Turkana:
I know from your previous posts that you support this woman. That is your right. But to characterize those who have researched her history going back to Little Rock and discovered a habit and practice of lying, deception and misusing power as irrational Hillary haters is unfair and wrong-headed.
The American people deserve better than the status quo and that is just what Hillary Clinton has to offer.
Posted by brisa at January 7, 2008 03:27 PMHeck...just skip the whole campaign! Step aside for a few months.
Posted by Democrats Against Hillary at January 7, 2008 03:29 PMbrisa,
actually, if you've been reading my posts you know that i was hoping for gore, then supported dodd. with reluctance, i'm now for edwards. i prefer hillary to obama, kucinich, and gravel, but that's it. i defend her because i have researched her history, and i know how she's been targeted.
i highly recommend this book.
Posted by Turkana at January 7, 2008 03:31 PMYes, I agree with turkana, once you read "the hunting of the president" everything you think you "know" about the Clintons is shown to be utter right wing fiction. As turkana says the hatred is neither warranted nor rational and coming out swinging is the only way to win--and the only way for the voters to truly get a look at hillary and her actual policies. Otherwise we are just going to continue to see vapid story after vapid story about whether she is or is not a calculating bitch. I hope she is a calculating bitch and can figure out how to give voice to that side of her personality--if she has it--because I want a strong, angry, active, progressive in the white house and I'd like to see her claim her own.
aimai
Posted by aimai at January 7, 2008 03:35 PMd a h,
it says everything that you define yourself by what you're against. you're clearly a case-study in what i'm talking about. just wondering about the d part.
Posted by Turkana at January 7, 2008 03:36 PMYes Yes...I agree. Isn't that what Joe Scarborough also said on Hardball? I thought he meant it sincerely. Also take a look at what Pat Buchanan said on Hardball too....define Obama.
Democrats are such wimps. This has been disgraceful for the Democratic party and especially the Obamafiles...hateful, sexist, mean....They deserve what get...too bad they will take us with them.
By the way, we won't get McCain. We will get mean Romney.
Posted by lily15 at January 7, 2008 03:37 PMlily,
i think romney's probably done, after tomorrow.
Posted by Turkana at January 7, 2008 03:41 PMSo if anyone is against Hillary, they are sexist. I guess that means those against Obama are racist, right?
Come on, you guys can do better than that. Besides the fact that poor Hillary is under attack from mean old men who don't want a female president, why not give me a reason to vote for her. Most of what I hear from Hillary supporters is whining about being treated unfairly, even though she was preordained by the press, Republicans, and most democrats as the frontrunner. Obama was called a muslim and a sellout, but he didn't whine about, he just kept putting out his message. Hillary's message is lost in all the whining. So tell me how I'm wrong in thinking she's in AIPAC's back pocket and that she's sold out to the a bunch of industries in order to set herself up to be president. Show me how I'm wrong and I might change my mind (it wouldn't be the first time), but whining about sexism cheapens your argument and kinda pisses off people like me who couldn't care less that Hillary is female -- in fact, I consider it a positive because we are overdue for a female president.
Posted by turtleguy at January 7, 2008 03:59 PMTurk:
I could vote for Edwards...I could vote for Obama...I would prefer Ron Paul despite his free market above all rhetoric...but, as an independent who has voted for far more losers than winners, I could never vote for Hillary.
I'm not sure what that says about her chances, but her latest bid to use the politics of fear to save her campaign should give all of her supporters pause.
Posted by brisa at January 7, 2008 04:00 PMGood advice.
I also think she should unveil something big on energy or agriculture.
I would be tremendously excited to see a candidate pledge some major changes to agriculture. This is a key area, tied up with energy use, security, pollution, health and diet, yet hardly anyone talks about agriculture seriously.
On the downside, I don't like Obama's inclusion of biofuels.
My advice to HRC: admit you are the one with false hopes.
Posted by Callimaco at January 7, 2008 04:02 PMbrisa,
i agree about her fearmongering, today. i find it hard to believe that came from her. gets back to my point about firing penn and her handlers. she can make the point about her experience without resorting to such inanities.
Posted by Turkana at January 7, 2008 04:03 PMmark,
obama also goes for liquefied coal, which is laughable.
Posted by Turkana at January 7, 2008 04:14 PMThe American boob is not going to start becoming informed on energy policy, ever. It's incredible they know that there are troops in Iraq and have come to oppose this (sort of).
Ya know, I just have this crazy idea that Obama is gonna to pretty well in two enormous, diverse urban mega-states like FL and CA. But I'm not the Californian, either.
Posted by euzoius at January 7, 2008 04:36 PM
Come on Hillary!!
Hang in there until the very END !!!
Posted by jj at January 7, 2008 04:36 PMT:
But her claim that she has the experience and is "ready to lead" is itself a fabrication of those same DLC handlers. How much experience does she have...really?
True, she is an intelligent lawyer and was the first lady for two terms. She relocated to New York to run for the Senate, positioning herself for a Presidential run, and won by swearing undying support to the Likudnic agenda. She backed the Iraq War, an unconstitutional war of aggression in violation of the UN Charter. It was clear from day one that the WMD claim was trumped up and was strongly refuted by Hans Blix, Scott Ritter and others. If I and millions of others could see through the war propaganda, certainly Hillary could as well.
There is an agenda being advanced with regard to the MI and it is not being publicly discussed. Hillary has done all in her power to advance that agenda. I just don't trust her, or any other incumbant who continues to support this bogus "War on Terror".
The problem with allowing mass murder events to dictate foreign policy and military action is that it lends itself to manipulation by false flag terror attacks. I suspect that that has been the case in the MI, as well as in the US.
I have come to accept that the movie "The Matix" as an accurate metaphore for the world in which we live. The corporate media spins the tale, which is accepted as reality by the masses, but the truth is far more sinister and hidden from view.
See Sibel Edmond's piece in the Saturday edition of the Times of London for a peak behind the curtain.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3137695.ece
Key the funeral dirge already??? Can't even make it to Feb. 5, wow, such inevitability. What a scene, getting teared up and all. Makes her seem almost human. "I____care about this country." It's time to prepare the coffin, she's going to need it soon. Thank Steve for giving her the kiss of death.
Posted by peter at January 7, 2008 05:12 PMConsider this image a 1,000 word diary. Nice work, liberals.
Posted by sarahfdavis at January 7, 2008 05:33 PMThere's no room for retooling. Hillary hasn't been treated fairly, but no one ever is. She's got the wrong political identity for these times. People want to throw off the 90s and the Clinton dynasty. The incidents today, her debate behavior, they all are put into the same frame, the insider who feels entitled to the throne and the restoration of "Clinton Camelot." The tears were about anger at the Obama upstart. Ask any woman who is really angry and frustrated and they will tell you they cry. Her words betrayed her thoughts. That she was the best one and she was the competent one and there was no one else but her. I like Hillary and have supported her through many years of undeserved persecution and betrayal. But she's not the one to lead the country as president now. And the primary results will just confirm that.
Posted by Bill R. at January 7, 2008 06:19 PMY'all should have promoted Edwards. He's easily and clearly the most electable, and a known quantity.
Oops.
Good luck, Barack. Keep Edwards on speed dial.
Posted by RAM at January 7, 2008 06:21 PMMaybe Karl Rove is having a laugh?a
Posted by jackalope at January 7, 2008 07:07 PMI'm a woman, and a successful lawyer, and like many women I would find it hard to vote for Hillary. 35 years of experience? Most of it as a lawyer - does that mean I can boast of over 20 years of experience? Or is she counting only the fact that her husband was in politics and her brief time as a senator? I never could stand women who wear their husband's rank, or sleep their way to the top - how much different is that from Hillary's "experience" claim? I would love to see a woman president. But no Hillary.
Posted by evey at January 7, 2008 07:17 PMum. evey- you are aware of her work for the senate, and for the children's defense fund, right?
Posted by Turkana at January 7, 2008 09:00 PMYou nailed it. Go for Florida, Hillary. Obama can't counter that. If he campaigns in Florida, he dangerously raises the stakes there. If he doesn't campaign, he's handed Hillary the state and some momentum going into Super Tuesday.
And, by the way, I expect New Hampshire to be a lot closer than people think. Have you noticed that Hillary has had an uptick in today's tracking polls?
Posted by Mark at January 7, 2008 09:03 PMHasn't the Party placed a pox on Florida delegates? And I thought Democratic presidential candidates swore off Florida. Florida isn't suppose to happen, not count. Isn't that what the DNC said? Michigan too? What were all those sanctions for?
Is it screw the rules time now?
Posted by peter at January 7, 2008 09:16 PMI lived in Arkansas from 90 to 95. Whenever we would encounter some really good program, we would ask how this came to be. The answer was always: Miz Clinton pushed this through.
My partner died of AIDS. Thanks to the health care system Hillary put in place he had excellent care. Even our friends in ACTUP regarded Hillary's work for gay people as superb.
She accomplished a great deal in Arkansas. Shame that it is not better known.
Posted by DaleA at January 7, 2008 09:19 PMWell, she'll take Michigan, since Obama's not on the ballot. But the other 49 and the "territories," I'd be surprised at this rate if she actually took a state. Don't shed too many tears. She never stood a chance. Most of the base are sick of her and her husband, including me. She never stood a chance against whatever Republican they put up either. The most ironic thing is all along I kept hearing how no one else among the Dems was electable. I kept thinking, that's crazy. She's the only one practically not electable. The proof is in the primaries now, too. If she can't even do it in her own party, she'd never win in the general election. The rest of the United States is not New York or D.C. The disdain people feel for her is unfair, but they feel it nonetheless. Oh, well. Life isn't fair and no one has the right to be president, no matter what Dubya thought. It's time for LeftCoaster to start showing some love for Obama after NH, I think. There's plenty of time after the front-loaded primaries to change the tune, but for the sake of taking on the Republicans and making sure we all get on that same page, you may as well get onboard Obama's election now.
Posted by Brian Bell at January 7, 2008 10:09 PMBrian,
you're a shit.
You come in here and pump up Obama with lies and distortion, and then dump on Hillary too.
Obama is incredibly weak for the general election---he's gotten a free ride so far.
Has anyone ever seen Mark Penn and Donna Brazile together?
After hearing Hillary throw out the GOP fear Al Caeda BS card I have to believe Mark Penn is really Donna Brazile in reverse drag and pancake makeup.
She is getting some really bad advice.
Posted by TIKI AL at January 7, 2008 11:19 PMShe is getting some really bad advice.
Ahmen, brothers and sisters! Turkana's advice is spot on. Not only Hillary, whom I would find personally, very acceptable, but all Democrats, especially those Leading in Congress HAVE TO dump the vile infrastructure of utterly self-enriching, unimaginative and, far too incestuous within the Beltway, Family of "Playahs" that is the totality of their tiny world. I fear these fools even believe that equally incestuous, Think Tank denizens are sometimes correct.
These clowns are actually very good at the minutia of campaigning and "voter focus" nonsense, but perhaps because of that, they completely miss or misread the the will of the American electorate. It's their "advice" that's hobbled the Democrat party and driven half of the voting public to declare, a POX on both the Houses.
I have often named the typical "consultant" group, Grima, Penn/Shrum/Brazille & Wormtongue because they do indeed whisper poisonous advice of fear and surrender and "bi-partisanship" into the withering ears of Democrats as soon as they make it to Washington. Whether they are actually Republican or not, they demonstrably support the Corporatist Saurumons in their selfish, Gilded Age goals.
The only problem is, where is our Gandolf to sweep them away? All of the current crop have some cretinous "advisors" attached like leeches on their veins. What can WE do to expose them and peel them off?
Posted by DeminNewJ at January 8, 2008 03:29 AMthe msm is beyond control..i am beginning to think we are broken beyond fixing...
Posted by dennis at January 8, 2008 03:56 AMHey, anonymous, I may be a shit, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong about Hillary's chances. And, I'm no troll, either. I'm a Dem. I've been around for years, and these intramural squabbles are starting to get downright nasty. Maybe that's what the public wants with Obama, a change from this kind of nastiness.
Posted by Brian Bell at January 8, 2008 11:48 AM