First, Steve, the up or down vote, you push this one too much, Joe Lieberman will switch caucus's. Reid will not be the majority leader. Democrats will not be in control of what happens there. Maybe that would be a good thing since Democrats can't seem to do anything with the control they have now. Maybe that control thing many here rejoiced in last November wasn't such a good thing. It may have been the worse thing that could happen to Democrats.
Your compromise effort may have worked pre 'surge', after General Petraeus started showing some results, with Rep. Baird's recent change. That compromise is gone. Another 'timing' thing. Your third item surenders the control of the senate to Republicans, period. Senator Boxer made that infamous statement several months ago when a Republican senator tried to infer process that Dem's set the process, the agenda. Anything coming out of the senate failing to fund our troops will fall on Democrats shoulders. They will be the fall guy on this.
Another week of "all Iraq all the time". Another week of virtually nothing done on the people's business. How many times do you need to run into a wall before you stop running into the wall. For Democrats that answer seems to be they don't learn from their errors. If "a date certain" wasn't so much an integral part ofthe spring attemps, the Webb compromise may have garnered support. Democrats wouldn't have that, MoveOn wouldn't have that. Reid keeps trying to do his masters bidding and fails. Just like that swing to Lamont last year failed. You just can't approach this issue close minded and that's what Democrats seem to be right now.
There is no "for the good of the country" here. No matter what y'all present that isn't part of the discussion. I mean the real "for the good of the country" discussion, not this hot air being placed into the atmosphere every day. Talk about serious global warming. Democrats seem to be causing a lot this year.
Petraeus has provided a means of a draw down. He also has provided a means of future draw downs. More than just the 'surged' troops next year. Hold your oversight, but fund the mission you sent him on. Even Wes Clark(who someone here really thought so much about when he endorsed HS) has said he's an honest and truthful person...
" But I also, I know Dave Petraeus, and he's not gonna say something he thinks is incorrect, he's not gonna lie, but the truth is relative, it's relative to where you sit and to what your responsibilities are. He sees the war in a certain way, he sees the circumstances in a certain way. Other people might look at the same situation and not being in his shoes might see it differently." from Matt Stoller's interview on Open Left
Let the military do there job. Focus on the people's business. Things to make our lives better. There is so much more than just Iraq all the time.
...22 Senate Democrats found the energy to vote against MoveOn.org yesterday.
Steve,
You should be cheering these DINO Dems.
After all, you were one of the first to find fault with MoveOn.org for their "Gen. Betray Us" ad.
These DINO Dems are the usual suspects who, at the 11th hour, voted to authorize the Bush White House to further engage in domestic spying before they snuck outta' town for their summer holiday.
Everyone of these DINO Dems, from Bayh to DiFi to Webb, should be targeted for removal once their term is up.
What MoveOn.org did was what any political action group does and brilliantly, too.
Posted by Christopher at September 21, 2007 09:47 AMPeter, the military results you claim are based on misleading statistics peddled by Petraeus. Several outside studies have validated that, yet you only want to pay attention to your salesman. That's understandable, but Wes Clark is a naive tool if he thinks that Petraeus isn't a salesman here selling something because the President can't sell it himself. The moment a general peddles incomplete statistics that don't count the full number of attacks, murders, or any car bombings then he has damaged his credibility and can no longer be trusted.
Second, the Democrats already have 50 votes in their caucus without Lieberman, and the GOP has 50 votes with him included in their caucus.
Lastly Peter, no one on your side of the aisle has cared one damn bit about the good of the country for six years now, so please stop the righteous bullshit.
Posted by Steve Soto at September 21, 2007 09:54 AMThe usual suspects... Carper, Mikulski, they seem to vote together a lot.
Hey, Republicans seem to like the job Pelosi and Reid are doing, much more than Democrats. The latest Gallup poll shows that Congress approval went up from 18% in August to 24% in September. Among Democrats, the approval rose from 21% in August to 23% in September. Among independents, it fell from 17% in August to 14% in September. But among Republicans, congressional approval doubled from a mere 18% in August to a whopping 37% in September.
Republicans are mocking congressional Democrats, who have made such a mess of things that Republicans figure they may have a shot next year. Not likely, but the Keystone Kops imitations by Pelosi and Reid and their minions auger well for Republicans — well, better than if Congress actually passed a major piece of legislation that was not some rider to a budget bill.
Watch the indi numbers, they're falling.
The latest Gallup poll shows that Congress approval went up from 18% in August to 24% in September.
ZOGBY has the Nancy and Harry Show at 11% approval.
The lowest in the polling history of ZOGBY. Beating the previous low of 14 percent in July.
“The public mood is not just dark. What’s darker than dark?” Zogby said.
“The mood is getting ugly.”
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1359
Posted by Christopher at September 21, 2007 10:18 AMThere is no "for the good of the country" here.
That's for fucking sure! And you better tell your party leaders to be prepared for the biggest let down ever in "08".
They will lose the Presidency and the Senate will have over 61 Dems!
Name one thing Betraeus has accomplished in Iraq?
Did he finish training the Iraqi Army? Which he started over 3 years ago and was in charge of.
Has he been anywhere else other than Anbar, which was started 5 months before the surge.
Did he have new talking points on Iraq other than bu$h'$ policy?
Has he helped Al Maliki's government? No, in fact the Iraqi's are fleeing the U.S. puppet regime!
He can't even stop a cholera outbreak in Iraq!! It has now spread to Baghdad! No electricity, no potable water, no sewage treatment facilities... the failures are endless!! And you say support him??
There is nothing unique about this General, he is another sycophant for bu$h. If not he wouldn't be there. Every General who has disagreed with bu$h'$ policy has been removed!!
Focus on the people's business. Things to make our lives better.
You wish peter, so every failed attempt at legislation you can continue to parade yourself at TLC like it was the Dems fault.
Go on, get back to your job, you know the part... where you're wearing a dog collar on your knees in front of 'turdblossom' and bu$h is approaching from the rear. Or are you just another hypocritical toe tapper in some public restroom?
If you really cared, you would think of the young soldiers and innocent Iraqi's being maimed and killed!!
But you don't! You only care about the continued division in this country and the money you make!!
Selfish MF!
OUT OF IRAQ NOW!!!
And BTW, I'm pretty sure the Dems would hold the chairs of the committees even if 'loserman' defected and it turned out to be a 50-50 split.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 10:25 AM"Second, the Democrats already have 50 votes in their caucus without Lieberman, and the GOP has 50 votes with him included in their caucus."
Were this true, we wouldn't have Majority Leader Reid. McConnell would be the Majority Leader.
"He shouldn't be above criticism. You should quarrel with the information, don't quarrel with his character." Wes Clark
The sense of the senate vote on the MoveOn ad was appropriate as Wes Clark's statement implies.
The stats or info as Wes calls it, it's hard to tell. The proof I'm seeing is like hospital wards are not very full at all. The morgues do not have the body count they had. Emergency rooms are not seeing the activity they did. All this from Baghdad as reported by Rueters. Shop owners are replacing glass in windows, homes are also getting their windows replaced. Why replace glass when you're only going to see it broke the next hour, day, or week? I saw some shiek was doing an improvement project on some home of his upwards of $100,000. These thing sure backup my sense of the effects on the ground in Iraq.
Recruitment goals are also being exceeded, from the last report in August. Army and Marines getting 105% of their goals. Why would Americans be joining a broke military. That surely didn't happen with Vietnam. People avoided the military in groves.
These are my 'facts', taken from the net. We can discuss them.
All the Dems have achieved in this foolhardy strategy is accept half the blame for failure in Iraq after years of getting NO political capital or respect out of it.
That's so dumb it defies analysis. I refuse to accept even by proxy "half" ownership of a war based on lies that I fought tooth and nail to prevent, and later, at great personal pain and expense, to keep from being used to roll back human rights domestically and abroad.
I want future generations in my own family to know someday that we did not endorse this war of aggression in any way but held fast to the standards of constitutional democracy and a nation of laws even when -- particularly when -- it wasn't 'patriotically correct' to do so.
.
"Baghdad! No electricity, no potable water, no sewage treatment facilities... the failures are endless!! And you say support him??"
After Saddam was deposed, the people went out and brought a lot of electronics, more computers, TV's, stereos, VCR's and DVD's. They went from 3200 megawatts to 4000 megawatts now. No wonder their electrical power is challenged, go look at California. For water, i would say more people are being connected than Saddam allowed. We're trying to place an American standard in Iraq. We're looking at it from our viewpoint.
got to go.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 10:47 AMMeanwhile, I heard on Air America that General Prevaricatus is in the UK trying to sell the Iraq war to the new British PM. Ah, shouldn't his ass be back in Iraq where Bush’s war is raging? Sorry General, but no shows at the West End for you. Get on a plane and fly directly to Baghdad.
Posted by Christopher at September 21, 2007 10:50 AMSteve, how could you give a pass to a Senate censure of MoveOn for a truthful ad if it included censure of dishonest GOP ads? How does censuring MoveOn make any sense at all?
Can't you "get it" yet that the success of the GOP and rightwing is successful because they only fight one enemy, the left. Whereas, the moderate DEMs fight on two fronts: the GOP and the "left." Moderate DEMs will never win this battle because they have chosen not to have a majority. And the GOP loves it when the moderate DEMs express distaste for anything edgy and honest that the left (and MoveOn is hardly radical and was barely edgy with that ad). Did you bother to read Lakoff's analysis of the ad? DEMs shouldn't have needed his "meta" on it to recognize that the ad was exactly the sort of thing that is so sorely missing in the DEM Party. However, it's nice of Lakoff to present it for those a bit slow on the uptake.
It's really rich that you are disturbed by the Senate censure of MoveOn. It was voices like yours, heard all over the blogosphere and on the TV, that gave those "moderate" SEN DEMs license to once again join the GOP. So, before you rail out against Congress again, look in the mirror and find the "old Steve" that would be more helpful because he wouldn't inadvertently give ammo to the GOP to fire back at the "left."
Posted by Marie at September 21, 2007 10:51 AMWhere was the outrage when the Swifties were smearing Kerry? Petraeus is a poltician like Kerry. I don't particularly like to see any military man smeared but I guess there might be exceptions.
Posted by JohnT at September 21, 2007 10:52 AMIf I learned anything in my 11 years in the military, it was that being passive agressive was usually the best way to make a point and acheive the results you wanted.
What the Dems need to do is to draft a bill that pays for whatever amount Bush want to waste in Iraq and but only with funds realized by repealing the tax cuts for the duration of the "War on Terra'" in order to pay for it. This way it will point out who the GOP and Bush really care about...the troops or the upper class. Hey, during WWII, Americans sucked it up and sacrificed...sell the repeal as doing our part to sacrifice for this noble cause.
3 choices...
Congressional GOP vote against it - they don't care for troops
Congressional GOP votes for it, Bush vetos it - Bush doesn't care for troops
Congressional GOP votes for it, Bush signs it, we get the tax cuts repealed.
The GOP has been good at creating no-win situations for the Dems for a long time...it is time we played the game as well.
So I looked at my Senator's votes this week on 4 key issues (habeus corpus, dwell time, pearl clutching & Iraq redeloyment).
Casey: +1+1-1-1=0; ZERO
Specter: +1-1-1-1=-2; TWO LESS THAN ZERO
So my average representation in the Senate is ONE LESS THAN ZERO.
Heck of a job, fellahs. No wonder we're going down the tubes.
SoS,
THE General might even be responsible for the cholera outbreak in Baghdad. Reports I read through Juan Cole this morning suggested that truckloads of chlorine, necessary to detoxify the sewage the poor Iraqis are now drinking, are being turned back because "al Qaeda" set off a few chlorine contaminated truck bombs in months past. I would imagine THE General should be held responsible for another great decision. And you're right, the ass kissing little chickenshit has actually failed, pretty much across the board to accomplish any lasting success, other than "earning" two stars in 3 years, of course.
As for Liberscum leaving the party, that happened a very long time ago, in terms of what's most important. If he were to caucus with the Republics, it would be a 50-50 tie, so no changes could be forced. The DICK would have no vote in Senate organizational matters. Until the next elections or the death or disability of a Democrat, the Committee Chairmanships would remain the same. For what it's worth, he said bitterly.
Posted by DeminNewJ at September 21, 2007 10:55 AMAnn Coulter can call for the murder of those with whom she disagrees with, but God forbide a Liberal dare to speak the truth. Good for MoveOn. I personally support their action. It's about time someone stood up and told the truth, because it sure as hell isn't going to be the Democrats.
The whinny republicans sure don't like receiving a taste of their own medicine. Tough!
Posted by Judith at September 21, 2007 10:58 AMPvt Keepout - that's why many of us were aghast at the Party, pundit and blogosphere endorsement of Casey. Anything more sentient than a pet rock could have beat Santorum last year. But once again, DEMs rallied around a milquetoast DINO -- and as Casey has only delivered what he promised, it's difficult for me to have any empathy for those now wringing their hands and beating their chests about his votes.
Posted by Marie at September 21, 2007 11:10 AMSteve, what makes you think that Reid/Pelosi want to end the occupation? Oh, sure they may like to do that if it means that they could escape responsibility for whatever happens after that or if they could be certain that the situation in Iraq would be better by 11/08 if we were out of there. No, I suspect that the SEN DEMs are merely tossing the hot potato back and forth with GWB and the GOP. Each hoping that the situation in Iraq doesn't change and that will give their party the advantage come 11/08.
How sad that the lives of American servicemen and women and Iraqis are less important than the careers of politicians and their respective parties. Another echo from Vietnam.
Posted by Marie at September 21, 2007 11:19 AMRecruitment goals are also being exceeded, from the last report in August. Army and Marines getting 105% of their goals.
So is that 105% of what goals? The ones that they've reduced 2 or 3 times now to make numbers look reasonable?
Keep diggin' you 'll get there yet
Posted by Simp at September 21, 2007 11:26 AMRecruitment goals are also being exceeded, from the last report in August. Army and Marines getting 105% of their goals. Why would Americans be joining a broke military...
These are my 'facts', taken from the net. We can discuss them
Of course you're right peter.
Now let's discuss them: Never before in history have we had to pay $20,000 enlistment bonuses.
Army data obtained by The Washington Post show that the Army recruited 10,128 new troops in August, 528 more than the monthly goal of 9,600. Last month's recruiting total -- aided by a new $20,000 "quick ship" bonus that spurs people to leave for basic training within 30 days -- was the largest monthly total this fiscal year.It was good for the Army in part, Bostick said, because of the success of the quick-ship bonus, which has been available to almost all new recruits since July 25 and may have encouraged people who were "on the fence" about joining the Army to enlist in recent weeks. He said it is possible that the Army will extend the bonus.
According to Army recruiting data for late July and early August, the quick-ship bonus was extremely popular, with more than 90 percent of new recruits accepting the money in exchange for leaving their homes almost immediately. Bostick said that about 400 recruits who had been scheduled to leave in September opted instead to leave last month to pocket the bonus.
So let's add the recruits who are allowed in with lower test (ASVAB) scores, criminal backgrounds, or drug usage. Hey, good time to be a recuiter.
Take those bonuses away, you have squat!
Come on, let's talk about the bonuses paid to existing service members. My nephew got 40,000 for re-enlisting in the Marines 2 years ago. Of course a navigator doesn't have nearly the same concerns as ground pounders do.
I've heard it's even more for officers.
Please, let's continue this talk of poor people with no insurance being preyed upon.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 11:41 AM
DeminNewJ, Thanks for confirming my suspicions on the 50-50 split.
I really don't see the issue with a "Sense of the Senate" on Betraeus. It's not a law.
The Dems, realizing their error, can now ask for a "Sense of the Senate" for Cleland and Kerry.
The usual suspects... Carper, Mikulski, they seem to vote together a lot.
Mikulski said the other day that she will NEVER vote to cut funding for the troops. She one of the ones who could though--I don't think anyone even runs against her. I don't think it's wise to say never.
Posted by CG at September 21, 2007 11:51 AMI just got an email from MoveOn. As I suspected, they got a big boost of support. They reported that, in the last 24 hours, they got 12,000 donations, of which I was one, for a total take of over $500,000. Take that Harry!
The next paragraph, of course, was a plea for $50 and announcement of a new goal of $1 million. Sigh!
Posted by DeminNewJ at September 21, 2007 11:54 AM...what makes you think that Reid/Pelosi want to end the occupation?
Not me.
The Iraq war is the best campaign ad for 2008 the Democrats could ever wish for and, if it means another 1,000 or 2,000 American soldiers die in the interim, tough shit.
It's all about winning the presidency next year.
Posted by Christopher at September 21, 2007 11:56 AMA line of Harry Reid action figures decked out in fatigues with assault rifles could be the key to overcome his whimp factor.
Sell them in upscale toy stores so they will Trojan Horse their way into GOP homes.
Hey, nothing else seems to be working.....
Posted by TIKI AL at September 21, 2007 11:58 AMas long as the GOP Media controls what the general public hears and sees, the GOP will get away with their spin. Their politicians know this.
Posted by T2 at September 21, 2007 11:58 AM"DeminNewJ, Thanks for confirming my suspicions on the 50-50 split."
A 50-50 split creates the same senate before Jefford's switched party caucus's, from Lott to Daschle in 2001. Committee chairs would change, the majority would change, why else would Reid give Lieberman a chair if he wasn't needed to maintain his.
Recruitement bonuses have always been there, maybe not as high, but they've been there. They've been selling points for a long time. What a piece of crap, Seven, "preying on poor people".
And Pvt., Schumer recruited Casey, take it up with him. He's the one who crowed loudly on his recruitment successes, Tester, Webb, McCaskil, Pryor, his kind of people?
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 12:22 PM"But if the President thinks that by vetoing this bill, he will stop us from working to change the direction of this war, he is mistaken." Reid in May
"Our current strategy is not a strategy for success. It is a recipe for more death and destruction, over-burdening our military and leaving America less secure.
"We approach these discussions with the White House with an open mind and a sincere desire to move forward. But John and Lori Shoup - and all Americans -- deserve to know that our resolve to change course in Iraq will not waver." Reid, later in May
"Last night we sent him another bill that does not go as far as I and many of my colleagues would like, but it does begin the process of holding this President and the Iraqis accountable. This bill:
Ties our military strategy to the Iraqi government meeting 18 important political, economic and security benchmarks." Reid, two weeks later.
75 hearings on Iraq. [And don't forget all of those subpoenas that were authorized and never enforced]
"The American people cannot and should not have to wait until later this year for changes in your flawed Iraq policy. There is an obligation to act now. That is why we intend to again send you legislation that would limit the U.S. mission in Iraq, begin the phased redeployment of U.S. forces, and bring the war to a responsible end." Reid in June
"We still have hope that we can come up with something that will get us a majority of the votes." Reid in September
All quotes hat tip to DKos "BarbinMD"
Welcome to the leadersheep of the senate. Aren't you glad you placed these Democrats in the majority.
Now we know why Republicans like them so much, just listen to him.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 12:45 PM
Take your fucking lies elsewhere peter.
By tradition, the party who held power when someone switches, still retains power until the next election.
Recruitement bonuses have always been there, maybe not as high, but they've been there. They've been selling points for a long time. What a piece of crap, Seven, "preying on poor people".
Bonuses used to be for hard to retain MOS's; few and far between. And for not nearly as much money or as many.
Who do you think is enlisting? The rich college kids, who, if they stay in school are still covered under Mom or Dad's insurance policies?
Now let's talk about the lower recruitment standards petey?
I've even seen where Majority Leader Reid called, or tried to call Senator Craig to get his votes. How desperate is that. Sure shows where Democrats are today.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 12:57 PMSorry Peter,
as I explained is terms so simple, anyone should be able to understand, a tie does NOT force changes, Darth Cheney cannot break this kind of tie and so the status quo will stand. Democrats will control the committees until the next election.
It's truly sad that you seem to think your side,is winning, as if any of them give a long bubbly fart about you. To be so giddy about it is -interesting.
Posted by DeminNewJ at September 21, 2007 12:59 PM"By tradition, the party who held power when someone switches, still retains power until the next election."
I remember Tevia singing about "tradition". In the senate that doesn't hold water. Majority Leader Lott handed over the majority when Jefford's switched his caucus. Senator Tom Daschle took the Majority Leader's office and made all the changes for the new majority in June of 2001. Chair's switched, committees switched, offices switched, the whole thing changed. That's why Senator Joe Lieberman IS the most powerful senator in DC. He can change the whole game by switching his caucus. That is precisely why he has a chaimanship today. That is precisely why y'all dislike him so. You hate him so, but you need him to make the rules.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 01:05 PMThe senate in 2001 was 50-50, with the VP breaking the tie. The senate today is 49-49-2, with the two indi's sitting with Democrats. A 49-49-1-1 creates a tie again, with the VP breaking the tie. Who's in majority is decided by the VP. If Joe changes sides, a tie is renewed and VP Cheney gets a say. No smoke, no mirrors, just the fact.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 01:10 PMNo wonder their electrical power is challenged, go look at California.
WTF?! Enron is now in charge of the Iraqi power system?
Posted by bartcopfan at September 21, 2007 01:10 PMThe maximum age of non-prior service enlistment, under federal law used to be age 35. In 2006 the Army convinced Congress to change this to age 44. The Pentagon did settle on 42 for the Army. The Marines went up from 25 to 28. That helps recruiters a even more.
Active duty Army - 42 Army Reserves - 42 Army Natinal Guard - 42 Active duty Air Force - 27 Air Force Reserve - 34 Air National guard - 34 Active duty Navy - 34 Navy Reserves - 39 Active duty Marines - 28 Marine Corps Reserves - 29 Active duty Coast Guard - 27 Coast Guard Reserves - 27Age waivers are possible for those with prior military service.
Let's don't forget the Pentagon's "Moral Waiver Study":
In 2004, the Pentagon published a "Moral Waiver Study," whose seemingly benign goal was "to better define relationships between pre-Service behaviors and subsequent Service success." That turned out to mean opening more recruitment doors to potential enlistees with criminal records.
Better trolls please! Where is bags?
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 01:15 PMIn January, 2001, there was a 50-50 tie, organized by the VP Gore's vote towards the Dem.
When Cheney was swarn in on January 20th, 2001, the tie was reversed with VP Cheney's vote towards the GOP.
In June, 2001, Jeffords switched to indi caucusing with Democrats(50-49-1) or 51-49.
We are now at 49+2-49. A switch creates a 49+1-49+1 tie. VP Cheney gets his say then just as he did in 2001.
Go find another "Jefford's" and Joe becomes just one of the guys.
Another week of "all Iraq all the time". Another week of virtually nothing done on the people's business. How many times do you need to run into a wall before you stop running into the wall.
Peter, you may have set a new standard. You seem to be a disgusting stew of Bush/Cheney/Coulter/Limbaugh/Kristol/Wolfowitz, all mixed in with blood, vomit and body bits. I hope you can enjoy. You make me sick, and that's not easy to do.
Posted by tempus at September 21, 2007 01:28 PMDon't need it, because you're wrong peter.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 01:29 PMmarie, peter,
It's important these days to criticize, diminish or otherwise demonstrate deferential truancy towards these miscreants. Even at the risk of gratuitous patronization.
Good of you to add castigation of center right endorsements of Casey though, but let's not forget Rendell in our calumniations. Alas, Pennacchio would've been far superior, but SSgt Kimberly Voelz got my Nov '06 (write-in) vote. She was a better man than Casey. Still is.
Regards,
P.S. Thanks for not saying anything about misspelling "habeas."
DemNewJ-that MoveOn email is pretty interesting. AmericaBlog posted quite a few of the emails they were getting...most from either soldiers in Iraq or their families thanking MoveOn for being their voice. Granted, MoveOn is using the emails for $ purposes but they also make for solid pushback against GOP/Bush ethics quackery. Granted the ad made me wince but maybe I forgot that the soldiers' needed a voice and the Dems certainly haven't been able to be that voice, yet.
http://www.americablog.com/
"Yesterday, almost two weeks after the ad ran, MoveOn found itself in an unenviable position: almost universally condemned by Senate Democrats and Republicans.
Once Republicans started circulating an amendment that would blast MoveOn for "impugning the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the U.S. Armed Forces," Democrats wrote their own version that criticized the MoveOn ad but also denounced Republicans for attacking the military record of Kerry in 2004 through the Swift boat ads.
Between the two measures, nearly every member of the Senate had repudiated MoveOn, including Democratic presidential contender Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) and Obama, who both voted for the Democratic version that did not include MoveOn's name but said there had been an "unwarranted personal attack" on Petraeus."WashPost today
And Elizabeth Edwards makes it all three of the first tier Democrats taking issue with MoveOn. The Senate Democrats said "unwarranted personal attack", all of them said "unwarranted".
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 01:36 PMContinue on the Betraeus meme peter.
The deflection is for the debacle in Iraq.
People are dying! Get out of Iraq now!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 01:46 PM
Not going to happen. In this admin or the next two, we're there to stay for a while. Rant all you want, we're there and we're staying. This isn't Vietnam, losers aren't going to triumph this time. We will keep our word and the world will respect us for it's keeping.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 01:51 PM"Whatever their publicized angst over Saddam Hussein's 'weapons of mass destruction,' American and British authorities were also concerned about violence in the area that harbors a resource indispensable for the functioning of the world economy. I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil." - Alan Greenspan
So, it turns out that Bush and Cheney really did lie to the UN and to the American public about the reasons the US had to invade Iraq. There were never any WMD -- it was always about the oil.
Yet, Speaker Botox insists, "Impeachment is off the table." Why is Miss Nancy protecting Bush?
You're the fucking loser peter.
Christ Christopher... with all the new FISA shit? He's got a boat load of incriminating evidence against her.
You didn't really think this was to spy on terrorist's did you? It was to see what he could get on his politcal enemies.
And it's worked to perfection.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 02:12 PMProbably the best way to accelerate the end of the hapless, unsustainable American Empire is to pig-headedly sit in the Iraq quagmire for another decade. Hell, three years will likely do it. So cheer on your Empire's destruction peter, you cretin.
The costs (both direct and indirect) will be ruinous, and will destroy the economy, and for no real "gain" whatever. It will also break the All Volunteer Force, as the current bounties, bonuses and prizes can't be paid forever when the federal government goes into a hopeless fiscal position. And if we do, such militaristic priorities will be at the expense of other more pressing and sensible needs.
Dopes like peter see us "winning" something in Iraq and "earning" the world's "respect". One can't be more clueless from a strategic/diplomatic viewpoint. Respect is not what Murica is earning, and "victory" has long been defined away by Bushco itself. But again, this is the most certain route to destruction of the Empire and it's quite comical watching semi-retarded Southern Imperialists like peter drooling all over themselves.
America will fail as a result of Iraq and its insane militarism.
Posted by euzoius at September 21, 2007 02:18 PMI called Sen. Reid's office and demanded (firmly but politely) that he get it together and take it strong to the Republicans. The staffer on the phone responded with the verbal equivalent of a shrug and that was it...
Posted by Ploopder at September 21, 2007 03:16 PMChrist Christopher... with all the new FISA shit? He's got a boat load of incriminating evidence against her.
Like her investment portfolio?
Heavy war profiteering, a la, Dianne Feinstein, who also has her patrician nose up Bush's rectum for protection?
This isn't Vietnam, losers aren't going to triumph this time. We will keep our word and the world will respect us for it's keeping.
Posted by pants pissing peter at September 21, 2007 01:51 PM
Petie you need a radio or newspaper subscription...the whole fucking world hates us....
Posted by Goyo at September 21, 2007 05:06 PMThey hate us, yep, that's why everyone wants to come here. That's why immigration is such a problem. That's why our embassies are so busy processing paperwork to come here. That's why people come accross our boarders illegally. That hate, well gee wiz. I don't think so.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 06:47 PMGallup has asked Americans about Petraeus three times, beginning in early August of this year. Americans' ratings of Petraeus have consistently been more positive than negative in all three surveys. In early August, 47% of Americans rated Petraeus favorably, with 21% rating him unfavorably and 32% having no opinion. Petraeus' favorable rating edged up slightly, to 52%, in the final days before his congressional testimony on the situation in Iraq. Now, after last week, his post-testimony favorable rating has jumped to 61%. Petraeus' name identification -- the percentage of Americans who know enough about him to have an opinion -- also jumped from 69% in early September to 83% this past weekend."
Thanks MoveOn for his increasing favorable rating and making sure more Americans know enough about him to have an opinion. Great result, keep up the good work.
Posted by peter at September 21, 2007 07:27 PMNotice the tactics folks... trying to keep us on the inconsequential MoveOn ad.
"Favorable rating", yes. Believe him? NO!
peter, the world knows it was the bu$h administration's words.
I guess you missed the Jon Stewart tape of Betraeus repeating administration talking points. VERBATIM!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 08:06 PMFuck peter, the bankrupt designated GOP troll. We will be fleeing Iraq in our socks within a year.
The across the board shitstorm facing idiot amerikkka is like nothing any of us have ever seen in our life times.
The dollar is now wrecked. The deficits W created defy ready solution.The planets nations are increasingly furious. Our main export is debt.
Continued war in Iraq will soon be an evil quaint fools errand undone by the planetary economic disaster imposed by our greed and stupidity.
Posted by Chris Rich at September 21, 2007 08:41 PMIt sure is going to be embarrassing when Hillary Clinton becomes the first female president and defeats one of the 4-5 best known men in America, Rudy Giuliani. Seeing him walk away with his tail between his legs will be hilarious.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 08:43 PMChris, welcome back!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 21, 2007 08:44 PMThey hate us, yep, that's why everyone wants to come here. That's why immigration is such a problem. That's why our embassies are so busy processing paperwork to come here. That's why people come accross our boarders illegally. That hate, well gee wiz. I don't think so.
Posted by pants pissing peter at September 21, 2007 06:47 PM
So sorry Peter....I forgot about the poor uneducated "ne'er do wells" who want to escape abject poverty....I was thinking more about those with an education who won't becoming to further their stem cell expertise etc. Continue to live in your dream world Petie...your team is done...stick a fork in them....your tirades about who will have the deciding vote in a 50-50 Senate will be a moot point by Nov 2008....
OH PETIE the spelling lesson: It's Borders...not Boarders...Across not Accross....btw..is english a second language to you??
Posted by Goyo at September 22, 2007 09:25 AMSometimes it is, a great indication of how good our education system. What's a browser without spell check, where's Firefox when you need it.
Posted by peter at September 22, 2007 12:18 PM...eem to be a disgusting stew of Bush/Cheney/Coulter/Limbaugh/Kristol/Wolfowitz...
Ahhh. The perfect homunculus of the new republi-con man.
Things are great in Eye-raq! "Democracy Diarrhea" is spreading throughout Baghdad! The military is so strong that 60% of West Point graduates and 40% of senior non-coms refuse to reenlist! By god, all they need is a little more time -because 4 years is not enough; $50 billion more than last time -to replace what Betrayus lost in cash and weapons; and a few more dead Towel Heads -because 1.2 million are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to showing our resolve.
And by god, we are not going to lose again! We will win in Eye-raq. Not like when we were keeping the communists from spreading throughout the world with Vietnam. This is a football game we have to play for keeps regardless of the cost in lives or to the economy.
And them Russians and their setting off the largest bomb, resuming nuclear bomber flights, and supporting those we have an issue with...why, it's just like that GEICO ad. Little peter with the Cheeto spooge on his face and hands comes running around the corner. And when asked if his kind are responsible for this, he just says "No."
Posted by phidipides at September 23, 2007 10:29 AMwow, pants-pissing peter must be paid by the word
and what a stoopid troll, a resolution to change control of the Senate is subject to a filibuster so the ReThugs cannot regain control this week (and there won't be many ReThugs left in the Senate after next year, ROFLOL)
Posted by Gay Veteran at September 24, 2007 07:54 AM