When we are faced with no meaningful choice between self-serving evil and self-serving jackassery the system has failed us.
Posted by Jayhawk at December 9, 2007 07:13 AMFailure starkly began at Bush vs Gore. The country was lost right then, it will always be true.
Posted by paradox at December 9, 2007 07:42 AMThe country was lost when "they" turned the criminal fucker Reagan into a god.
Posted by Sharon at December 9, 2007 07:46 AMThere's no such thing as an honest politician these days.
Oh how I would love just once for those who effed up and made grave errors of judgement to just one day say....Yep boy I effed up big time and I was wrong and here's what I intend to do about it to try to correct my lapses in judgement.
But for some reason people admitting their screw ups and mistakes is viewed by the Villagers as a sign of weakness and these people are not to be trusted/and should be shunned from the great halls of the Village. Instead admitting errors and mistakes really is a of a sign of humility and greatness.... because people learn from their mistakes..Wouldn't that be a HUGE welcome change for once. We are a forgiving party....if only those people who need forgiving would come clean and ask for it and then move on forcefully and diligently to correct their previous actions/errors (or lack of action). How I long for some honesty and humility these days.
To err is human....forgive divine.
Posted by emal at December 9, 2007 08:08 AMbush vs gore..the day our democracy died..and i will never ever forget or forgive it..til the day i die..these 8 yrs have been a monstrosity and will forever live in infamy..history will show that
Posted by dennis at December 9, 2007 09:02 AM
I agree with everything you said Paradox...
For those who state that Democracy died at Bush vs. Gore I disagree.
It may seem to most that the Bush vs. Gore decision was the last nail in the coffin. I don’t see it that way, that date was the day the veil began to be lifted from most Americans eyes. Those is power showed their hand and true colors...something that was always kept under wraps.
This country has been un-threading (?) for quite a long time. The murdering of JFK was the day that we were told Santa Claus is not real and it all went downhill from then.
I don’t believe that we can put the mad Jennie back in the bottle (yes, I know never lose hope). Hope is a commodity that is seriously lacking nowadays and whatever there is, it's not serving us any.
The thing that really astounds me is the level of apathy of the American public. For all of our bravado and talk of liberty, freedom, the American Way, blah, blah, we have been rolled over, trampled, kicked in the teeth and still we cower.
Perhaps we should take the intensity and aggressiveness that we exhibit while playing or watching football and channel it into politics where the real battle is.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us.
"Mary and Jesus save us"???
Pardon me for not being part of the Godbot echo chamber, but what have they done for us in the past 2,000 years of hell on earth?
Or are they just "slow starters"?
Posted by TIKI AL at December 9, 2007 10:25 AM410 U.S. 113 (1973) Does not get any worse that that.
Posted by jj at December 9, 2007 10:59 AMthere's at least one thing jarjar and the islamomarxomooreohitlercrackerjackofascists have in common: they both want to control women's bodies
Posted by gay veteran at December 9, 2007 11:47 AMGood posting, paradox. Thanks!
Paradox wants to have Pelosi and Reid held responsible for results, not posturing, mutterings about expediency and unintended results. Yay! Were it so, about fucking time!
On the more abstract side there is a curious article in the NYTimes today about intentions and consequences by, of all things, a philosopher, Kwame Appiah. Appiah talks about intentions and the Prisoner's Dilemma which is related to voting on bills in congress. Expediencies and political achievability have been used by politicos to subvert their campaign positions for a long time.
So we got a bill that says we want to spend, what, nearly 200 billion on mayhem, murder and polluting and 11 billion on our own people who are malnourished, have inadequate education or need health care. The latter mostly only if they are veterans -- victims of previous exercises in mayhem, murder and polluting.
It is "expedient" to consider the 200 billion spent already as that is forced by the fact that the troops are already there, and the 11 billion is the only "politically achievable" amount, we are being told. Ergo otherwise moral politicians will support it.
What should a representative or senator do faced a vile bill, this complex version of a prisoner's dilemma? I'll pick on Bernie Sanders. I don't know him, have no relatives or friends working for him, and I think he may be sane enough to be disgusted by his choices.
He should not play the game. imho.
On the day of a vote for a a done deal measure like this, one with abhorrent consequences likely, I'd like to see him picketing outside with a sign that reads, hopefully a better sound bite but something like:
I've lived in Vermont and I think this would increase his popularity with constituents, increase his margin in the next election.
I've lived in Berkeley, Tribecca, SoHo, NoHo, The Village, Alphabet City, Portland, Seattle and Westchester. All reps from those areas, except probably Westchester, would likely increase their margins.
I'd like to see thirty or more representatives picketing Congress with signs saying "We don't vote on crap bills"
It happens in advanced countries. Why is the US so backwards and parochial? (rhet.)
Posted by jaynicks at December 9, 2007 11:48 AMas a senior Bush aide told Ron Suskind in the NYT piece from which these quotes are taken, that:
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
But really, if the Republic was all you thought it was, do you really think BUSH could have done what he did?
there's at least one thing jarjar and the islamomarxomooreohitlercrackerjackofascists have in common: they both want to control women's bodies
Posted by gay veteran at December 9, 2007 11:47 AM
Death is death, rookie. You can't have it both ways
Posted by jj at December 9, 2007 02:23 PM"This country has been un-threading (?) for quite a long time. The murdering of JFK was the day that we were told Santa Claus is not real and it all went downhill from then."
Parallax, that was the moment for me, and everyone that I knew. That was the moment in history that screamed you can't trust anyone in power, and never believe that those in power ever tell the truth. A valuable lesson learned at a very young age for me.
Posted by Judith at December 9, 2007 03:07 PMDeath is death? Bush is death.
Posted by Sharon at December 9, 2007 04:35 PMSince we are interested in the truth, let's consider this sad possibility: the Democrats quietly assented to Bushco's policies all along. Everything this Democratic Congress does seems to fit a pattern, of protesting loudly and assenting ultimately. We'll really only know the truth in 50 years. God help us.
Posted by Karl at December 9, 2007 05:15 PMFor dennis, "eight years", so your problems actually started in 1999. OK.
"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk." Wastington Post
"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
Pelosi declined to comment directly on her reaction to the classified briefings. But a congressional source familiar with Pelosi's position on the matter said the California lawmaker did recall discussions about enhanced interrogation. The source said Pelosi recalls that techniques described by the CIA were still in the planning stage -- they had been designed and cleared with agency lawyers but not yet put in practice -- and acknowledged that Pelosi did not raise objections at the time.
Mr. 28% isn't the worst ever and he easily beats a Congress rated at half his rating. How did they get there? Trying to please you fine folks on the left side of the Democratic Party. With some compromise, several, no many Republicans could have been pealed away. Your leadersheep just couldn't do that because of you fine people. Y'all want it all, and want it yesterday, and wouldn't appreciate an incremental approach. To end our involvement in Vietnam it took some 34 pieces of legislation. (I mentioned this last year when y'all were so effervescent with joy over your victory in November.) Those Democrats knew how to word legislation, they knew how to compromise. Today's Democrats aren't a shadow of those, and boy, am I glad.
Looking to next year, don't be surprised when y'all face defeat again. Go ask Cornel West, and Peter Hart, the Democratic half of the bipartisan team that conducts surveys, told me in an interview last week that an overwhelming majority of voters of both parties not only want change but also regard “reducing the partisan fighting in government” as high on their agenda. To his surprise, Mr. Hart found that there’s even a majority (59 percent) seeking a president who would help America in “regaining respect around the world.”
Who does this? Gov. Huckabee comes to mind as well as Senator Obama. Anyone else, everyone else would bring us to business as usual. The warfare that y'all embrace. Look at a recent WSJournal-NBC poll between an unnamed Democrat and Republican in the presidential race — 50 to 35 percent — shrank to a 1 percent lead when Mrs. Clinton was pitted against Mr. Giuliani. This is way too close to call folks, you want to invest $200-$700M in that race. I sure wouldn't.
As for "hope", Paradox, lets look again for the "Man from Hope". He can lead us forward. He can get the respect that most Americans seem to want today and he can compromise to move America forward.
Posted by peter at December 9, 2007 05:30 PM"The truth, founded upon principles of the Party, is what will eventually make us strong and successful, not some meaningless slogans and denial of the truth."
The "Party." Capitalized?
Why paradox, you show your true colors more and more with each passing post. (I trust you have your Little Red Book, photographs of Kim-Il-Song and Kim-Il-Jong, issues of Pravda, and a copy Mein Kampf handy.)
Posted by Bagley at December 9, 2007 06:22 PMHey nitwit, you usually capitalize when referring to a specific party, i.e., Republican Party.
Posted by Judith at December 9, 2007 07:11 PMParadox ought to do what Soto did and hang it up for a while. You people are ruining this blog.
Posted by Toby Petzold at December 9, 2007 09:52 PMOMG
DUDE!!!!!
I never noticed you were like a communist cus your all lower case and stuff.
Posted by mparker at December 9, 2007 10:52 PMpeter, Huckabee doesn't stand a chance, the man doesn't believe in evolution. I can see him trying to start the teachings of 'intelligent design' in schools.
bagless, anything is better than the deregulated capitalism you believe in! Especially socialism.
Paradox ought to do what Soto did and hang it up for a while. You people are ruining this blog.
Coming in for a few hits while the blogfather is out, right Toby? Why don't you fuck off and come back when Steve is back!
Posted by Seven of Six at December 10, 2007 01:35 AMI believe you said that about Bush too, Seven? See how that ended.
Posted by peter at December 10, 2007 09:37 AMI believe you said that about Bush too, Seven? See how that ended.
No, I did not. I was not even posting on blogs during the 2004 election.
little right-wing trolls need to be on their knees praying (a change from what they usually do on their knees) that a recession doesn't hit next year, because if one hits then the ReThugs may go the way of the Whigs
Posted by Gay Veteran at December 10, 2007 10:35 AMPardon me Seven, you would have said that had you been available to do so. Sorry, if I was placing words in your mouth for once.
Oh, your gayness, only Democratic power worshipers get down on their knees about politics. The GOP made it by the Great Depression of 1929, whats a little recession.
Posted by peter at December 10, 2007 02:19 PMROFLOL, the stench of fear is clinging to right-wing trolls like pants pissing peter. Your world is going down the toilet.
Posted by gay veteran at December 10, 2007 05:12 PM