With these spineless, gutless, clueless and leaderless, so call, democrats it's all about the money! cleve
Posted by cleve at October 20, 2007 07:25 AMI have a stupid question. So if my privacy has been violated, I can't take my telecom company to court, I have to sue the federal government over the FISA bill? How the hell am I gonna be able to afford that kind of a lawsuit?
That's the whole point, isn't it?
Wow. We are falling farther and farther down the rabbit hole. Note to self: make sure your ACLU dues are updated.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at October 20, 2007 07:37 AMWho was that guy on the Sopranos that Carmela got a crush on? Ah, Furio.
Our supposed representative government is now pure Furio. Yeah we know you're a dyke Mikulski, who cares, but what about your extended family? Shame if something happened to them.
Posted by Sharkbabe at October 20, 2007 07:56 AMWhat a bucket of horse shit the Dems are trying to sell as ambrosia.
Even were there a reliable way to tell if the consumer's privacy was violated, whether for probable cause or not -- and warrants should issued only under the strictest of guidelines -- the Fascist Committee simply doesn't have the authority to remove recourse from the customer to find out if the TOS was violated and to seek refunds &/or damages.
It's just such a crock. What's to keep companies from turning over generic private information to assist the One Party fascists in keeping track of personal enemies, whether individuals or the Usual Suspects (like academics, artists, outspoken "elements" traditionally opposed to authoritarianism?)
I don't trust corporations and government for a minute to behave responsibly if allowed to draw the curtain completely around themselves.
This is enough for me NOT to vote Dem at all in '08 unless there's a distinct show of sanity from the party.
Letting this go without a pass is worse than, eg, another stolen Repug election, which would be so obviously stolen the people and media would have no choice but to condemn it as hard as despotic "elections" when everyone hates the winners' guts that polls show was returned to office in a 98% landslide.
There's simply no reason for someone like me to support the Dems ever again. All the Dems besides my own that I helped out in the last elections turned out to be treacherous Bush Dogs and saboteurs of any fight the progressive Dems tried to mount.
(My particular reps & sens are liberal in a safe district but the party has become extremely anti-constitution, anti-reproductive rights, pro-war, pro-torture, among other things, and they show no sign of changing.)
I can more efficiently support the causes I care about away from the ballot box.
Posted by Ellie at October 20, 2007 08:26 AMI live in Baltimore and it is increasingly apparent that Barbara Mikulski is WORTHLESS.
I stopped donating to the Dems after the last FISA outrage.
We are now like a Third World country where a korporation can BUY immunity.
What's up next? Political violence, and then we will know we're on the fast track to hell.
Posted by gay veteran at October 20, 2007 09:18 AM"I don't trust corporations and government for a minute to behave responsibly if allowed to draw the curtain completely around themselves." Ellie
Tell me Ellie, would you want this very same government running your healthcare? I know it's not the topic, just wondering. NHC would be able to do the very same as you're loathing here.
"... the Fascist Committee simply doesn't have the authority to remove recourse from the customer to find out if the TOS was violated and to seek refunds &/or damages."
Another of these committees set up FISA, if there is authority to set it up, there is authority to amend it. You get what you vote for and this is it. And what a conflict between Whitehouse and Nelson is reeling here. A fav voting for and a target voting against. Another, be careful what you wish for.
Jeff, if you're one of the 700, or one of the many, class actions are available. One wouldn't have to shoulder the whole cost alone. And anyhow, how would you know if your privacy was abridged? Someone would have to tell you, I'm sure noticing it yourself would be very hard to detect.
omg, from kos: "...And Hillary? Well, apparently her position on retroactive immunity for law-breaking phone companies is still being focus group tested, so it'll be a while before we know where she stands on the issue...."
Posted by gay veteran at October 20, 2007 09:46 AMThis only reinforces one of my basic beliefs:
Republicans are corporate whores.
Dems are corporate lap dancers.
Peter, my late spectacular mom -- RIP and lived far beyond and comfortably what a congenital ailment would normally have allowed -- was Canadian. The health care system works far better than the US one, which is in the thrall of profiteering special interests (pharm, insurance, bottom-line providers), is more interested in profits than healing and shown to be ruinous not just for health but in the dollars it costs in lost productivity and waste of vital health resources.
There's also more incentive under a Canadian-style (or Euro-style) health care system to encourage prevention and employ innovative, streamlined care that actually works. Because it's open and accessible, patients have access to rights and recourse.
The opaque, private backroom govt/corp dealing in the FISA situation strips the taxpayer and consumer of recourse and redress. Its closed is a recipe for corruption.
Posted by Ellie at October 20, 2007 10:06 AMI can more efficiently support the causes I care about away from the ballot box.
Karl Rove will be happy to hear that.
I agree with your disgust with the DemonCratic party.
However, come 2008 I will be voting AGAINST the Republican nominee for president by connecting the line on my ballot appearing next to whoever has the word "Democrat" under their name.
I will only contribute $ to individual candidates, especially progressives running competitive primary challenges against incumbent conservative Dems. Need to purge this party. Too bad we don't have viable 3rd parties here but that's how it is.
Republicans are corporate whores.
Dems are corporate lap dancers.
Lap dancers less likely to start WWIII and less efficient at promulgating the police state.
Posted by TrainWreck at October 20, 2007 10:40 AMLap dancing to the Sade song "Your cash is king"?
Posted by Sharon at October 20, 2007 10:44 AMYeah Sharon, "The ruler of my heart..."
Posted by Seven of Six at October 20, 2007 10:47 AMKarl Rove will be happy to hear that
I don't give a shit. He's happier to be working behind the scenes with crap Dems like Reid and Pelosi, and with Bush Dogs that Emanuel and Schumer recruit with money dupes like myuself contributed through the netroots to help Dems take back Congressl.
My "reward" for that involvement, in addition to watching this appalling year, was actually seeing right wing Dem assholes use their office to roll back reproductive rights so that women's access to CONTRACEPTION is being impeded now.
This may not work for everyone but I'm just not going to support a system of Republican Imperial One Party Rule and a Potemkin opposition for the camera only. My $$$ is going to causes, proven progressives and indy media. I'll reward good behavior AFTER I see it (not beforehand, only to be betrayed, again and again.)
And I'm not deciding whether I'm voting for the Prez candidate until a year from now. BTW, I did show Dodd some love so if he keeps it up, I will too.
.
So tell me Ellie, why are our northern states hospitals doing such a big businees with Canadians? Why did that guy with apendicitis(sp) get told there's not 1. a surgeon or 2. no beds available in Ontario at five hospitals and was forced to ride in an ambulance to Montreal some 110 miles away.
Why was that pregnant mother told there's no room at any hospital in Calgary, the third largest city in Canada at 1.2 million people? She was sent (airlifted by helicopter) to a small town of 56,000 people in Montana to deliver her quad daughters, the town had 26 neo-natal beds, Canadian mom, 4 US daughters. Why in England was another pregnant lady turned away from two NHS hospitals for no room, at one they were told, "go get a cup of coffee and they'll see if they can free up a room." The husband ended up delivering the baby himself.
The horror, if America had the very same conditions as Canada, where would these people go? Mexico? Cuba?
Ellie, I'm glad your mother had a great experience with Medicare or the NHS in Canada. I'm glad she didn't have to be inconvenienced by the delays being encountered now. Our government, to many here, mishandled Katrina in NO. Do you want thet same government running healthcare? Do you want Republicans or Democrats deciding what's covered or how much you need to pay. I don't think so.
"Lap dancers less likely to start WWIII", but more likely to press a button. "I didn't know that would happen."
Posted by peter at October 20, 2007 12:17 PMperhaps pants-pissing peter can explain why "socialist medicine" doesn't result in people going into bankruptcy because of medical bills or lack of medical care because of "pre-existing conditions". Wanker.
Totally agree with Ellie, NO $ to the national Democratic Party.
Posted by gay veteran at October 20, 2007 12:46 PMHey peter they got you working Saturdays?
Posted by Seven of Six at October 20, 2007 01:07 PM"Lap dancers less likely to start WWIII and less efficient at promulgating the police state."
Exactly my point. Lap dancers only tease. No fuckee yoo.
Posted by TIKI AL at October 20, 2007 01:21 PMBut the cash in their G-strings comes from the same place.
Posted by TIKI AL at October 20, 2007 01:24 PMIf Rockefeller and Reid are willing to sell the Constitution, the least they should do is offer it on e-bay and allow us a chance to bid to keep it intact.
Over the last 200 plus years, millions of Americans have died to protect our Constitutional way of life, that alone should make it worth more than a few hundred thousand dollars.
Posted by MO Blue at October 20, 2007 01:33 PMThank you Steve for providing the links and information necessary for all of us to write these stinking traitors. Done and done.
Posted by jen at October 20, 2007 01:52 PMYeah Seven, somebody has to work for a living, can't lay around the pool every Saturday like you Democrats.
Posted by peter at October 20, 2007 04:01 PMthe weekend, brought to you by the hardworking members of America's UNIONS
Posted by gay veteran at October 20, 2007 04:19 PMPeter, I'm not going to debate your ex rectum commentaries, as I'm quite happy with the care I saw first hand my mom get -- down to her choice of therapies available for her ailment(s) -- and have personally had the opportunity for comparison.
The bottom line is this: people prefer to be well, to be able to work and strive and be fairly rewarded for effort.
The corporate, privatized ideologically based model of sucking humanity dry for cheap labor and -- as was suggested in the case of the Graeme Frost and little Bethany -- that they be hanged or otherwise disposed of is not only unacceptable for a just society but ruinous to its material foundations as well. It benefits no one in the long run.
Posted by Ellie at October 20, 2007 04:40 PMEllie: "Peter, I'm not going to debate your ex rectum commentaries...."
thank you Ellie
and pants-pissing peter, Dear Leader needs for you to go to your local Army recruiting center and ENLIST you yellow cur
Posted by gay veteran at October 20, 2007 06:55 PMEllie: "Peter, I'm not going to debate your ex rectum commentaries...."
Rectum... hell, damn near killed him!
Thanks gay veteran for mentioning folks who are still Union (family) members... trying to hang on to the American Dream!
Posted by Seven of Six at October 20, 2007 07:22 PMEllie, don't forget, peter's arguments are worthless and only intended to disrupt, delay, and cast doubt on Democrats. His arguments are NEVER valid because he is our enemy. He wishes to cause us all harm because he supports the right wing fascists. He is actually actively trying to destroy the constitution of this country, regardless of what anybody else is doing, so he should be scorned and spit upon.
A piece of shit, even if it looks like baby jesus or Elvis, is still a piece of shit.
Posted by Duckman GR at October 20, 2007 10:08 PMEllie, perhaps you overlooked this part of my previous post...
"Ellie, I'm glad your mother had a great experience with Medicare or the NHS in Canada. I'm glad she didn't have to be inconvenienced by the delays being encountered now."
Maybe this one will tell the story...
Abortion wait in Ottawa hits six weeks
Abortion-rights advocates say delays can cause health risks and lead to emotional stress
REBECCA DUBE
From Monday's Globe and Mail
October 1, 2007 at 9:25 AM EDT
Look up, Kate Cushon from Saskatoon, in the comments section
or...
Calgary's quads: Born in the U.S.A.
No beds in Canada forces mom to Montana
or...
Hospital had to send man to Montreal for surgery
Ambulance got 'lost' on the way after no doctors found here
Laura Drake
The Ottawa Citizen
- At Wakefield's Gatineau Memorial hospital, a doctor determines that there is a problem with Mr. Bureau's appendix. Calls are made to hospitals in Hull, Gatineau, Maniwaki, Buckingham and Ottawa to find a surgeon. A surgeon cannot be found.
- 8:25 p.m. -- Robert Bureau, Dany's father, receives a call informing him that a surgeon is available at the Montreal General Hospital.
- Oct. 14, 12:10 a.m. -- The surgeon who operated on Dany Bureau tells his father that his appendix had burst and that he had developed peritonitis. As a result, he is hospitalized for several days so his recovery can be monitored.
or...
Father delivered baby after partner was turned away from NHS hospital - TWICE
needs repeating: perhaps pants-pissing peter can explain why "socialist medicine" doesn't result in people going into bankruptcy because of medical bills or lack of medical care because of "pre-existing conditions". Wanker.
Duckman's analysis of our neo-authoritarians is correct
Posted by gay veteran at October 21, 2007 06:31 AM