Michael Mukasey is just another worthless lying whore for Bush torture and the Bush monarchy...
Maybe it's time to:
Laugh Bush out of the White House, laugh every Saturday at Noon for 15 seconds…
Mr. Bush recently seems to be getting quite testy and a little tired of being stuck in the White House. Millions of Americans are also extremely of Mr. Bush long-time residence in the White House. Perhaps if we all take fifteen (15) seconds to all laugh at Bush at the same time, say each Saturday at Noon maybe Mr. Bush will finally get embarrassed, quit and move south to that lovely Ranchero that awaits his presence in rural Paraguay. The vast pampas brush awaits, you, Sir. It really needs a good trimming, Sir.
P. S. if you find this message interesting, please pass it on to blogs, relatives, Congresswomen and corporate lobbyists. Remember, she who laughs last, laughs best…
Is it possible that Mukasey thinks Bush might withdraw his nomination if he says he believes that water-boarding is torture and is illegal? Maybe he just wants to get the job first and then declare it illegal. Am I just dreaming?
Posted by CG at November 2, 2007 10:52 AMyes, CG, you are dreaming.
I just heard Bush giving his one and only speech to yet another military audience...these new recruits headed for Iraq (or as our State Dept. employees put it "suicide"). Bush's said the same things..9/11, fight them there instead of here, won't look at polls, bla bla bla. Same shit he's shoveled for years. But what struck me was the demeanor and faces of the young people behind him, soon to be watching their foot fly off due to an EID. So many of them wore glasses...and so many were women. Women marching off to combat...not combat against Tim Russert and Chris Matthews, but against real guns and bombs. I couldn't help think of the uproar over the horrible, sexist treatment Hillary got at the debate tuesday - rising to the level of abuse, according to some. Beats the shit out of having your arm blown off, huh Hil. Think about it.
Once they are gone, Bush and his henchmen can be repudiated...
That's the problem, they can't be. They will have left with their terms completed. Where is the repudiation? That is validation, and the country is forever stained by the dishonor of having allowed them to continue.
"If you support the use of waterboarding on enemy captives, you support the use of that torture on any future American captives."
Waterboarding is Torture...Period
by Malcolm Nance, Small Wars Journal, Oct 31, 2007
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/
It's not a difficult concept; every Senate Judiciary Committe member understands it. The vote will reveal their allegiance.
And every soldier knows loyalty is a two way street.
off thread but I can't let this pass..Rudy=Bush today: "I'm very reluctant to take away presidential prerogatives and decision making, maybe because I've faced crisis more than the other ones have," said Giuliani. The "other ones" being the GOP candidates. I wonder if Rudy=Bush thinks being shot down in a fighter plane, captured by the Viet Cong and put in a rat-hole for several years doesn't count as a "crisis"? The war between McOld and Rudy=Bush is heating up.
Posted by T2 at November 2, 2007 11:58 AMThey will not be reputiated if they ae allowed to finish their terms in the White House. They have so wounded our country that recovery may be an impossibility if they are left to further desecrate the Constitution. These people MUST be impeached and convicted of high crimes against the US and the world.
When I say "they" I mean bushcheneyrumsfeldriceroveetc.
yes, CG, you are dreaming.
Well I tried.
Posted by CG at November 2, 2007 12:18 PMBush has hinted he won't nominate another AG if Multorture is dumped. That would be an abdication of one of the duties of his office....there's your high crime, right Tom Belt?
Posted by T2 at November 2, 2007 12:22 PMThe Congress has the ability to pass a law making waterboarding illegal. Simple solution to the problem: pass such a law.
Question: with the Congress in the hands of the Democrats, why doesn't Congress pass such a law?
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 12:28 PMBush would veto it, stupid.
Posted by T2 at November 2, 2007 12:41 PMQuestion: with the Congress in the hands of the Democrats, why doesn't Congress pass such a law?
Answer: Republi-con Obstructionists!
Posted by Seven of Six at November 2, 2007 12:41 PM"Bush would veto it, stupid."
"Answer: Republi-con Obstructionists!"
Are you telling me that under the leadership of Senator Reid and Congresswoman Pelosi a veto-proof majority cannot be formed? Are you telling me that a sufficient number of representatives -- representing their constituents, and concerned about re-election -- will not support such a law?
Or are you telling me that all this hand-wringing about the rights of terrorists is simply political grandstanding...posturing?
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 01:14 PMAre you telling me that under the leadership of Senator Reid and Congresswoman Pelosi a veto-proof majority cannot be formed?
yes.
Posted by T2 at November 2, 2007 01:17 PM"yes"
Wow, sorry about that. I know you folks were counting on Democratic majorities to move forward with your progressive agenda.
My condolences.
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 01:22 PMWell, of course this is a matter of enormous principle and Gen'l Mike's refusal to declare waterboarding to be torture means he shouldn't be the AG.
But virtually every REPUB senator will still vote for him. The toxic poison of Bushism cannot start to be diluted as long as the current Repub party maintains its power. The Country will wallow in sewage and muck until Repubs are destroyed as an effective political force. They are the ultimate problem.
Conservatism has brought the country very low, that needs to start being said, day after day, hour after hour, by every Dem officeholder.
Posted by euzoius at November 2, 2007 01:47 PMBush is not a Conservative.
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 01:48 PMYeah, Bush/Cheney only got 100% of the conservative vote in 2 presidential elections, with every known movement conservative pissing their pants with adoration and blind support for him.
Does your brain really work this way? That you think you can now just declare that the Bushist movement isn't really "conservative"? No wonder your appalling side can't think straight---"We are now at war with Oceania"!
Posted by euzoius at November 2, 2007 02:17 PM"Yeah, Bush/Cheney only got 100% of the conservative vote in 2 presidential elections..."
Yes they did. The alternative was worse.
"....with every known movement conservative pissing their pants with adoration and blind support for him."
Not quite.
"That you think you can now just declare that the Bushist movement isn't really 'conservative'?"
No, I have always maintained the President Bush was not a conservative.
"'We are now at war with Oceania'!"
Have you actually read this book by George Orwell, or is this a talking point of yours? Do you know anything about George Orwell?
Mine too, of course I knew this would happen after all the hoopla died down last December. Same old Congress, new management virtually same as the the old. Senator Schumer seems to be sticking with Mukasey. Mukasey's his guy. If he goes down, we'll just go without, it's only another 13 months or so. Maybe use the Mukasey vote as a club on Democrats, all the nice things said early and then to vote against him. We'll let the WH dictate Justice Dept. policy unchecked while we're doing without. Democrats just like this WH so much, come on folks urge you senators to do it.
And that impeachment talk, convicting with this senate, you've got to be kidding. You are laughing now aren't ya?
Posted by peter at November 2, 2007 02:48 PM"The Congress has the ability to pass a law making waterboarding illegal. Simple solution to the problem: pass such a law."
Bagley, waterboarding is already illegal. The real question is why are we torturing at all? Waterboarding has always been considered torture, and has been for 500 years.
ARTICLE 3: Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
During the Spanish Inquisition, Colonial Times, World War II/Gestapo and the Kempeitai, Vietnam War and the Khmer Rouge, waterboarding was used. Again, the question is not whether it is torture or not, because it has always been considered illegal torture, but why are we doing it, period. Congress doesn't need to pass a law that is already in place and signed by the United States
Posted by Judith at November 2, 2007 02:55 PM
We agreed to and signed the Geneva Convention Articles. The International Law has been corrupted by this Administration, much as everything else has been corrupted.
Bagley believes that all Congress has to do is pass another law (although there is already a law) against waterboarding, and Bush would respect that law. I tell ya, the jokes just keep coming.
Posted by Judith at November 2, 2007 03:05 PM"Bagley, waterboarding is already illegal."
If it already illegal, then why the fuss?
Geneva Convention?
Might you cite the articles addressing "illegal combatants?"
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 03:13 PMThe fuss is that Bush is waterboarding (and plans to continue) despite its being currently illegal. Duh.
We can't have an actual AG because our president is breaking the law in many areas, like torturing detainees, and we refuse to do anything about holding him accountable. You can't have an AG if you have no intention of following the rule of law. That's pretty basic.
It's up to the judges to control the out of control DOJ at this point---there's no reason to have an AG under Bush, it's a farce.
And bagger my quoting of "this book by Orwell" wasn't a talking point---it was just a mockery point directed at you and fellow "Bush isn't a conservative!" up-is-downers. If anything your "Bush isn't conservative" statement is the talking point---mine's just a literary quote, which shows the credulous nature of your slogan-based "conservative" bowel-movement.
Posted by euzoius at November 2, 2007 03:53 PMCNN noted in their report on waterboarding that Al Gore had to undergo the procedure in his Special Ops training.
Too bad they didn't have a torture class entitled: Supreme Court election theft 101.
Posted by TIKI AL at November 2, 2007 03:54 PM"...it was just a mockery point directed at you and fellow "Bush isn't a conservative!" up-is-downers..."
Sorry, euzoius, I did not know that you were more capable of defining a Conservative than me (me...a Conservative...you, a "Progressive").
P.S. So I take it you have never read 1984? It is a very short story: if someone helps you, you may be able to read it before your next post.
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 04:06 PMBush isn't conservative. Bush is a Reich Wing Wacko Fundi Nut who likes booze and cocaine.
Posted by Judith at November 2, 2007 04:25 PMnow that's a hoot...an idiotic moron like bagbutt making references to Orwell...book's too long for your 1st grade reading and reasoning skills, baggbutt..
Posted by headxray at November 2, 2007 04:34 PMheadxray,
Want to play?
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Bagley at November 2, 2007 04:41 PM"Might you cite the articles addressing "illegal combatants?"
Oh, I see. In your book the humane treatment of people does not apply to "illegal combatants" (whatever that means), and there are no rules. Well hell, let's pull their finger nails out, hang them with their arms behind their backs from the ceiling, cut off their balls. After all, they are "illegal combatants", and the Geneva Articles might not apply to them. Is that what you meant? You disgust me.
Posted by Judith at November 2, 2007 08:07 PMSchumer and DiFi both on the same side supporting Mukasey. I guess they're both phony Democrats. Real ones just wouldn't vote for him. I also hear if he gets to a floor vote, he'd pass with 70 votes. Wow, 21 phony Democrats right now are Democratic senators. And y'all thought you just needed to get to 60 to have a cloture proof senate.
Posted by peter at November 2, 2007 08:52 PMWhat happens when a leadership accepts torture? It is then possible to invent an obscene term like "illegal combatant". The policy is to dehumanize the captive taken in war, to desensitize the society that is asked to accept torure as a new norm, and to create monsters in our own ranks who will personally see to the proficiency of torture.
We are leaving behind Magna Carta, our Bill of Rights, and all the precious declarations of human rights, for the kinds of satisfactions that sadists are likely to obtain. George Orwell warned us that the future of totalitarianism lies in the mass appeal of dehumanizing an enemy, the way in which the captive is exposed to inhuman treatment and separated permanently from the class of persons for whom fundamental rights are secured by law.
This should be a warning that we heed for our own sake.
Posted by Copeland at November 2, 2007 10:24 PMCopeland well said. Hitler understood this all too well. Some people enjoy the suffering of others because they lack the ability to feel empathy and see the victim as anything but human. In my world, we call them monsters.
Posted by Judith at November 3, 2007 04:29 AMOh, copeland, don't get into what Orwell was fundamentally concerned with, and his revulsion at totalitarian hatred of restraints imposed by the rule of law (sound familiar?)
I'm the one who did the Orwell quoting, GarbageBagger, not you. I don't ever see much of anything in your posts. If you think the reference somehow doesn't make sense or is open to attack in this context, why don't YOU explain why you think that, you bein' such a big Orwell expert and all, instead of (as always) simply asking the other person to "explain" themselves? Let's see your big intellect in operation for once. Stop asking your little "questions" and start displaying what you supposedly know.
I'll be waiting---you've got the entire weekend.
Posted by euzoius at November 3, 2007 06:24 AM2004 interview, reported in the AP, with Garry Trudeau who happened to have the misfortune of being a classmate of Bush's at Yale:
Trudeau said he penned his very first cartoon to illustrate an article in the Yale Daily News on Bush and allegations that his fraternity, DKE, had hazed incoming pledges by branding them with an iron.
A view of ‘torture’?
The article in the campus paper prompted The New York Times to interview Bush, who was a senior that year. Trudeau recalled that Bush told the Times “it was just a coat hanger, and ... it didn’t hurt any more than a cigarette burn.”
“It does put one in mind of what his views on torture might be today,” Trudeau said.
Posted by Judith at November 3, 2007 06:31 AMTorture Convention, Geneva Convention, historical prosecution of waterboarding as torture. We do not need a law making waterboarding illegal. It is illegal. It is a war crime.
Mukasey cannot say that waterboarding is torture without opening the door pretty wide for the next question: will we prosecute the people who ordered torture?
I am somewhat heartened that so many folks have woken up to the lawlessness, incompetence, cronyism and war profiteering of the Bush administration and its supporters, but I do wonder why it took so long for so many people to recognize what was clear from day one.
Posted by angel at November 3, 2007 08:57 AM"Are you telling me that a sufficient number of representatives -- representing their constituents, and concerned about re-election -- will not support such a law?"
NO, we're telling you that a sufficient number of RETHUGS -- concerned about winning the ReThug primary -- will not support such a law.
You right-wingers are digging your own graves. A government that tortures is a government that can do ANYTHING it wants anytime it wants to anyone
sorry pants-pissing peter, but most of the people here (EXcluding you right-wing trolls) believe in COUNTRY above party
bagless bagley: "Bush is not a Conservative." yeah, conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed. You right-wing trolls would have fit right in the Soviet Union.
Posted by gay veteran at November 3, 2007 12:39 PM