She can't, she is a member of the Club too.
Posted by Nobody at November 6, 2007 07:57 AMFor better or worse, Hillary is a good bet to get the nomination. Why are Edwards and Obama doing Rudy's work for him? Why do Democrats always have to form a circular firing squad?
Stop going after Hillary and go after the Republicans.
Posted by Mister Go at November 6, 2007 08:09 AMa couple other notes for today - DefSec Gates says that Iran is actually honoring their pledge to curtail IED export to Iraqis. I suspect Cheney won't want to hear that. And secondly, Ron Paul sets record for donations????? What's up - could it be that alot of Republicans want the Iraq war to end also? Come to think of it, a large majority of Americans do.
I agree that its time for Hillary to make a major foreign policy speech....humm...how to do that without actually committing to a policy? An finally, have you wondered as I have as to why Rudy=Bush was inserted into the GOP race and why he is so far ahead of the other losers? Somewhere, deeply hidden, may be the hand of Dick Cheney.
Another great post, Steve. Once again, you set the Theme For The Day better than any newspaper could. I totally love the idea of Hillary making a big foreign policy speech, but with so much chaos going on right now, especially in Pakistan, what would she say? What are the answers?
Nobody, I simply can't believe that notion, that I hear all the time, that there's a large Club or illuminati in control of this country. There's a great deal of difference between Hillary and W. The Clintons and the Bushes.
Has Bush even spoken publicly on Pakistan yet?
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 08:25 AMBush issued a statement yesterday, Jeff.
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 08:26 AMDoes Bush call Musharraf "Mooshy Moosh"?
Posted by snark at November 6, 2007 08:46 AMThe "Club" is not an organization, it is a world view and cultural identity that simply assumes that those families in power have a right to dominate the country and the world and a tacit agreement not to double cross the small power circle of families and companies that dominate US by really running an open and democratic government.
Hillary believes in power and her inherent power to use it because she is one of the circle of the elite.
Posted by Nobody at November 6, 2007 08:55 AMBill Clinton was a adopted son in a rural Arkansas town, Hillary married him early on. We are not talking about people who pulled themselves up by their own initiative and work and guile, such as Bill Clinton, when the "Club" is in discussion. Regardless of the fact he became president. If there is such a club, the Bush Family, the Kennedy Family are what we are talking about, not trailer park kids like Bill Clinton, but powerful and extremely rich old families. I can't see how you could put Hillary in that realm. She may think like them, but she ain't them. By an Arkansas county mile.
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 09:06 AMThanks, T2, I'll look for the statement, I'm sure it was enlightening. I was too busy celebrating Guy Fawkes Day, burning an effigy of Bush on my front lawn. The cops were called, but it was pretty burned up by the time they got there, so I told them it was Hillary Clinton. They laughed and drove off, giving me the thumbs up sign.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 09:13 AMsnark he calls him My Friend.
Posted by JohnT at November 6, 2007 09:43 AMJeff, he wants Mushy to take his clothes off and have an election.
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 09:45 AMT2, can we ask W to take HIS clothes off and allow us to have a fair election next year?
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 09:52 AMoh, and he refers to the Pakistani's as" the Paks" . god help us.
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 09:57 AM"I tell people if you're looking to stop WWIII then you talk to the Paks. And bomb them Iraners."
Posted by euzoius at November 6, 2007 10:04 AMTalking about Guy Fawkes Day, did y'all see Ron Paul's fundraiser number of nearly $4 million raised yesterday?
How about another man from Hope, Huckabee running from the everyman perspective? Not a member of any 'club'.
Then there's the polls a year out. Among Democrats, the leader in the polls a year out has only been on the ballot the next year back in 1983/84 election cycle. Good old Vice President Mondale with G. Ferraro as a gimic against Reagan. Maybe there's still hope for one of those other candidates you're so thrilled about.
Why did two Obama volunteers try to keep that TV guy off the ballot in South Carolina?
I see your new trend here, 56 people killed per day in Iraq. Must be heading in the 'wrong' direction..."deadliest year in Iraq". Lets compare it with South Africa where 52 people are killed every day, no war there, yet travel isn't curtailed in any way. Oprah comes and goes effortlessly.
Afghanistan, I hear the Marines are wanting to withdraw from Anbar and head to Afghanistan where the fight is now. They're getting bored in Anbar and wish to turn it over the Army now. And what about that bin Laden radiocast recently, he sure sounded of defeat admitting errors all over the place.
The world's a serious place today and you're still trying to lose a war we're winning. Must be the play thing of the new "party of the rich". Speaker Pelosi's constituency has 43,700 high end households verses John Boehner's 7000 households. Hoyer's district with a median income of $62,000 verses Blunt's $33,000. Look at Iowa, three wealthiest districts send Democrats to Congress and the two poorest are safe Republican districts. Maybe that's why Democrats are raising so much now. The Bush administration has been good for Democrats pocketbooks.
Posted by peter at November 6, 2007 10:14 AM"If Edwards and Obama would rather shoot at Hillary"
because there are PRIMARY elections coming up?
"Lets compare it with South Africa where 52 people are killed every day"
probably pants-pissing peter's stoopidest remark ever. How many IEDs going off on the streets of South Africa? And yeah, things are going sooooooo well that 3/4s of the American people think the country is on the WRONG track.
Posted by Gay Veteran at November 6, 2007 10:37 AMThe "paks." Oh my God.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 11:16 AMJeff, your thoughts on Ron Paul and his 4.2 mil haul? Who's his base?
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 12:00 PMT@ wrote, "not trailer park kids like Bill Clinton, but powerful and extremely rich old families. I can't see how you could put Hillary in that realm. She may think like them, but she ain't them..."
That was my thought too until Bill started traveling an playing golf with Bush Daddy. Once Bill got out of the White House, I think he missed it all and slowly was initiated. Remember, Hillary is the daughter of a Chicago lawyer and both went to "the" club school. The enticements are strong, and as T2 said, "She may think like them..." It the thinking like them that is the indicia of membership. Look at the authoritarian measures supported by her votes. Look at her donor list. Look at where Bill speaks. The Clinton's have now arrived!
I'm real sorry. I have always liked Hillary, but I can no longer trust her. If she gets the job, she will continue the spying and the torture. She will continue to aggregate more power in the executive, but instead of with bluster, she will use her charms.
Posted by Nobody at November 6, 2007 12:14 PMnobody...are you familiar with the term Blue Blood? Playing golf with a Blue Blood won't make you one of them anymore than visiting Elvis' grave will make you a great singer.
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 12:38 PMiamcoyote....the entire GOP and the Dem Congress is made up of easily fooled idiots. I think that cuts too wide a swath. Could it be possible that his base is just interested in stopping the occupation of Iraq and he's the only one out there supporting that without qualifications?
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 12:42 PMT2, but he's not the only one out there supporting full withdrawl, is he? What he is doing is saying exactly what people want to hear, whether it's true or not, whether he can deliver or not. He's not revolutionary or even surprising. Left or right, old or young, Americans value themselves over anything else, and Paul has found that all you have to do is say exactly what no one else is saying but the netroots are screaming they want to hear, and he's got himself an instant band of devoted minions. It's rather sickening, but hey, ain't that America?
Posted by iamcoyote at November 6, 2007 01:12 PMT2, I wanted to post on R Paul today but I've been too busy at work, the web is abuzz on it.
My take is there are a lot of Republicans not only unhappy about the war but a lot of them love the doctor's anti-government talk, too. My guess is most of them don't know a thing about Libertarianism, though. They love the "no income tax" stuff and "Scrap the IRS" and "The Department of Education is a joke" stuff and "Name one government institution that works" stuff, but a Libertarian would actually do away with all of that and more. Privatize EVERYthing. Can you imagine education being in private company's hands? How about local police and fire departments? You want Blackwater running your local police force? I don't either.
So they're loving the talk, are unsatisfied with the group of candidates, and are as hungry for change as we are. And they want out of Iraq now. It's shocking, but I really wouldn't be suprised if the guy finishes 2nd in NH and sets off a circus.
But then the media would start to print out and discuss the facts about Libertarianism. I think that's all it would take. There are a lot of conservatives that like to talk about the virtues of the free market and privitization and government sucks but I don't think there are a lot of them that would jump in this pool with both feet.
Of course there's the problem of Dr. Paul being president and not being able to pass a damn thing through congress. How many Libertarians are in congress? One? Two? I'd like to see him try to stand up there and try and destroy the Dept. of Education or the EPA. It's fun for a lot of these people, but they wouldn't just be electing a president, they'd be choosing a whole 'nother way of government.
Does that make sense?
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 01:21 PMJeff, yes, I think the support he's seeing is anti-war by and large. The country is sick of it and Paul is the only GOPer saying stop the war. When/if they found out about his leanings in other areas of policy, there would be concern I'm sure. Iamcoyote asks whether he's the only only one supporting full withdrawl...yes, among the GOP and well, Hillary, Edwards and Obama have't exactly been clear in their withdrawal plans. People want this war over and Paul is filling the vacuum at this point.
Posted by T2 at November 6, 2007 01:39 PMRight. I think there's Richardson and Kucinich and Paul.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 01:42 PMPeople want this war over and Paul is filling the vacuum at this point.
And people are willing to sacrifice women's choice, minorities, a social safety net, and an actual working government, just to have someone pretend he's on their side. 'Course people still watch American Idol and buy shiny worthless things, too. People will buy anything sparkly and new, won't they?
It all boils down to who you'd rather have running the government. Someone who hates it, or someone who believes it can work for the people.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 6, 2007 01:58 PMThat's the funny part, Coyote. All the conservatives love to complain about government but they're the ones who are and have been running it for the last 7-8 years. At least.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at November 6, 2007 02:16 PMRunning it into the ground, you mean. They complain that government doesn't work, and when they get power, they make sure it doesn't, just to prove themselves right.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 6, 2007 02:44 PM"I can't see how you could put Hillary in that realm. She may think like them, but she ain't them."
T2, how right you are. Perfect example: When August Busch (Beer family) wanted to join The Saint Louis Country Club, he was denied. Why you ask? His Money wasn't old enough. Even old man Kennedy was snubbed by the elite.
'The Club' is mainly those who have membership in the Skull and Bones and similiar clubs at Ivy League Universities. Their goal is world domination and control of all valuable resources. I can assure you the Clintons are not and never will be members.
Posted by Judith at November 6, 2007 04:12 PMActually Senator Clinton has an article in Foreign Affairs this month which is very good. It shows real depth and understanding of what needs to be done by the US to promote our own interests and get our reputation back in the modern world.
Too bad almost no one among the so-called high information voters on the internet will read it.
And far fewer will understand it since it doesn't contain all buzz words.
"deadliest year in Iraq", you're proving that we're winning there now. Deadliest and yet Petraeus has reduced the toll down to 56 a day average, with a 25 a day pace as of the last two months. If you extend this out into next year, South Africa as well as many other countries will be a much more dangerous place. Hell, Philadelphia will be a more dangerous place next year than Baghdad, if this trend continues.
Posted by peter at November 7, 2007 03:59 AMpants-pissing peter: 'If you extend this out into next year, South Africa as well as many other countries will be a much more dangerous place."
yeah, I'm going to Philly this Friday so I had better watch out for those IEDs
"you're proving that we're winning there now"
WE? you posting from Iraq? And IF we're "winning" then why would you want to reduce the Surge/Escalation? Of course we can't keep it up without breaking the Army.
Posted by at November 7, 2007 11:27 AM"administration insists on keeping our forces tied down in Iraq to die for Iraqi politicians"
Steve, you can't seriously believe that's the reason we're in Iraq. We there for the oil, the permanent bases, the war profiteering, and the opportunity permanent war offers the Cheney administration to use the Constitution as toilet paper.
The troops sure as shit aren't dying for the Iraqi people or the Iraqi puppet government.
Posted by ran at November 7, 2007 04:19 PM