Momma's hollerin' through the screen
"Would you kids like some homemade ice cream?"
That was such a simpler time and place.....
Blue Bell tastes just like the good old days
Has security improved, Steve? Really? I don't believe it. I think it's as Shirin said in an earlier thread: the surrounding states don't want anymore refugees and are sending them back to be slaughtered.
baby, I'm sure there's some profound meaning to your lame "poetry," I just can't see it.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 08:12 AMthis is just the latest in a long line of screw-ups caused by ZERO planning for any facet of the "war". Its useful to keep in mind that hundreds of thousands of arms have been lost by Petraeus in Iraq. Once the hundreds of thousands of refugees return to find their house occupied by another tribe, Petraeus will suddenly find out where all those arms went. Then, his life and the life of his men will depend on when/if Sadr decides the time has come to control Baghdad. It's all fu*ked up over there and the man at the top of the fu#k-up pile is George W. Bush.
Posted by T2 at November 30, 2007 08:31 AMWell Coyote, "baby the rain must fall". Maybe Shirin will change his mind too. First Baird now Murtha, who's a progressive now?
"Murtha finds military progress in trip to Iraq
Warns that Iraqis must do more for their own security
Thursday, November 29, 2007
By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
WASHINGTON - U.S. Rep. John Murtha today said he saw signs of military progress during a brief trip to Iraq last week, but he warned that Iraqis need to play a larger role in providing their own security and the Bush administration still must develop an exit strategy.
"I think the 'surge' is working," the Democrat said in a videoconference from his Johnstown office, describing the president's decision to commit more than 20,000 additional combat troops this year. But the Iraqis "have got to take care of themselves.""
The narative keeps changing, progressive's continue to fall in line with this admins. belief in our soldiers capabilities in accomplishing the mission they've been tasked with. I hear a big grumbling coming from some back rooms and it's getting louder.
Posted by peter at November 30, 2007 08:39 AMthis is just the latest in a long line of screw-ups caused by ZERO planning for any facet of the "war"
Exactly, T2. And frankly, I don't think the Cheney admin really wants the chaos to ebb, because then the money would stop flowing. I heard on AAR that Bush is demanding the Dems give him more money before xmas, and is threatening to cut civil service jobs and services on US bases unless he gets it.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 08:51 AMto agree the Surge is working, one must remember what the purpose of the Surge was...President Bush said it was to create a secure environment so the Iraq government could make progress. But this week both the Generals on the Ground and the WH admitted no progress had been made. At all. Therefore, the Surge, as described by Bush himself, has not worked. I don't care if Murtha or Lieberman says it has, it has not, according to Bush's words.
Posted by T2 at November 30, 2007 09:23 AMT2's being selective now. "Listen to the generals" was the call from both Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid. When the generals were called to Congress in September we heard, "you'd have to suspend disbelief" to accept what the generals came to say. It seems Rep Murtha has changed the narative, or he's now "suspending disbelief". His eyes must have been seeing something that's not there.
Today, T2 wants to parse what he's heard from the generals with what our president has said. Seems T2 has learned from Karl Rove how to parse the changing times.
Posted by peter at November 30, 2007 09:32 AMTherefore, the Surge, as described by Bush himself, has not worked.
Exactly right, T2. And you can't even say that the extra troops slowed the violence - from what I understand, Al Sadr called a cease fire in the summer, which can account for that. The "surge" was gimmick, not a strategy, pure and simple.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 09:54 AMIf pants pissing peter thinks things are going so swell over in Iraq then I think we should pay his airfare to go take a little shopping trip in downtown Baghdad.
Posted by Gay Veteran at November 30, 2007 10:55 AMWell fuck! If the 'surge' is working let's get the fuck out of there and come home! I'm sure our boys are on board with that success story!
Just think, we won't have to approve of all that spending, right?
Roundtrip
Posted by peter at November 30, 2007 11:48 AMThere's a war on war, but...
You're gonna lose
You HAVE to lose
You have to learn HOW to die
You are not my typewriter
But you could be my demon
Moving forward through flaming doors
You have to lose
You have to learn how to die
If you want to want to be alive
Okay?
Just for you Seven...
Now Murtha says that he could foresee another two years of heavy engagement before withdrawing significant US forces, which matches in rough strokes the new security partnership agreement signed by Nouri al-Maliki and Bush this week.
Posted by peter at November 30, 2007 12:13 PMSorry, baby, I meant to say I don't care what your meaning is, since idiots who use lame song lyrics instead of talking are...idiots.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 12:22 PMNo, Peter, one way or you don't go at all. This should not be a problem for you now that everything is so terrific in Baghdad.
And my offer to pay your one-way fare and provide you with a lovely home in a good Baghdad neighborhood at no charge is quite serious. I only ask that you pay the servants on time, treat them with respect, and always buy enough food so that they will not go hungry. Oh - and for this next Eid, which is coming up soon, you are expected to give them gifts - something practical is best. We usually get some nice cloth for the women, and shirts are always good for the men, although perhaps a generator or a can of kerosene would be more appreciated these days.
Posted by Shirin at November 30, 2007 12:24 PMAnd my offer to pay your one-way fare
I'll help with that, as long as none of our soldiers are used for his protection and he doesn't wear a flak jacket, just as most of the Iraqis aren't wearing them. And his family has to go along with him to enjoy the fun vacation.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 12:29 PMCalm down.
Bloody pants says "I love you"
Feel better now?
Posted by baby arm at November 30, 2007 12:45 PMPerformance artists. I'm bored.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 12:58 PM...the new security partnership agreement signed by Nouri al-Maliki and Bush this week.
Which means it isn't approved by either country.
Posted by Seven of Six at November 30, 2007 01:00 PMHere you go petey:
Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980...
Posted by Seven of Six at November 30, 2007 01:08 PMThis sudden concern about the failure - on the part of the Iraqi make-believe government no less! - is nothing but the next stage in the latest P.R. campaign for The Surge™. It's pretty brilliant, actually, in the way it pulls together so many different threads and anticipates and prepares for what is inevitably coming. Whichever one of their numerous high-priced P.R. firms came up with this one deserves a big bonus!
First, of course, it reinforces the fiction that Iraqis are returning in droves due to the wonderful security situation created by The Surge™. Why, according to the Bush regime spinmeisters, Baghdad is now as safe as it was a year ago, thanks to The Surge™. Now THAT's something to brag about!
Second, it sets up a ready-made excuse for when people start realizing that Iraqis are NOT flooding back to their homes en masse.
Third, the ready-made excuse points the finger away from the Surge™ and directly at the make-believe Iraqi government, and allows the U.S. military to pretend that everything would be just fine if only The Iraqis would step up to the plate (ignoring the fact, of course, that the make-believe Iraqi government has no real power or authority except to rubber stamp whatever the emperor tells them to rubber stamp).
Fourth, it anticipates the likelihood that the current lull in violence will not last, and preemptively defuses any suggestion that The Surge™ was, after all, not such a great success by creating a ready-made scapegoat of "the Iraqi government".
Posted by at November 30, 2007 02:22 PMRegarding the allegations that Iraqis are returning to their homes by the thousands up on thousands, because of the supposed wonderful success of The Surge™, here are some facts about the actual magnitude of and reasons behind Iraqis' return from exile. I posted this list in another thread a couple of days ago, but some who are interested might have missed it, so here it is again:
Fact: Syria and Jordan have become so overburdened with the millions of Iraqi refugees that they have stopped renewing their visas, which has forced many of them to return to Iraq.
Fact: Large numbers of Iraqi refugees in Syria and Lebanon have been forced to return to Iraq because they have run out of money and can no longer afford to stay there.
Fact: Syrian TV is 100% state-run. The Syrian government wants the refugees to leave the country. It is hardly surprising, then, that in addition to other, more forceful methods they are using, the Syrian government is broadcasting propaganda intended to encourage Iraqi refugees to return to their homes in Iraq.
Fact: The number of returns to Baghdad peaked in October, with an average of around fifty per day returning. That means approximately 1550 Iraqis returned in all of October. Compare that to the estimate of 50,000 per month leaving their homes (the UN puts the number of Iraqis who were internally displaced in October at 28,017, and that does not include the ones who left the country, or who left their homes but did not get counted by the UN).
Fact: Since the October peak of around 50 per day, the number of Iraqi refugees returning to Baghdad has greatly declined.
Fact: Many of the Iraqis who do return to Baghdad are still afraid to go back to their homes, and make other arrangements such as staying with relatives or friends in other parts of the country.
Fact: The Iraqi government is using very aggressive incentives and heavy P.R. programs to induce more people to return. They are paying for transportation, and the Displacement Ministry is offering rewards of around $800 to internally displaced families who can provide evidence they have returned to their homes. (This incentives and P.R. program is extremely unlikely to be an initiative of the make-believe Iraqi government. In fact, it has the typical putrid stench of the White House/Pentagon P.R. machine at work.)
Fact: A UN survey of Iraqis crossing the Syrian border back into Iraq found that only 14% were returning because they heard that security had improved. 46% were returning because they had run out of money and could not afford to stay any longer, 25% were returning because the Syrian government had refused to renew their visas, and 15% were not refugees.
Fact: Officials from the Ministry of displacement and Migration (imagine a country needing to have such a ministry!) admitted that they were counting all Iraqis crossing the border, not just refugees who were returning. Sattar Nowruz, a spokesman for the Ministry told Damien Cave of the New York Times “We didn’t ask them if they were displaced and neither did the Interior Ministry". Therefore, the supposed count of "returnees" included all Iraqis entering Syria, of which, according to the survey cited above, around 15% were not refugees returning to Iraq.
Fact: Some Iraqi officials admitted that the numbers of returnees were being intentionally exaggerated in order to make it look like The Surge™ is succeeding, and to make Maliki look good.
Posted by Shirin at November 30, 2007 02:38 PMThose last two are both mine - in case there was any doubt.
Posted by Shirin at November 30, 2007 02:39 PM