I will put to you that the first day of a new Clinton admin., a president Clinton will quietly sign a blanket pardon for those in the previous administration. She will stop any type of witch hunt from following, period. That will be that and we will go on.
Posted by peter at December 8, 2007 03:10 PMpeter- i guess that makes you a hillary supporter?
if she wins, we can revisit your prediction in early 2009...
Posted by Turkana at December 8, 2007 03:15 PMfor a short time after the last elections, i gave hope a chance. then simply from pure dissappointment, i quit reading my favorite blogs because of the lack of remedies to this night of lawlessness by our government. then i read "The end of America" by naomi wolf. i returned to the blogs, gave support to my chosen canidates, contributed to move-on.org. i am not sure yet how this will all play out, if the bushies will orchestrate some event to postpone the next elections, if somehow we as a country will take our ear out of our cellphones long enough to hear our democrasy crashing around us,
or if i will live long enough to see the hope i felt before the tragedies of the sixties turned our head from a country of equality. but we must, absolutely, not give in. and reading your post tells me i am not alone, nor are the rest who read it, so maybe, just maybe things will soon change.
I'd rather have my congressman and senators fight for me and lose, than pretend to fight and just bend over.
Posted by hells kitchen at December 8, 2007 03:23 PMWho the Fuck really cares anymore? I don't. I am planning on not voting for the first time in my life. And fuck all of you with the "you can't complain..." crap. I have had it. Let the repugs win. What will they win exactly?
We are frogs in pot of slowly boiling water. Boil the fuck away. I don't give a fuck anymore.
I'm so disgusted and tired that I just don't fucking care anymore. Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, et.al. What have you done for me lately? I vote democratic but what do we get? What do we get? We have a democratic congress but what do we get? NOTHING. NOTHING. NOTHING.
Thank you.
Wake me up when we the transition from democracy to whatever is complete. I'm out.
Wake me up when we the transition from democracy to whatever is complete. I'm out.
Wuss.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 8, 2007 03:36 PMfatmex-
i don't need to list the many historical examples. people continued to fight against even regimes much worse than ours. they usually eventually prevailed. i hope you'll change your mind- the sooner the better.
sd & hk- agree completely with both of you.
Posted by Turkana at December 8, 2007 03:38 PMWuss
Oh Save us, Coyote. Please?
One is what one eats. I am a pussy and you are a dick!
Posted by Fatmex at December 8, 2007 03:55 PMA plea for more investigations? How about a demand for impeachment instead. There are a plethora of books out there listing the transgressions of this administration, written by people like Elizabeth Holtzman, Dave Lindorf, Elizabeth de la Vega, et al, and still the Democrats, led by their less than intrepid leader Nancy Pelosi, insist that impeachment shall remain "off the table". This may be why Bush & Co. may bomb Iran because they have no fear that the Democrats will do anything to stop them. It is also the reason why this administration will continue to occupy Iraq because they realize that the Democrats do not possess the courage to defund the war. Cowardice, thy name is synonymous with the Democratic party.
Posted by Erroll at December 8, 2007 04:08 PMHeh, that's the first time I've been called a dick, I think.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 8, 2007 04:13 PMerroll-
at some point, i will post an older essay i wrote about what we lost by not pursuing impeachment. i believe every capitulation has spiraled down from that fundamental failure to hold them accountable.
Posted by Turkana at December 8, 2007 04:16 PMbed wetting pete's last comment proves he's on drugs...and not good ones..
Posted by headxray at December 8, 2007 04:17 PMHoly Trojan Horse, can't we just send an absolutely irresistible blowjob artist into the Oval Office so we can get some consequences for a change?
Posted by TIKI AL at December 8, 2007 04:38 PMTIKI, I think Jeff Gannon's free! You just have to tip him $200.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 8, 2007 05:02 PMAlthough Bush is a tad bit older than her usual cumpanions, isn't Debra Lafave between jobs right now?... (Ya-uummmm!!!)
Posted by TIKI AL at December 8, 2007 05:43 PMI personally plan to vote in all elections until the day I die.
But it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for the sell-out Democratic Party nominee for President.
Every four years some reasonable candidate(s) are available; then we are offered the chance to vote for some sell-out. The folks in charge of the Democratic Party are corporate shills, claiming to be progressive.
No, thank you.
Posted by mmeo at December 8, 2007 06:06 PMI personally plan to vote in all elections until the day I die.
But it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for the sell-out republi-con Party nominee for pResident.
Every four years some rich, white, corporate, christian male is trying to run this country into the ground; then we are offered the chance to vote for something a little better. And still the apathetic American voter always decides to not vote or vote for someone who has no chance of winning. The folks in charge of the republi-con Party know this, and are counting on it for victory.
"I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." — Radical Right strategist Paul Weyrich, at a 1980 training session for 15,000 conservative preachers in Dallas.
No, thank you.
"There will be no consequences."
That's the main point - no consequences. And, worse yet, "Even without enforcement of subpoenas, what comes out of these investigations is continually shocking and infuriating, until our synapses are so fried that we are no longer capable of being shocked or infuriated."
So, no consequences, national immunity to outrage, and a gradual acceptance of the most egregious crimes committed by those in government.
We truly are a sick nation.
Posted by KathyP at December 9, 2007 04:34 AMYes, we are a very sick and intellectually bankrupt nation, and this is a common condition for a country seduced by the desire for global "domination"---if we could somehow remove the insane (historically un-American) desire for global military reach, some mental health could possibly begin to be restored, and with it some sense of our democracy. But both parties (and most citizens) are addicted to the idea of militarism and "superpower".
Hence, our doom. Over time, we will succumb to the inevitable economic and political destruction inherent in a futile policy of military overstretch, which gives authoritarian white male Repubs their current "Kill the goddamn muslims!" erections. But as a people we can no longer see that our actions are headed for certain disaster---we just have to wait to go off the cliff.
At some point, the idiot Repub followers will say "what's your plan?" as the car plummets to earth. It will be too late to avert huge amounts of damage, but then those that still care will start moving forward again. Many who will have been destroyed will no longer care about the country's future any longer.
I think we should find out everything concerning Bushco's lawbreaking, lies, violations and malfeasance, even though it's clear that our failed elites will make sure there are no consequences for it whatever. The future may have better people, be a better nation and they may have a use for the knowledge of Bushco's perversions and lies. Even the small minority of today's intelligentsia who follow this stuff may derive some slight "satifaction" from getting even a whiff of the truth of Bushco's monstrous evil. What else are we getting? We might at least have the truth.
The truth has its own value. And we are beyond consequences at this point, as the mental sickness inherent in peter's taunting intitial post above demonstrates---as an authority-worshipping Team Conservative peasant lickspittle, he would derive satisfaction from seeing lawbreakers pardoned and escape with their crimes. That's what motivates people like him. The hideous face of "conservatism".
Posted by euzoius at December 9, 2007 07:14 AMI missed a vote round for the first time in decades in November. I didn't plan it, I usually vote by mail (like about half the voters here in WA State), I had the ballot out, I just never got it out.
I am amazed and disappointed at our current political environment and culture. Impeachment and criminal prosecution is the only thing that makes any sense. Anything less lowers the bar on essential accountability of our representative democracy. I didn't understand the failure to begin impeachment proceedings against Alberto. That was a no-brainer and would have re-established the role of Congress in keeping our country on track. Didn't happen.
Destruction of the interrogation tapes? Special prosecutor should be appointed immediately. Anyone who knew of the waterboarding and did not object or raise question about the law, Geneva Conventions, torture law, etc should be considered a target for conspiracy. The guy who ordered the destruction of the tapes should be indicted post haste for obstruction of justice and any other charge that fits the facts as they come out.
I don't think it's going to happen. The country has completely lost its moral (and legal) compass.
Posted by angel at December 9, 2007 07:55 AMpants pissing peter, if Bush et al have not committed crimes then why would Hillary pardon them?
Bush is claiming monarchial powers and the Democrats DO NOTHING
"Cowardice, thy name is synonymous with the Democratic party."
sorry, but at some point "cowardice" becomes "complicity"
Posted by gay veteran at December 9, 2007 12:13 PM