The bill doesn't criminalize anything. It sets up a committee and a center of excellence. No one is going to jail for anything as a result of this bill. While it is creppy, while it is orwelian, it is in no way infringing free speech.
Posted by Snitty at November 30, 2007 01:11 PMI can see it now, Speaker Pelosi wanting to provide this President and Vice President this type of authority. Come on Jeff, settle down, Tony Romo did have a good night last night. No need to get this unhinged. What an alarmist.
Sorry to hear Evil Knievel has died.
Wonder what Obama and Bloomberg were talking about?
Jeff, as I've said many times, the Bush Administration should be commended for its valiant efforts to combat terror worldwide, which threatens freedom loving people everywhere. We are safer today due to George Bush and his steadfast opposition to the Democrats, who seek to impede his work at every step.
Posted by T2 at November 30, 2007 01:37 PMI think T2 just became a pod person.
Hey guys? The hostage situation in NH you're watching right now is the operatic event that's gonna nail the Act shut.
And yes, by "operatic" I mean staged. I won't be able to say that after the bill passes next week, or maybe even tonight.
It's fascism, and it's already here.
Posted by MaskedVigilante at November 30, 2007 01:49 PMThe very name of the bill offends me. I only heard about it two days ago inside a dKos diary about something else. This bill has been sitting in the Senate for four months, having passed the House over a year ago. Yes, this sort of thing definitely bears watching.
The 'internets' are so commercialized, it's hard to imagine it being shut down (they want us to keep Buying Stuff). It's already monitored to the nth degree, but in general, the barstids cannot be trusted, and we need to keep track of all the slime trails whether they are named Blue Skies For All or Violent Radicalization Prevention Whatever.
Posted by dus7 at November 30, 2007 02:02 PMGoddamn you, MV, and I just bet that it would be Hannity who'd be the first to say Hillary staged the hostage taking. You out-fuckwadded the ultimate fuckwad, and made me lose $5.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 02:05 PMT2 - funny! But it won't work, you know. They have all your emails on a server in Cheney's basement.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 02:09 PMViolent Radicalization & Homegrown??? Terrorism Prevention Act, Oh My!
Oh Janezilla, but they are showing their desperately desperate desperation. Things are obviously not well in the engine rooms of Pax Americana. Perhaps Janezilla & Co. are preemptively moving on activity like this:
Winter Soldier 2008
On the weekend of 13-15 March, 2008 Iraq Veterans Against the War will assemble history's largest gathering of US veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as Iraqi and Afghan survivors. In Washington, DC they will testify to their first hand experiences and reveal the truth of the occupation.
http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/content/view/540/1/
Assemble? Gather? Testify? Truth? Iraq and Afghan Veterans?!?!?!!!!
Yup, Janezilla's motor's definitely got a problem. Smells like bearings.
Oh fuck Hannity. This isn't about getting Hillary elected president. Although I am sorry you lost $5. Double or nothin' the guy surrenders peacefully.
I didn't even think about this being a pro-Hillary stunt. (Although every news station in the world right now is staring at a giant HILLARY campaign ad... Hmm...)
No, this is about how dangerous the dissenters are. The first kid they talked to -- the teenager in the hoodie -- said this Leland dude used to be perfectly normal but is now into "conspiracy theories."
You wanna shut up the damn hecklers out there who question the government? Can't call 'em crazy -- we've been doing that forever and it doesn't stop 'em. Now they're disrupting Bill Maher and even Bill Clinton's speaking engagements.
You know what would really shut 'em up? Let's call them terrorists! And if THAT doesn't stop 'em, we'll round 'em up, deny them due process, and ship 'em off to Gitmo! Maybe we can even TASER them a couple times along the way!
This is the perfect example of why the Senate will, any minute now, "treasonously" vote for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act.
Lower curtain... and SCENE!
Posted by MaskedVigilante at November 30, 2007 02:21 PMIt just occurred to me; if this passes, most of Ron Paul's supporters will be taken away, won't they? Heh.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 02:37 PMAtivan, dude, Ativan.
Posted by BobbyG at November 30, 2007 02:42 PMYou know, I was just gonna say this is an attack on Ron Paul.
This is NH saying, "Don't fuckin' come up HERE with your Ron Paul shit."
Posted by MaskedVigilante at November 30, 2007 03:15 PMThanks, Jeff. It may be worrisome.
First of all it is a bill to prevent something that has not occurred, pre-emptive like the war in Iraq. This is just setting up a HUAC style slander and harassment committee.
--
Another problem with the bill is the common semantic of "force" implys violence or the threat of violence. "Prevention of radical force" does not sound too bad.
But the bill several times says "force or violence" which is either a distinction without a difference or a distinction implying that force includes actions other than violent ones. A reactionary Supreme court could use the latter.
-- Also --
Although "Force", non-lawful force, generally implies violence to persons or property or a direct and imediate threat there are other definitions among which are:
From A JOURNALIST'S BRIEF GLOSSARY OF NONVIOLENT STRUGGLE, The Albert Einstein Institution at
http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/glossary.html
Snort!
If there are any Democrats in Congress they should work on dumping the bill in the trash.
Posted by jaynicks at November 30, 2007 03:54 PMCommmittee members are appointed for life and there is no fixed or latest termination date for the committee.
Just like the Inquisition?
Posted by jaynicks at November 30, 2007 04:00 PMCoyote, I hope you took my double or nothing he surrenders peacefully bet.
Oh hey, guess what? He's a Libertarian! A Libertarian Conspiracy Theorist!
What a coincidence, since there was bound to be a Ron Paul upset in New Hampshire. And Dr. Paul's supporters tend to do things like gather en masse and hammer websites and phone lines. In fact, they were just getting ready to donate over 10 million dollars in a single day on the anniversary of the Bill of Rights.
But... wouldn't that make Ron Paul supporters... terrorists? And in turn, wouldn't that SOMEWHAT equate Libertarians with terrorists? At least when it comes to the NH primary?
This is a big day. The Totalitarian Tiptoe just took a very big step forward.
Please go ahead and laugh at me. It makes me seem more goofy and less threatening to the Illuminati.
Who was it said, "Those who dance are considered crazy by those who cannot hear the music"?
Posted by MaskedVigilante at November 30, 2007 04:13 PMIt will be useful in the inquisition. I'll plead for mercy.
Posted by T2 at November 30, 2007 04:36 PMMV, I'm glad the guy surrendered peacefully with no one getting hurt! Just another fucked up wife-beater on a bender.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2007 04:45 PM"It will be useful in the inquisition. I'll plead for mercy."
Yo! Good. What's that gonna be, a shot of novacaine before they light the T2 barbecue?
Posted by jaynicks at November 30, 2007 08:17 PMThe Hill campaign HQ invasion by a nutter has all the handprints, pawprints rather, of a Karl Rove killthebitchplan..guess NaziWeek magazine ain't amusing him enough...
Posted by Tentative Ace at November 30, 2007 09:12 PM====This Commission would be able to "hold hearings and sit and act at such times and places, take such testimony, receive such evidence, and administer such oaths as the Commission considers advisable to carry out its duties."----
So, what would stop this Commission from holding all its hearings at Gitmo, turning Gitmo into even more of a Soviet-styled Siberian gulag?
This bill is obviously the brainchild (who's definitely mentally and morally impaired) of some conservative Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats.
Since 2001, every bill pushed by the fascist Republican lawyers in the Bush administration always uses open-ended, non-definitive language., leaving a lot of weasel room.
On the other hand, any law (or international treaty) enacted in the past sixty years that specifically didn't prohibit something (like waterboarding, which wasn't specifically mentioned as torture in the Geneva Conventions, but relied on general terms applying to all forms of torture), then these fascist Republicans twist the statutes to their heart's and shriveled souls content. (Just look at the stunt these neo-Commie conservative cretins pulled with the Civil Rights Commission).
So, does this bill mention habeas corpus? Does it mention that the Commission MUST meet on U.S. soil? Will these hearings be held in secret, closed to the public and the press?
If these simple provisions (to name only a few, but essential to our being able to call ourselves a democracy) are not provided for in this bill, then this bill contains so many loopholes, a blind fascist hopped up on power madness could drive a truck through it.
Posted by The Oracle at December 1, 2007 01:30 AM"The law passed the House on October 23rd by a traitorous vote of 405-6."
"Impeachment is off the table." Now I know why. They seem to agree with the direction Bush is taking this Country.
Posted by Judith at December 1, 2007 02:55 AMYou people need to relocate to Venezuela.
Posted by at December 1, 2007 04:40 AMYou people need to relocate to Venezuela.
For the gas prices?
Posted by Seven of Six at December 1, 2007 08:16 AMHow is the "Don't Let The Geezers Freeze This Winter Act" coming along? How about the "Don't Let Kids Without Healthcare Die Act"?
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at December 1, 2007 08:19 AMRemember, it was Lincoln that threw Maryland politicians in jail for speaking out against the Unions aggression towards the Southern states.
Posted by Jay at December 2, 2007 12:09 PM"...ideologically based violence" means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual’s political, religious, or social beliefs...
Is this a boys' club? mind if i sit down? Consider the above quote -- the way i see it, on its face personages engaged in such activities would clearly include George washington, thomas jefferson, franklin, tom paine fer sher, dolly maison, anyone who passed the ammunition, and alll them "injuns" at the boston tea party. Jefferson told us if the government they set up stops working, throw the bastards out by force. This law is the kind of crap you can foist on a dumbed down populace struggling to survive another trip to the gas station filling up their semis.
nice talkin to ya. i like yer blog.
Posted by maude at December 2, 2007 02:44 PMMettle is the correct spelling.
Posted by Webster at December 3, 2007 02:14 AM