gore...
Posted by DeminNewJ at September 11, 2007 03:50 PMWell, you have to admit, Jeff, that if "we" don't give it to them, they just make it up. I'm thinking of all the lies "journalists" like Tweety spouted about Al Gore. Yes, Tweety, if YOU are reading, or any of your people, I still remember you doing that, and I won't forget.
Posted by Julie at September 11, 2007 03:57 PMJeff Dinelli: "We all love MoveOn, but they have at once both overshadowed these proceedings and given the right wing an attack theme we will constantly hear during this presidential campaign as instead of the Dem nominee telling the American people how he or she will end this occupation, he or she will be endlessly fighting off right wing accusations of being a "traitor" or "undermining our troops" or "aiding the enemy" or "attacking a decorated U.S. General during wartime" or "using McCarthy-like tactics" or whatever they'll come up with to graft MoveOn to their hip."
If the Democratic nominee can't handle that "controversy" then they don't deserve to be president.
pants pissing peter: "If Harry Reid tells Mitch McConnell what you're saying, I'd be requesting the gavel too. You're not worthy to lead. But, that's me."
sorry, YOUR quagmire, YOU find the votes. And I would YOU find the money. You want to fund the occupation, then what taxes do you want raised to actually pay for it?
Posted by Gay Veteran at September 12, 2007 10:22 AM