so much for the obama surge..what a crock of shit..he is a red stater..he should do the right thing for the party and withdraw

Obama wins white men, African-Americans and youth. Clinton wins white women and Latinos. So who can win in November? I think if Clinton is the nominee, a lot of the youth vote will stay home. I don't think they're really democrats as much as they're just enjoying the wave of enthusiasm and if it's not their guy, I don't think they'll vote. I think African-Americans would go for Clinton, white men--some Clinton, some McCain.

If it's Obama, Latinos may split between Obama and McCain. White women would go for Obama, who is an easy second choice for all the white women I know who support Clinton. I'm starting to wonder if Obama looks more electable. But then I think of national security and the fear vote, and I think that goes to McCain over Obama, but not to McCain over Clinton. But who knows.

Not so fast DICK BREATH Clinton water carrier

You are mistaking momentum for spin. Obama has the mo and Hillary has the spin. Obama had a hellofva night last night. Given that he was down by 20 point in CA 1.5 weeks ago; it was a damn good showing. He kept pace with Hillary in the delegate count.
So you should rethink who should be pulling out of the race. Hillary was the INEVITABLE as recent as IOWA (remember that?) You do remember Iowa don’t you? Dennis?

Spin this anyway you want, but guess what Obama will get a chance to campaign in each of the upcoming states and guess what happens when that happens. He mobilizes the hell out of young people. LOOK OUT HILL Obama is on the move baby! Damn that feels GOOD!
It feels good to have a chance to throw out the bums and wash away the old and start with the new. Obama Obama Obama

Obama won 13 of 22 states.

the vitriol between fans of both candidates is saddening here.

we ARE dems, aren't we?

both hrc and bho are great candidates. better than any repub out there. i will vote for either in the general, happily. i am pro-bho because im ready for something new. tired of the establishment. tired of bush, clinton, bush, and possibly clinton again. yuck...

face it, hrc, though a viable choice, will be polarizing. she symbolizes the establishment. she gives the repubs someone to rally against. like it or not, trivial reasoning or not, it is real, very very real.

but, the dems will work together to get to the white house, this is may not be a kumbaiya moment here, but wow, you guy denigrate the candidates with more vehemence and name calling than any troll on this blog.

btw...
what is the true delegate count? some say hrc by 60 other reports have her up be 90. where can i get a true count???

anthony

anthony

CNNPolitics.com
Clinton 825
Obama 732

CG:

I agree with you. Laying aside the spin. Watching the returns last night and looking at the NUMBER of voters; I am sure that Obama can win. I was really hopeful before but now I know that he can win. I guess it really hit me is when he won MISSOURI. I almost fell out of my chair.

angryman..stop the fucking bullshit..you clown..he had his shot..it didn't happen..he won the red states..the democratic base is behind hillary..solidly...it's time to stop this nonsense..it didn't happen for obama..and if he wants the vp..he better think about going ahead

I saw a snippet on NBC (I think) this morning with Pat Buchanan and some guy I didn't know.

Guy I didn't know: McCain is running for a third Bush term--same Iraq policy, same tax policy.

Buchanan: if McCain is prez, he'll make Cheney look like Ghandi.

Loved it--campaign ads for the dems.

Mary, you're right, I'm watching my mutual funds disappear. We're heading for a big fall, and no one's watching.

dennis, eriposte has asked that the angry troll be ignored, he's trying to turn this into dKos, and he's pretty close to succeeding. Do we want that?

iamcoyote

understood..

It's going to be a long haul, and maybe it's good for dems, I don't know. At least both our candidates, talking about the issues in a way the public hasn't heard for 7 years, will be spotlighted. Obviously, the vitriol on the blogs hasn't made a lick of difference, and only served to make us all on edge. There's some down-ticket races that could probably use our help; we have to make sure that whatever dem makes it, they'll have a congress they can work with to the things done that we need to get done. A dem prez isn't going to fix everything overnight - if there're any pieces to pick up once Bush is kicked outta town.

The youth vote did not turn up in California. If you look at the total # of votes last night, Hillary far surpassed Obama. Her win in California might have something to do with her debate skills - he's very weak in that area. And I heard somewhere that she didn't put $$ in the caucus states - but that might be a rumor.

Dennis:
Again, this is a case of irrational exuberance. We are talking fact vs. fiction. I know you want to quickly skip the nominating process; then go straight to the general election; skip that; and put Hill and Bill in the Whitehouse. The fact of the matter is that Obama has a real shot at being the Democratic nominee. When Obama start to rattle off the next few wins we will see what happens.
In December the Clintons had predicted that she would have this wrapped up by Super Tuesday when she was considered "inevitable." Even though you have on blinders; the rest of the blogosphere knows. Obama won across America 13 of 22 states.

Coyote said:
...he's trying to turn this into dKos, and he's pretty close to succeeding. Do we want that?

It would beat the constant propoganda for HRC.

Anyway, Dennis, way to oversimplify:
...he had his shot..it didn't happen...

LOL! Here's some real numbers from last night, Dennis, read them and weep. Looks to me like Obama at the moment won within 20 delegates of Hillary last night, won more states, and the rest of Feb's schedule heavily favors Obama.

Clinton was the one who needed to bury Obama last night -- which I thought would happen, but it didn't. Obama just had to stay alive and stay competitive in the delegate count. A clear win for Hillary meant she had the nomination. A split decision, which is was happened, means Obama is rising. [sarcasm]Yeah, Obama had his shot, now he's over.[/sarcasm] LOL! Let's see how HRC does in Louisiana. LOL! I love how Ohio is being painted as a bulwark for HRC. ROTFLMAO! Wait 'til Obama actually campaigns there. I don't think she stands a chance in Ohio.

Really, I've been dejected for 2 weeks thinking Obama's done, but last night was a revelation. It's like, wow, he's still there!

Oh, and check Drudge's lead:
"ELECTION SHOCK: OBAMA CLAIMS DELEGATE LEAD"

LOL! Yeah, great night for Hillary there, Dennis.

brian bell

spin it anyway you want..it's the beginning of the end for baracky..it's ovah!! as ted kennedy would say

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/177248.php

Emotions Runnin' Kinda High
02.06.08 -- 1:36AM By Josh Marshall
TPM Reader SM ...
You guys have lost your friggin minds since Josh decided on Olberman that Obama's Iraq comment was something more than it was. There's been nothing but crap Zogby polls and spin keeping this guy a float. Look at the exit and entrance polls! The guy hasn't managed to break out of his key demographics AT ALL. Whoa he got more of the White vote in CA which he lost handily. He seems to be able to win every caucus and lose every election. Too bad we don't caucus to elect a president.
He's dead. His campaign is fundamentally about the belief that there are no race issues in America. And reality is biting him on the ass in every race. He loses the brown vote in every state 2:1 while pulling in the black vote 4:1 and he manages to sway wealthy white people and young white people. That's it. The base of the dem party is union workers, working class people and grandma. He has no traction at all with these groups. It's written large in every race. The guy just doesn't have what it takes to build a majority, and he's got a slick net press operation that is fundamentally gaming Reddit and the blogsphere.
It's obivous that the dem base loves Clinton ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS AGRESSIVE!
It's obvious that the dem base doesn't give a shit about the Iraq vote!
It's obvious that the Obama base relies heavily on right wing help, and launders stuff through them and their proxies. Case in point your own guy Trapper via Drudge.
It's obvious that the brown vote in this country matters more economically than the black vote since the brown people work closer to the white power structure and get more representation for their money even via delegates as a result. And it's obvious that Obama has killed himself by denying the realities of race in America instead of addressing them.
Please stop buying into the bullshit of the Obama internet press operation. The party can't afford to bleed for 3 more months to appease Barack and Michelle's ego, when McCain consolidates everything under himself tomorrow. Ok sure we go to VA and MD or whatever if the Republicans pussyfoot, but we aren't going to learn anything new just blow a lot of scratch to see another iteration of the same demographic story.
The real story is not in the pre-election bullshit polls where people like Zogby just make shit up, it's in the repeated and expanding story of the exit and entrance polls. LOOK AT THEM. There is NO OBAMA "surge", it's the same people in the same groups with different numbers in each state.
Encourage the Obama people to take Hillary's VP offer so that we call move on already. We need to win in November, and raising more ire within the party is a sure way to fuck that up.
PS We love teddy in MA but we know he is full of shit, which is why Obama lost here. That everyone else bought into the spectacle is enough to show that you were all more interested in seeing what you wanted to see rather than what was. Open your eyes look at the exit and entrance pols. BTW the same white demographic that went for Obama in MA is the one that went for him in CA, in CA there are just more of them.

Coyote:
Have you ever heard of the concept of "group think?" There is nothing wrong with having opposing view points being fervently defended. Think of all the fun we have had over the past few days. I think many of the opinions expressed on this blog are the result of a Pro-Clinton Group think. On a blog if you have an opinion you should be able to defend it.

Dennis has his opinion (SPIN) but I strongly disagree with it. I sure as hell not gonna jump on the Clinton bandwagon until I have donated my last dime; make my last phone call; and organized my last action committee for Obama. If Hillary wins the nomination; I will do all I can to make sure she wins in the fall. In the meantime I am Pro-Obama.

Mary my IRA has lost 20percent since last year. Would have been a humongous blunder.

CG: Way to think for yourself and not get caught up in the “homogeneous group think”

Last thing before you break off all conversation with me. Find the IOWA Obama speech and listen to the entire message. If you don’t have chills and start to believe that anything is possible I will send each of you $100.

Angryman Troll

Back on the bandwagon, eh Brian?

It would beat the constant propoganda for HRC.

Actually, no it wouldn't. You may think it's fine and dandy to try to silence voices that don't go along with your opinions, but I'd call that undemocratic.

Brian:

I haven't lost the faith. I had a get out the vote campaign yesterday. 20 of us were calling to get out the vote while I was sending people to the poll from this blog.

Dennis:
That article is the result of the "GROUP THINK" thing I mentioned earlier. Crap nothing more.

all i know is that it's a great day and good to be alive.......i'm gonna sing all day

They're saying at least 44 died in last night's tornadoes. Just awful...

And geez, linking to Drudge. That's how bad this has gotten.

its the turnout, stupid. In New York, Hillary alone had twice the total GOP votes. If the dems vote for their candidate in the fall, they win. If they pout cause their guy/gal didn't get the nomination, its eight more years of Bush.

really..drudge??...please!!

44 dead is a tragedy..hillary mentioned it in her speech last night in ny..every one should watch it..thought it was pretty good

Obama won Missouri, again defying expectations and polls. Even with CA going decisively for Clinton, this is still a winning night for Obama based on the polling and expectations leading into the week. Obama won several surprise victories while Senator Clinton lost some states she was winning in the polls -- CT, MO and MN. Here's the thing... Clinton is way behind in cash. Obama can maintain his present clip for much longer and could potentially spend the Clintons into the ground.
Bob Cesca:

Coyote said:

...

It would beat the constant propoganda for HRC.

What constant propoganda [sic] for HRC would that be? Tweety's Hillary bashing? Tucker Carlson crossing his legs whenever he sees a picture of Hillary? The distortions of the Clinton campaign's statements to try and paint her people as racists?

I don't have a clear choice between Barack and Hillary. The people who were closest to me, political philosophy-wise (Kucinich and Edwards) are gone. Michael Moore's ficus plant could wipe the floor with any Republican't candidate. So I don't really see what good all the fuss and Democrat-bashing-Democrat hyperbole is accomplishing. But I'm not really all that impressed with the bucket of crabs strategery being employed by both Democratic front runners. I think they would both be better served by hammering any and all Republican'ts within target range.

Then again, (by choice) I don't listen to any of the mainstream media propaganda - so I'm not being conditioned by any of that spin. Perhaps their obvious Republican't bias, Obama fluffing, and Hitlery bashing haven't colored my perceptions as much as it has for most people.

I might turn in, however, to a pay-per-view death cage match where Rush, Rove, Hannity, Bennett, Coulter, Ingraham, both the Buchanans, Cavuto, Hume, Gibson, and Tucker Carlson went in, and only one comes out.

Tom, you'll notice I was quoting Brian, there. Thanks for expanding my point.

By winning a majority of delegates and a majority of the states, Barack Obama won an important Super Tuesday victory over Senator Clinton in the closest thing we have to a national primary. From Colorado and Utah in the west to Georgia and Alabama in the south to Senator Clinton’s backyard in Connecticut, Obama showed that he can win the support of Americans of every race, gender, and political party in every region of the country. That’s why he’s on track to win Democratic nomination, and that’s why he’s the best candidate to defeat John McCain in November.

Campaign MGR David Plouffe

i've stopped singing....and started whistling..what a day!

Dennis:
"44 dead is a tragedy..hillary mentioned it in her speech last night in ny..every one should watch it..thought it was pretty good"

You are one sick _other _ucker!

Glad you live in LA LA Land!

Singing, whistling, maybe you should dance next!

To tie in a tradgic story such as that with a (Supposed win) Hillary win C'mon now. Anybody who has a half a heart will understand the two have nothing to do with each other.

I understand that you are glad that Hillary didnt fall flat on her butt last night. But these are people that you are talking about, lives. Hundreds of people have been devastated and it is like bombs have gone off during the storms. At best you are a moron at worst you are an insensitive ass!

Well I'm glad to see Howard Dean has his eyes on the prize.

From an email I received this morning;

Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney are done. John McCain will be the Republican nominee -- he's the only one with a reasonable path to the nomination.

So how do we beat him? We stand up -- right now -- start fighting, and show the American people that he's not who they think he is.

We can't wait for Hillary or Barack to win the nomination. Now that the Republicans have a candidate, the dollars are starting to pour in from special interests who will do anything to beat the Democratic nominee. They're just waiting for us to decide so they can start smearing.

Here's what U.S. News and World Report recently reported about how the RNC is getting ready...
[RNC Chairman Mike] Duncan and his aides want to be ready to go on the offensive against the Democratic nominee presumptive in an effort to define the opposition candidate on GOP terms. Opposition research is already well along, and the plan is for surrogates to talk to the media around the country while a TV ad campaign in key states and media markets as soon as the Democratic nominee is determined.

We must be ready to fight back, and fight back hard, today.

Now that we know our opponent, it's time to build a national effort on the programs you and I have worked so hard to create over the last four years - from our cutting-edge technology to our voter protection programs, it's time to shift gears.

Good for Howard Dean!

stopped whistling..cause i was laughing so hard

Snark:

Did he provide specifics? I agree it is time to start to unite for the fall.

Hillary's win in California is considered by many such as Dennis as the sign that she will get the nomination. Not so fast. She was ahead by more than 20 points in California only weeks ago. Obama made significant inroad in bridging the gap. However, the earlier absentee ballots helped Hillary.

Obama got the movement going and its is difficult to stop a movement. I think he will win in PA, TX and other states with help of this movement. Do not count him out just yet.

Dennis & Coyote, it doesn't much matter what you think about the link to Drudge -- he's what the masses read, and right now he's linking to the Politco site, which, based on THREE separate sources, is projecting a delegate win for Obama. If you want to take some cold comfort somewhere, Democonwatch's delegate total -- no real projections, just the count as they have it right now -- shows Hillary ahead by 20 WHOLE delegates. ROTFLMAO!

Look, if you went to bed before 11 p.m. EST, it looked like Hillary was having a great night. Maybe you all are still operating under that misimpression. But if you followed it through the bitter (for Hillary) early hours, you know the tide turned for the worse for Hillary between 12-2:30 a.m., when Missouri broke for Obama. I guess the "Show Me State" really showed Hillary last night, LOL!

Obama took a solid majority of the states, at the very least tied up the delegates in practical terms and he may have even won the popular vote. I think Hillary had a clue it was going down that way, too. You notice who made the first appearance last night? Hillary. Obviously, she is not going to concede the whole race -- why would she? She could easily still win. But, traditionally, the loser appears first. Obama didn't go on the air until much later. Why? You be the judge.

Go ahead. Keep talking about what Hillary accomplished. In reality, her campaign team must be pooping bricks right now looking at the rest of this month's schedule, and you all better know it. She needed to bury Obama's campaign. She didn't, not even close. Embrace your delusions if you want, Clintonites, it will do you no good. Obama, who I thought was dead in the water two weeks ago, is seriously on the rise. Suck on that lemon, Clintonites. LOL!

Tom, you'll notice I was quoting Brian, there.

Yes, I did notice that. My apologies if there was some confusion as to who my comment was directed towards.

Thanks for expanding my point.

You're welcome.

Posted by iamcoyote at February 6, 2008 06:25 AM

By winning a majority of delegates and a majority of the states, Barack Obama won an important Super Tuesday victory over Senator Clinton in the closest thing we have to a national primary.

Campaign MGR David Plouffe

Posted by angryman Troll at February 6, 2008 06:40 AM

A couple of questions:

Whose campaign manager is this? Obama's? If so, why shouldn't it be treated as political spin?

Obama did win the majority of the states in play yesterday. However, it was my understanding that Clinton won the majority of delegates in play yesterday.

It also seems to me that neither one of them won a resounding decisive victory yesterday, and that things are as undecided today as they were on Monday. So for either side to claim victory would be dinsingenuous IMHO.

The Obama people used to say that Hillary will unite the republican party, now that James Dobson and some other right wingers are vowing not to vote for McCain, the talk has now shifted to Obama movement. interesting.

I like both Hillay and Obama, but the msm coverage of this primary is one sided and anti Hillary.

Tom, it is indeed true that while Obama won more states especially smaller ones, Hillay won more delegates. However, it seems that Obama supporters either dont care about the facts or just ignorants.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, and I know it's just spin, but even with Obama supporters dominating the blogs, the news, liberal talk radio, mailers, push pollers, plus the right wing noise machine all aiming for Clinton for 16 years, and still Obama is considered the winner, and his loss yesterday considered "historic." He skates into second place on a magical pony, while Clinton has to fight against all that, only to have all that effort virtually ignored. Now, everyone has been screaming for 7 years for a fighting dem, and you got one dangling right in front of you. It'd be comical if it weren't so indicative of the utter stupidity of humans and their futile quest for a perfection that just doesn't exist.

iamcoyote

well said ...it is simply amazing listening to these people..it really really is..reality just doesn't mean anything

Giving Obama's poor performance in the debates so far, he will have a serious problem debating any republican candidate. To make the matter worse, he will not have Fox news and the rest of MSM on his side at that time.

dennis, what it is is dispiriting, and embarrassing, at least for me. I really believed all that "reality-based" shit, and it turns out that it lasted only as long as it was convenient, then discarded at the first sign of competition. And the Obamabots say they're the big dreamers! Sigh.

perhaps it is because all they are is big dreamers...

Tom:

Actually I agree with your perspective as an impartial observer. However, when you deal with the perceptions; Clinton needed to bury Obama last night. One thing you must admit is that the name “Clinton” is powerful especially in the Democratic Party (Bill has 70% favorability rating). Geez, it is called the “Clinton Machine” is so powerful. Look at what happened in Florida. Hillary won big without stepping a foot in Florida.

Strictly in terms of momentum and ability to close the gap; you have to give the night to Obama. I mean Obama has been down nationally 30 points in the national polling. People are taking a second look at Obama and saying like Brian did earlier; maybe this guy can win.

I don’t know how LA is polling right now; but Obama is headed there today. Don’t take my word for it just watch the polls. When Obama meets and greets individuals they come away changed and believing that it is possible. That is the Dynamic that is working in the Obama camp that many have described it as a “movement”. Even Bill can’t stop a movement.

My 401k results for the last six months of last year increased by double digits...AFTER the decimal point, that is. Woo HOO! My int'l and super-low-risk portions saved me from the US investments.

And in other news:

Veterans not entitled to mental health care, U.S. lawyers argue

Veterans have no legal right to specific types of medical care, the Bush administration argues in a lawsuit accusing the government of illegally denying mental health treatment to some troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The arguments, filed Wednesday in federal court in San Francisco, strike at the heart of a lawsuit filed on behalf of veterans that claims the health care system for returning troops provides little recourse when the government rejects their medical claims...

The plaintiffs say that the department has a backlog of more than 600,000 disability claims and that 120 veterans a week commit suicide...

They have done your dirty work for you. You extended their tours, preventing them from going home when their commitment was over (stop-loss) and repeatedly sent them back for longer tours.

Fucking bu$h administration. Jesus H, Support the Troops! HELP THESE MENTALLY ILL SOLDIERS!!!

Coyote:
Don't give up on your candidate. Hang in there! I know we disagree but don't give up.

10million turn out for the Dems last night

6 million turn out for Repubs last night.

GO DEMS!

However, when you deal with the perceptions; Clinton needed to bury Obama last night.

I keep seeing this everywhere. On first glance, it's hilarious - it's a line intended to shape a perception, and those who keep saying it don't seem to see the irony. As I think about it, I wonder "why?" Why does she need to win by a landslide, while Obama comes in second place and he's considered the winner, despite (I hear) Clinton getting not only the delegates, but also the popular vote. I know it's a saying that women have to work twice as hard to get to the same place as a man, but to watch supposed progressives en masse sign on to this theory is really, really sad.

Six:
This should get your blood pumping if you have not heard this yet.

Nickel and-Diming Our Wounded: Iraq Vet Forced to Pay Back Army Bonus

Posted November 27, 2007 | 04:25 PM (EST)
Former Private First Class Jordan Fox was injured by a roadside bomb in Iraq. He suffered a serious back injury, and he lost sight in his right eye.
A few short weeks after his honorable discharge from the Army, a letter came by mail from the Defense Department. Was it a letter informing him of local veterans' clinics where he could receive vocational rehabilitation or counseling? No. A signed "thank you for your service" from the Secretary of Defense, or perhaps the President? No. It was a bill for nearly $3,000.

Since Fox was too severely injured to complete his military service, the Defense Department was demanding that he return part of his enlistment bonus. In the Army bureaucracy, his wounds didn't matter. The Army machine wanted its money back.

Paul Rieckhoff

This is an excerpt from the fall. If you have not heard this story this should get you motivated to “throw the bums out.”

Any of you that wanted to do away with the Electoral College took a hit last night. Nevada has HC winning the pop vote and Obama gets more delegates, then last night Obama winning the pop vote in Mo. and HC gets more delegates. There's no way we would ever reform the EC without first seeing the Democrats reform their party delegate rules.

Overall, Obama made up 10 delegates on HC count.

Don't forget, this is the candidate who said "I have been against abortion since it's conception."

McCain + Supreme Court = R v. W overturned.

Coyote:

“I know it's a saying that women have to work twice as hard to get to the same place as a man, but to watch supposed progressives en masse sign on to this theory is really, really sad.”

It’s not about Hillary being a woman. Seriously, trust me. Do you think we support Obama because he is a man? Is it so far fetched to you that the Clintons don’t actually represent “Change” to most people (TO ME THIS IS WHERE BILL HURTS HER). It seems to me that you want a woman to win and it justs happens to be Hillary. Am I right? Not matter what happens you can take solice in the fact that she is the first credibible woman candidate to mount a serious run for the presidency.

And yes, I do feel there is a bias in the media against the Clintons. But you have to admit; it is not entirely without merit.

But don’t be dismayed. Look at the political landscape in the Dem Party. Women are governors, leaders in congress, former and current secretary of state and the list goes on and on. Whenever international events happen in the world; guess who CNN rushes to the war room? Madeline Albright. Believe me there are lots of us who don’t give a crap if Hillary is a woman or not. It is about our past experiences with the "Clinton Brand" and the possibilities of a new future with Obama.

McCain + Supreme Court = R v. W overturned.

I dunno, Judith, if Bush with his dictatorship couldn't do it, I'm not sure McCain will do it. He'll no doubt promise anything to get the fundies to vote for him, though, and the judges he would appoint will be just as bad as Roberts. I don't believe the "Limbaugh and Dobson won't vote for him" meme for one minute - they'll vote for anything that promises more dead people.

don't fret..it's gonna be hillary naming the judges for the next 8 yrs..

Bravo, dennis & coyote.

The "almost won" is really a "win" Obamanauts are quite amusing.

Look carefully at most of the states Obama won: they'll go Repub in the fall anyway, for McCain.

Hillary CLEARLY carried the traditional Democratic base, plus more.

For all the MSM gloating of the Obama "surge," the DK bragging that Obama was going to "obliterate" her, it sure looks like Mighty Mouse tore his cape.

Uncle Teddy didn't help , either, even with all the media rah-rah-rah. Teddy couldn't even help him win Massachusetts, let alone Hispanics in California---clearly, a poor Obama calculation.

I think we ALL knew that whatever happened, the Obamanauts would manipulate the spin.

Delegates, delegates, delegates, they said.

Hillary won that, too, so far.

But most importantly, in the Democratic states where the BASE is sure to vote our ticket in November, it's Hillary.

Does anyone actually believe that Georgia or Alabama will go blue in November?

Don't be too sure, dennis. The tone of the Obama supporters has gotten twice as nasty, it seems to me, which now makes it downright malevolent. Even SoS, who's usually very level-headed is attacking me, and I'm really making an effort to not be provocative. I hate to lose a friendship that I care about, but I shouldn't have to back down from a cause I believe in to keep it. God, I hate this.

Look carefully at most of the states Obama won: they'll go Repub in the fall anyway, for McCain.

Not Colorado.

Before you speak on this issue the thing to look for is voter turnout in those states. If Dems had a better turnout than repukes, it will go Democratic.

I'm sure someone has those stats.

You make the same mistake many Obamanauts do, Seven.

You ASSume that the huge Democratic voter turnout is only because of Obama.

It's not.

Americans are turning out AGAINST the Bush cabal.

"Change" theme is against Bush, and not necessarily FOR Obama.

Now YOU tell me if any of these states will vote Democratic in NOvember:

Georgia, Alabama, Kansas , North Dakota, Utah, Iowa.

Those are RED states, Seven. As such, all it means is that Obama won within the smaller Democratic contingency, but it won't be a win in November.

HILLARY won the traditional Democratic states that will matter.

And Florida is CRUCIAL to a national win.

Hillary won that one handily.

The tone of the Obama supporters has gotten twice as nasty, it seems to me, which now makes it downright malevolent. iac

Before you speak on this issue the thing to look for is voter turnout in those states. If Dems had a better turnout than repukes, it will go Democratic. SoS

Damn your malevolence, SoS! It's twice, twice, twice as malevolent as before!

Even SoS, who's usually very level-headed is attacking me...

I'm not attacking you.
I disagree with eRiposte's threads. I dislike the constant backing of Hillary by everyone of the major bloggers here at TLC. Like I said, not one article here has ever presented Obama in a positive note.
It's evident that you favor Hillary, I favor Obama. In the end, if Hillary is the nominee, I will love her. Ankles and all. ;)

Well Mary, what about MO. And Obama could have a chance in MI, with the jobless problem. He won't do bad in FL.

Whatever happens, the talking heads sure are enjoying it. Doesn't look like the politics of personality are going away anytime soon. And they're just eating it up.

And they love Johnny Mac.

The saving grace right now is that McCain isn't gonna be able to answer a debate question on any issue without saying, in effect, that he'll continue the wonderful policies of the Bush administration.

chuck colson who worked for nixon ...and is now a christian convert of some kind..had a plaque in his office which read..."when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow"...despite the spin.. hillary has him by the balls..and they know it..when she starts to squeeze..his heart and mind will follow ..vp..

..."when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow"...

I see your there already dennis.

Mary: (You are not supposed to respond to me by the way)

You are wrong in so many ways but I will hit a few.

Clinton won FL on name recognition and nothing more. There are reports today that people are calling their local voting officials and asking “when is the primary vote is going to occur?” (LOL) Voter turn out was marginally better than normal because of an amendment to increase homestead exemption to lower taxes. Watch the up coming states that Obama will get a chance to visit and hold rallies. March 4 (TX); Clinton is currently leading Obama 48-38. Now watch what happens from here. You will see new people organizing and motivating new voters.

My prediction is that Obama will win Texas once people meet him and get a chance to listen to him live. He will slowly build his lead as he racks up delegate after delegate. The super delegates will have to follow the popular vote eventually. As I said it is a "movement." Those super delegates who jumped on the Clinton bandwagon too early will slowly abandon her when it looks like she is loosing ground. (Strange how that works) Charlie Rangel is backing Hillary; Ms. Rangel is backing Obama. Talking about hedging your bets (LOL)

Just standby.

Six:

This is a Clinton Blog. I am an outcast because I dont agree with them. (LOL)

You ASSume that the huge Democratic voter turnout is only because of Obama.

Why shouldn't they assume it, Mary? Obama took credit for it at the last debate.

I'm not attacking you.

Well, I guess I'm just collateral damage, then. *Heavy sigh* Isn't that always the way; women always lose the most in wars. You may think you're attacking eriposte, but what you're really doing is trivializing the very real problem of sexism with snide comments. I don't expect you to stop supporting your candidate or attacking the other, but I also didn't expect such nastiness on an issue you've supported in the past.

I'm not attacking you.

You're wasting your time trying to explain yourself here, SoS. As long as you don't drink the Kool-Aid and agree with everything these people support -and on their exact terms- you will be attacking them. Any innocuous comment will get you labeled twice as malevolent. Clinton plays the victim card on the AUMF, why would you expect anything less of Clinton's supporters? Look at the lengths they go to to play the victim card on every negative Clinton brings to the election: "It's misogyny! It's hatred! They read from the the Republican play book!"

Don't bother trying to explain. There's no reason to justify anything you've said.

"...when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow..."

Misogynist!!! Uhhhh...wait! If you get 1 malevolent for each ball does that make this twice as malevolent? Someone call Lance Armstrong and ask.

i am a hillary clinto fan because i believe she is best qualified..with bill by her side to run the country at the present time..no more ..no less..i like barack obame and think he is a good man..i don't believe he is ready..and what hillary clinton has had to endure from so many..msm..and many people here on this blog has been relentless..well she won last night..won big despite the spin..she won where there were more people then pigs.. and when it was all said and done she withstood everything..i respect the hell out of her

The saving grace right now is that McCain isn't gonna be able to answer a debate question on any issue without saying, in effect, that he'll continue the wonderful policies of the Bush administration.

The sucky part is, whatever he says then will be viewed as brilliant nuggets of wisdom by the bobbleheads, instead of the turd nuggets they really are. They'll have a hard time keeping the grimace of disgust off their faces, though, and that could be fun!

And isn't really sad to see what p-dip has become? You used to be respected, (a little), and now you sound like Bagley. So many casualties in this primary...

Coyote:

You are WAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too sensitive. As I have said here before. Any person, man, woman, boy or girl who is against Hillary or Bill is labeled misogynistic or sexist.

phidip...and to think i thought i missed you..only kidding

phidipides:
”Misogynist!!! Uhhhh...wait! If you get 1 malevolent for each ball does that make this twice as malevolent? Someone call Lance Armstrong and ask.”

Touché and OUCH!

Lots of acrimony for sure.

I hope whoever gets the nomination wins in November because if not the netroots bloodbath is gonna be really ugly.

Not to mention that the country will have that last clinging finger stomped off the rim of the toilet bowl.

Not to mention that the country will have that last clinging finger stomped off the rim of the toilet bowl.

Heh. Great visual! And on my bad days, like today, I think it might be a good idea. But I have kids, and would prefer they not have to live in a dictatorship. 'Course kids are resilient, aren't they?

Good analogy. (You cant respond; I have been banished)

(You cant respond; I have been banished)

If you had been banished your comments would either be lacking any vowels when they appeared on the screen or would disappear in short order after having been posted. Don't flatter yourself.

Had you not wished fellow commenters off to Iraq for a swift and brutal death you may have experienced a warmer welcome here.

Isn't that always the way; women always lose the most in wars. You may think you're attacking eriposte, but what you're really doing is trivializing the very real problem of sexism with snide comments.

Coyote, I never originally brought up the issue of race, gender, paroxysm, sexism, misogyny or hate.

I say it as I see it. I can't help that.
To me, the politicians running as Presidential candidates are just people. No more, no less. Look at how the MSM introduces the repuke candidates. Not a mention that they are white, christian males. Just Presidential Candidates.
Wouldn't it be nice, for once, if Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were just candidates? Not a woman, not an African-American but Presidential Candidates?

Yes, sexism is a "very real problem". However, I feel this is not the time to have some sort of social experiment, too much is at stake. I want what is best for this country just like you. I could give a shit if Hillary is a woman, or Barack is black, I want this country to be the once great nation it used to be. I'm voting Democratic. If the problem of sexism is remedied then great but it is not the issue of President of the United States of America.

That said, I'm not going to have my feelings swayed because Hillary is a woman, or because Barack is black. The time for theatrics is over.

You have seen my comments before. I wanted Edwards, unity, a solid Democratic Party. That's all I've ever wanted.

The articles that I have read here, albeit solidly written, have been over the top in favor of Hillary. And approaching super-tuesday they got more and more melodramatic, as if they were screaming for attention. Sorry, in some respects, I see that in the Clinton campaign. (And yes, in the crazed Obama supporters.)

From the regulars, who do we have here supporting Obama? Anjha, T2, e, phid, and me (anyone I forgot sorry). That's it. And most of us are just trying to have a reasonable conversation about Obama and pleading to have somebody write something positive about him. It really is frustrating to see your favorite blog not have differing opinions posted.

That's the reason for my snide comments at the expense of Hillary.

Snark:

You should hide undercover because you dont want to go head to head with me. You will cry like your other blog mates.

You should hide undercover because you dont want to go head to head with me. You will cry like your other blog mates.

angryman, Don't you get it... there is a reason most us are ignoring you.

Six of Seven:
Yes, because I have a different opinion.

The articles that I have read here, albeit solidly written, have been over the top in favor of Hillary.

Maybe that's because Jeff Dinelli is the only one who consistently blogs. I don't even remember who "David G." is, but his name is sure featured prominantly on the banner.

My point being, Soto brought in campaign bloggers to follow (most) of the candidates. Only one stepped up.

If that, by default, makes this a pro-Hillary site, that's only by default.

Six of Seven:

At least get the name right.

gotcha. nice.

At least get the name right.

Name recognition is not one of his strong suits SoS.

Coyote, it's fun to see you in the center of the action for a change instead of sniping from the wings. And I'm with you 100%.

As I think about it, I wonder "why?" Why does she need to win by a landslide, while Obama comes in second place and he's considered the winner, despite (I hear) Clinton getting not only the delegates, but also the popular vote.

Exactly. Hillary won last night, but now we're being told she didn't win HARD enough. Um, what?

The tone of the Obama supporters has gotten twice as nasty, it seems to me, which now makes it downright malevolent.

Can't help but notice that. It's almost cultish.

Maybe that's because Jeff Dinelli is the only one who consistently blogs.

I guess you missed the body of work that eRiposte has worked on. It's impressive.

Turkana will work on other articles but he has never done anything supporting Obama.

I guess you missed the body of work that eRiposte has worked on. It's impressive.

Well, no offense to eriposte but "A Brief History Of The Clintons Vol. 12 Chapter 24" is a bit daunting for my limited workday reading time. 8)

I keed because I love, eriposte. I hope you're getting paid in some way for all the hard work you do.

But I was specifically speaking of the campaign followers who were recruited by Soto.

This will offend anyone, male or female. This is what we will be facing in the coming months when the Right Wing Slime Machine is in full motion.

It's a guy selling t-shirts, SoS. Don't promote him, just walk away.

Nice to see you again, MV - did snark give ya what for? I told you he's convincing. Nice to see that someone besides me understands the way the posting turned out heavily for Hillary by accident. I wish the others could have stuck around, for balance, but really, blogging's damn hard to keep up day after day, we take what we can get.

SoS, I'm getting interrupted too much to answer all your concerns, except to say that I wish the sexism post had come at a different time, because it was inevitable that it would be construed as an attempt to affect people's opinions at an already volatile time. Sadly, it ended up even worse, that the issue was shitcanned altogether. I'll answer more when a get a block of free time, or email you later. Still pals??

You know, this troll's pattern looks awfully familiar. Anyone remember dipshit? Or u.jest? I think it's a rightwinger trying to do what peter does, sow discord, but with even less talent. I'm gonna see if I can get a bead on the IP and make a connection. Threats of violence in the meat world are a big no-no on any blog.

Nice to see you again, MV - did snark give ya what for? I told you he's convincing.

Yeah, he did. And he stayed on it for days after everybody else had abandoned the post.

He almost had me convinced, but then Willie jumped on my side. 8)

Nice to see that someone besides me understands the way the posting turned out heavily for Hillary by accident. I wish the others could have stuck around, for balance, but really, blogging's damn hard to keep up day after day, we take what we can get.

And it's work that doesn't pay, so all the more reason not to stick with it. Still, some of those guys never posted a single blog.

Hope your day turns around for the better. And you know I was out there yesterday, giving it up for my man Dr. Paul and his delegates.

DON'T TAX ME, BRO!!! 8)

Dr. Paul, huh? Always reminds me of Dr. Phil, that other smarmy hack. *smirk* He's still in the race?

Lol!

Did Willie do his own Thermite experiments?

;)

I have it on good authority that the guy's nickname is Nine-Fingered Willie!

The Doctor is still IN. I'm with him all the way. After he's gone, I don't know what I'm gonna do. There are no other candidates left in the race that I want.

One thing's for sure -- I will vote against McOld, Romney the animal torturer, or Fuckabee.

"If that, by default, makes this a pro-Hillary site, that's only by default."

MaskedVigilante, I made note of that fact days ago. I don't think we ever heard from John Patric who was campaign blogger/reporter for the John Edwards campaign.

Seven of Six, I voted for John Edwards yesterday. I suppose it was a protest vote and the person I had hoped would be the Democratic candidate.

Did Willie do his own Thermite experiments?

Willie and I rode around in the soybean oil tour bus for a week and smoked up some thermite. Ate some shrooms. It all became so clear. 8)

Good for you, Judith! I wish he could have stayed in until the convention, but at least you got to vote for him.

Well, MV, you could always vote Democratic. Really, it's all for the good of the country! And admit it, we've all won you over with our delightful reparte.

Well, MV, you could always vote Democratic. Really, it's all for the good of the country!

I used to do that. All the way back to Dukakis, I think. Can't remember if I was old enough then.

I know I voted Clinton/Clinton/Gore/Kerry. I'm only a recent convert to Libertarianism.

Kucinich would've had my vote, for sure. Unless it came down to DK vs. Dr. Paul. But that would only happen in an alternate universe.

I don't believe in Obama. And I don't know if I could sleep with myself anymore if I voted for Hillary.

As always, it comes down to the lesser of two evils. Or as they said on South Park, the Giant Douche vs. the Turd Sandwich.

Pay attention to the analysis of the Republican race, guys.

It's showing that all the moderate Republicans and Independents who are ANGRY at George Bush are going for John McCain. (crazy, I know)

But the real point is, in those red states where Obamanauts are claiming he'll take the whole state in the general, he's toast. The angry white guys in the middle are going John McCain.

And all the crucial Dem states went Hillary.

Here are the Florida numbers:

Clinton 856,944
McCain 693,425
Romney 598,152
Obama 568,930

Obama couldn't even beat Romney, let alone McCain. Hillary whupped all of them.

Point being, make a long story short.....those angry at Bush in the red states Obama won.....are going overwhelmingly for John McCain, according to analysis.

This will offend anyone, male or female.

Oh just ducky. Now the next post against Obama will feature this acronym prominently in the headline: A Paroxysm of Sexism, Misogyny, Hate and C....

It's a guy selling t-shirts, SoS. Don't promote him, just walk away.

It's still the kind of crap that Democrats will have to face this coming summer.

And yes I know how to change the channel.

...I wish the sexism post had come at a different time, because it was inevitable that it would be construed as an attempt to affect people's opinions at an already volatile time.

No doubt coyote, no doubt.

Still pals??

Always coyote.

And don't be pissed at phid. I really think he was going for the extreme effect.

Way to go Judith!
Somehow, in a dream I have, I see it going to the second or third ballot at the convention, then Al Gore coming on stage and gets the nomination!

Oh just ducky. Now the next post against Obama will feature this acronym prominently in the headline: A Paroxysm of Sexism, Misogyny, Hate and C....

Oh fuck phid! ROFLMAO!!! It hurts!!

I don't get it, seriously. Besides, that guy's group was featured in that post. Hmm, one would think you guys didn't read it...

I don't get it, seriously. Besides, that guy's group was featured in that post. Hmm, one would think you guys didn't read it...

Thanks for connecting the dots coyote... I guess I needed the visual of the T-Shirt.

It's so nice to read of a united Democratic Party on this blog. What ever happened to David G. and his blogging about Obama. He disappeared real fast.

1. She lost the delegate derby.
2. She essentially tied Obama in the popular vote.
3. She lost more states.
4. She lost the January cash war.
5. The calendar is her enemy.
h/t politico.com

H. Clinton is a loser. It's Obama's time to shine.

It's so nice to read of a united Democratic Party on this blog.

Democrats are united. I see you've never been in a room full of Democrats discussing candidates. It's kinda like an Irish pub when someone doesn't cheer the proper football team. There will black eyes, broken furniture, and likely someone tossed out the window. But in the morning they'll all be mates again. Just wait and see.

If you guys want to pull this one out you need to get christ on your ticket, and I don't mean Chuckabee. No perceived Democratic split will save your lame butts.

You see Phid, nice to read you here again, indi's don't like the picture you just painted. The race card, the gender card, they've already been played. The effect is out there. This race has been "Democrats to lose", and y'all are doing it each and every day this goes on. McOld is going to have a good time in the GE, with king George handing over the reigns of the presidency to him. Then there's the leadersheep and princess sparkle, what a fine group you've got in Congress.

Again, really nice to have you around again. Phid you add much to place, please stay around a while.