Steve, in all fairness you should add Clinton, Obama, Dodd and Biden to that list. Their absence was as good as a yes vote. In Obama's case, why doesn't he just resign from the Senate and devote full time to the campaign? He never votes anyway.
And how did this "surprise" vote take place anyway? I thought Reid as Majority Leader (some leader), was in charge of when the vote happens? This whole Mukasey thing- its like we have been put in a time capsule and returned to 2003 and the Glory Year's of the GOP Rubberstamp Congress.
What's as remarkable as Democrats voting for Mukasey is those who didn't show up to vote. This wasn't a vote about one man, this was about whether or not the United States of America repudiates torture. AS Mukasey, would not unequivocally state tha waterboarding was torture, he should not have been confirmed.
By failing to vote Senators Biden, Dodd, Clinton and Obama showed that when they needed to stand for the rule of law, the American people couldn't count on them.
Shame on them, and this reaffirms my support for Governor Bill Richardson, who was the first candidate to speak out against Mukasey.
In response to U.S. Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey's refusal to say whether waterboarding is torture, New Mexico Governor and Democratic Presidential candidate Bill Richardson this morning issued the following statement:Posted by Ken Camp at November 9, 2007 08:04 AM"Waterboarding is torture, and anyone who is unwilling to identify it as such is not qualified to be the chief legal officer of the United States of America. If I were in the U.S. Senate, I would vote against Mukasey unless he denounces such specific forms of torture.
"Torture does not work. Mistreatment backfires and destroys our international leadership, as we saw with Abu Ghraib. Torture also endangers our own troops. The standards we adopt may well be what our own troops are subjected to.
"Anytime one makes a person think he or she is being executed, the very nature of waterboarding, it obviously is a violation of the U.S. Constitution, international law, and basic human decency.
"ABC News has described waterboarding as follows: 'The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face, and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in, and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.'
"If another nation engaged in waterboarding against American citizens, we would denounce that country and call the practice barbaric, and rightly so.
"We must stand against torture without equivocation, without compromise, and without exception. Torture is a violation of everything we stand for as Americans and as human beings."
@T2- Amen. Not voting is equivalent to a yes vote. It's an abdication of their responsibility to the American people.
Posted by Ken Camp at November 9, 2007 08:06 AMThe vote on Mukasey was a vote the Dems could have won if they showed a spine. Mukasey needed 51 votes to be confirmed. Biden, Dodd, Clinton and Obama were all missing in action.
This was not a vote on one person. It was a vote on whether the U.S. government or agents acting for our government may commit torture in the name of national security.
Persons without a moral compass should not hold political power. And no surprise here - people under torture say what they believe their interrogators want them to say. The result is we get false and misleading information when we practice torture.
The results can be devastating. We went to war with Iraq in part because of intelligence based on the torture. I suggest everyone read Tim Weiner's Legacy of Ashes. It is a fascinating history of the CIA. At page 487, he states:
Posted by Stephen Cassidy at November 9, 2007 08:13 AM
[CIA Director George] Tenet provided his own grim warnings in a secret hearing before the Senate intelligence committee on September 17: 'Iraq provided al Qaeda with various kinds of training - combat, bomb-making, and chemical, biological, radiological and nucler.' He based that statement on the confessions of a single source - Ibn al-Shakh al-Libi, a fringe player who had been beaten stuffed in a two-foot-square box for seventeen hours, and threatened with prolonged torture. The prisoner had recanted after the threat of torture receded. Tenet did not correct the record.
Inherent in the ability and qualifications to be leader is the exhibition of leadership. Leadership means principles above pragmatism. Leadership means being out in front, looking back and encouraging others to follow.
We have 4 senators who claim they have the skills and training and expertise to negotiate with the heads of state, some friendly and some not. Yet, not a single senator was able to "negotiate" with Schumer and Feinstein. Not a single one of these senators were able or willing to demand these senators change their vote. The worst offender of all is the Junior Senator from New York. She could not or would not convince her colleague to shift his position.
Where is the leadership from this Gang of Four?
Posted by David Buchanan at November 9, 2007 08:19 AMDavid Buchanan, I'd say the worst offender is the Senate Majority Leader who is not leading at all - for some reason. Then Schumer and Feinstein (who take their marching orders from the Israeli lobby), then the Absent Four, equally, for not doing what you say, i.e. leading by example and leading by explaining to the others what was at stake. Assuming they know.
Posted by T2 at November 9, 2007 08:34 AMNot voting is equivalent to a yes vote.
So we all agree, then. Obama voted "yes" on Kyl-Lieberman?
Posted by iamcoyote at November 9, 2007 08:36 AMIt was a vote on whether the U.S. government or agents acting for our government may commit torture in the name of national security.
It was a pretty goddamned stupid of the Dems to noisily and publicly make this the case, when they weren't sure they had the votes to derail the nom or the balls to back it up with a filibuster. Instead, they built up a case that this was a "torture guy," pretended that the vote was all about whether waterboarding is torture, then allowed Chuck & Di to fucking blow the whole thing. Please, for fuck's sake, can someone get these Dems a goddamn strategist?? It really is annoying to watch how hapless these guys look, when the future is on the line. Sheesh!
Posted by iamcoyote at November 9, 2007 08:55 AMDid Rudy=Bush just propose a DRAFT if he's elected? How else to get all the extra soldiers he needs to fight Russia and China? If I was a Dem contender, I'd be asking that very question starting today. Nail him. Make him explain how he's going to get all these extra soldiers to enlist, and how he's going to pay for them. I'd love to hear his plan.
Posted by T2 at November 9, 2007 09:16 AMWell, coyote, I'd say that the Dem "strategy" was to get Mukasey confirmed, as it is now quite clear that the had more than enough votes to block a vote and the Repubs counldn't possibly have gotten their necessary 60 votes to force the issue.
So Reid wanted to get Bush's "can't spot no torture" boy confirmed. How is this analysis wrong? How didn't Reid have the cards that a neophyte could play to stop this nomination? And where's the outrage from the supposed "no" votes runnin' for prezlidenter?
It's almost inconceivable that we demanded NOTHING, got NOTHING in exchange for this!! No special prosecutor!! No promise to comply with subpeonas!! Not even a Goddam straight-forward statement that he'd demand that Bush follow the fucking existing law!! It's simply incredible, an incredible cave-in.
Please, please tell me how I am wrong here. I'm begging you....
Posted by euzoius at November 9, 2007 09:26 AMyou are correct, sir!
Posted by T2 at November 9, 2007 09:44 AMeuzoius, I didn't expect any special prosecuters, really. The AG's got just a year, so there's not a whole lot's gonna happen. My complaint is that if the Dems knew they were gonna eventually roll over, why the hell did they build up the pretense that they weren't which makes them look even stupider than they already do look? I know planning in the US is just so passe, I mean, who would waste time on it, rahlly; but fookin' a, you couldn't coordinate a message? Really pathetic. How embarrassing for them.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 9, 2007 09:59 AMThe Democrats are the consolation party. They are there for us to vote for if we don't want to vote for the Republicans. Their presence is purely symbolic.
Somehow, though, I am not consoled.
Posted by ymr049c at November 9, 2007 10:30 AMAccording to several reports, this vote was another inexcusable trick by Harry; probably to prevent the 8 x 10 color glossies and the phone intercepts and videos to be leaked. Seriously, what explanation other than blackmail could explain the way Harry Reid has been Leading the Senate.
Some blogs have indicated that the Presidential wannabes were all out campaigning and, as was reported for Obama on the FISA capitulation. Reid hurriedly scheduled the vote without much advance notice. It almost seems as if he wants to keep them from voting on difficult issues. Or someone does.
It certainly looks bad for the candidates to all miss a critical vote like this. Something does NOT add up in the "Democrat" Congressional leadership. The stench of malfeasance is beginning to overwhelm the senses.
Posted by DeminNewJ at November 9, 2007 11:00 AMWhen Lieberman left the Democratic Party, he took the courage and common sense of the party with him. Now you are stuck with what you have.
Not much.
Posted by jj at November 9, 2007 11:13 AMBill Richardson is wasting no time laying waste to the Four Absentees. He is right on the money for calling them out.
And as for Reid - he's the point guard for the Washinton Nationals.
Why are Harry, Dick & Chuck Mitch's bitches?
Why did Ev, Tom, Di, Mary, Ben & Chuck vote to shred the Constitution?
Why are they willing to endorse an imperial presidency above the law?
Long Form: Because Mukasey showed he cares more about shielding senior officials from legal jeopardy than enforcing our laws, protecting the Constitution and serving the national interest rather than a narrow elite.
Short Form: Because they all eat the same cocktail weenies.
Their leadersheep will be rewarded next year. I'm sorry for y'all to work so hard and never get any satisfaction, but, it's the new Democratic way. Vote for Democrats and this is what you get.
Posted by peter at November 9, 2007 11:58 AMBill Richardson is wasting no time laying waste to the Four Absentees.
Good for him. I'd like to know why they weren't there, it seems like such an idiotic move PR-wise, at the very least.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 9, 2007 12:45 PMNothing happens in Congress by accident anymore. I'm not buying it... Reid et al knew exactly what they were doing here. Maybe not all the candidates knew ahead of time, but I betchya Reid and certainly others did. As usual euzious nails it.
Posted by emal at November 9, 2007 01:15 PMTPM is all over this Mulcasey vote timing. Seems that Reid purposely demanded the vote be done by midnight knowing the Absent Four couldn't make it back in time. Either to let them off the hook, or make them look bad, or just to hide the whole thing from the scrutiny of daylight. It's fishy, to be sure. Or just plain incompetent. From what I've seen of Reid, I'll vote for the latter.
Posted by T2 at November 9, 2007 01:21 PMfor you Hillary supporters: WHERE WAS SHE?
for you Obama supporters: WHERE WAS HE?
Stephen Cassidy" "Mukasey needed 51 votes to be confirmed."
well, no, the Senate ReThugs have been showing us that you need SIXTY votes to pass something in the Senate. Isn't it amazing how the minority ReThugs in the Senate and House have been so effective this year, while prior to the 2006 election the Dems in the Senate and House were so INeffective.
iamcoyote: "I didn't expect any special prosecuters, really."
Really? You should have. The Dems forced Nixon into naming a special prosecutor. But then we do have Vichy Dems now.
"When Lieberman left the Democratic Party, he took the courage and common sense of the party with him. Now you are stuck with what you have."
yes, that tower of courage and common sense basically left the Dems to join the authoritarian ReThugs. good fucking riddance
Today the New York Times ran an opinion piece on the Mukasey confirmation. Quite frankly, I don't think it went far enough. I am less concerned with democrats "being made to look weak on terrorism" than with them failing to protect our constitution. In addition, one would think that the concern about our country engaging in torture would transcend party lines. As Benjamin Franklin stated, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
I also must disagree with those who blame the democratic leadership for the confirmation of Mukasey. The real problem is us. If we keep writing checks to charlatans who have no principles or spine, we are ultimately to blame.
We must take a stand, and pledge to give not a cent to those who will not unequivocably oppose the use of torture by the United States. This holds true for those in office, and for the hopefuls running.
Not a cent. This is why we have formed notacent.com. You can't get any more grassroots than this. And we are putting our money where our mouths are.