I love how they're destroying themselves. Are they doing it on purpose?

I'm trying to remember a candidate who never had people who didn't support her.

It's too bad that Bill Clinton pushed changes and rules to get all those media mergers back in the nineties. Maybe we could have had a greater variety of news commentary on the air.

Every day I come to Left Coaster. I used to come for stories about the crimes of BushCo, but now it seems it's mostly boohoos for people who are mean to Hillary.

Myself, I dimissed Matthews as worthless when he was columnist for the SF Examiner twenty years ago. Since I almost never watch television for the talking heads I don't get upset at Olbermann or whoever this Schuster is. I rarely visit Kos, and his continued ignorance on election fraud has eliminated his opinion on any topic.

So back to the issues. How come Clinton's foreign policy advisors supported and continue to support the invasion of Iraq?

We are now in an all out war aginst even the few liberal voices we have in the Media. Shuster and Oberman exposed Scooter when no one else would. Both of them daily expose the corrupt Republican machine, vis a vis the Republicans in congress and their lock step with Bush on the WAR. Moreover they joined the Blogging Community first before anyone else would. They championed people like Chris Dodd and Russ Feingold in causes that were not poplular in Main Stream Media discussions. The war is something Keith continues to discuss when no one else will. HIs special comments discussion, regarding GWB were brave, he took on the established corporate media, only to be slimmed and snarked now by this blog.
David Shusters reporting on the Scooter Libby defaming of Valerie Plame was alone, night after night.

What is wrong with the Hillery supporters here???
I agree the remark about Chelsea last night was out of line and did annoy me, however Bill's remarks about Jesse Jackson in South CArolina were terrible. It seems to me after reading all the poll statistics, Bill knew exactly what he was doing. Those latino votes stayed firmly in the Clinton Camp. Bills nasty comments worked.
No posts here on that issue.
Stop slimming the few people in the Media that speak out for Progressives. What Keith isn't allowed to make any money, like emmm Mark Penn draining the Clinton Campaign?????

if the commentators support your candidate, they are insightful and progressive. If they don't, they suck and are scumbags. Again, I fail to see the "news" in this, after all, there is an entire network that specializes in hack attacks. I agree that in a perfect world (Hillary's, apparently) all the Media would be non-partisan and fair and balanced. It's far from a perfect world. far. far.

eriposte:

You are seriously coming unhinged. Seriously.

I have a big problem with news anchors expressing their personal political views, except in rare cases. But that is a phenomenon that has been going on for years now and is a discussion for another day.

I also agree -- as I have said many times in comments -- that Obama's "change" and "trancendental" rhetoric appears to be vaporware.

Olberman has been one of the sternest critics of Bush in the mainstream media. If he has written off Hillary's (and Bill's) willingness to oppose the GOP, I don't blame him. Yes, Hillary has the superior progressive record to Obama, but on the issues that really matter (i.e. the spying, the torture, the vast criminal behavior of the Bush administration and the undermining of the Constitutional foundation of our government) the Clintons have been AWOL.

But, for God's sake, I can't blame KO for backing Obama. He knows what he is getting from Hillary: nothing, save a promise to be a more effective chief executive than Bush has been.

So, instead of pouting like a petulant child when those who have the best track records in the blogosphere and msm for documenting and criticism the Bush-Cheney atrocities don't support Hillary, why not try, you know, winning them over.

Shuster needs to apologize on-air for the Chelsea comment. It was awful, and discredits his usually excellent reporting. If he doesn't, combined with KO's open Obama support, Chris Matthew's anti-Hillary ravings and saying Barack is something out of the New Testament, MSNBC has all the credibility of Fox or Comedy Central. The latter, by the way, has the best media analysis anywhere at the moment.

Amusing -- no, irritating -- that the Obama supporters see nothing wrong. What would have happened if Shuster had done this to Obama's kid!

LOL! The nukes would come out.

I know why you defending them, because they're rabid supporters of your candidate! Well go on defending them, because you're going to look like a hypocrite if your guy wins! They will suddenly turn to McCain and you won't be happy at all.

Thankfully it looks like the lion's share of Obama support is among "activists" not among the core of the party. The bright folks have come to their senses already.

does Obama have kids?

The most likely scenario is that Hillary will win the nomination along with John McCain.

At that time, it may finally dawn on the unhinged crew here at the left coaster that Fox News, Hillary's new BFF, may not have her best interests at heart. And that the dKos community, no matter the scorn the Team Hillary now heaps on them, will, once again, come to the defense of an unappreciative and dismissive Democratic leader.

Space
Sadly your comment is the most on target.

rm forsyth,

It's amazing you don't attack Olbermann for sliming Democrats. Instead, you expect us to not only accept the likes of Shuster, but defend his baseless, intolerant smearing.

Misogyny is bigotry. Period. Regardless who's the target (Yes, even it goddamn Ann Coulter was the target) all progressives must condemn it. Besides, even if you somehow fail to grasp what is so obviously blatant, at the very least it's outrageous.

We, as Democrats, are doing ourselves a tremendous disservice by seemingly doing everything we can to piss off women by staying silent or being amused the outrageous shit being aimed at Clinton. We take their votes for granted at our peril.

Mrs. Clinton has been riding the coat tails of her husband. Gender aside, she has less experience than Mr. Obama. This country will benefit from a clean break from the Bush and Clinton years. I am in the age group of women who support Mrs. Clinton. Odd isn't it that every woman I know doesn't support Mrs. Clinton? I used to love this blog, no more.

if the commentators support your candidate, they are insightful and progressive. If they don't, they suck and are scumbags.

Hence, the vilification of Krugman. Sigh. I remember a time when the left was outraged at unfair attacks on Chelsea.

Two points, folks

It is imperative that progressives do not at this critical point start to attack Keith Olbermann who may or not be progressive but who sure as hell speaks truth to power night after night

It is important that the DEMOCRATIC candidate wins. Period.
And sniping about who supports Hillary or who supports Obama
is irrelevant. My first choice was Kucinich. My second choice was Edwards. My third choice is Obama. But if Hillary is the nominee I won't cry about it.

For God's sake this election is just too important for this kind of bullshit from bloggers like "eriposte"

David Schuster is first a good guy and I want stand by while he is vilified. He apologized this morning on MSNBC during Morning Joe. He knows it was wrong and admitted it. Now for Hillary's BFF Fixed Noise: If Hillary wins the nomination lets see how much the folks at Fox loves and supports her. You guys will pray like hell that KO and Tweety speaks up like they have in the past, for issues that most concern us. Further more, KO has through his personal commentary; personal called out Bush/Chaney on many issues too numerous to mention here. Tweety has shouted down many Bush cronies and made them tell the truth on Hardball. So maybe you should point the brunt of your ire where it belongs. Hillary’s new BFF Fixed Noise. This is a case of throwing the “baby out with the bath water.”

Now it is time for a member of the GROUP THINK to speak

T2, Barack and Michelle have two beautiful young daughters who sometimes are onstage with their parents, but, like Barack says, "would rather be upstairs watching Spongebob." Smart kids, I say, Spongebob rawks.

Coyote, right on (natch).

Angryman, I'm happy to read your report that Shuster apologized on-air, I'd love to see a clip of that if anyone has a link.

KO is NOT a friend of progressives. Anyone who bows to the network pressures like that is no better than a Faux News commentator.

Yeah, I do think that MSNBC is trying to destroy Keith. However, he's part and parcel to the destruction. I have no respect for him as a conveyer of the facts. He's a sellout.

I'll stick with Moyer.

And anyone who thinks Shuster can just say any freaking thing he wants about women and it's okay if he apologizes for it -- is probably a man.

Gender aside, she has less experience than Mr. Obama.

How do you figure?

Sigh. I remember a time when the left was outraged at unfair attacks on Chelsea.

And Bill.

iamcoyote:

Interesting that you recognize that Obama taking on Krugman pissed off a bunch of progressives, but can't see the problem with taking on KO.

I am not here to defend Chris Matthews, but the truth is that he has been a sexist asshole for years. Where have the Clintons been this whole time? It's like they woke up from a slumber and decided, "hey, this media situation isn't that great" now that it directly affects Hillary's candidacy?

Yeah, well, who signed the 1996 telecommunications act? Where were the Clintons in 2000 when Gore was being slimed and Florida was being stolen? Where were they in 2002 and 2003 when the media was in the tank for Bush's war? Where were they in 2004 when the media chopped Dean off at the knees and "let the people decide" the swift boat accusations? Where are they every single freaking day?

I know! They are having lunch with Richard Mellon Scaife. They are fund-raising with Rupert Murdoch. And they support Rev. Sun Myung Moon. Needless to say, these are three RW goons whose media empires routinely trash the Clintons for sport and profit. Yet, when given opportunities to challenge these RW icons, the Clintons have reached out in a spirit of unity.

Yesterday Bill O'Reilly called Tweety on his "when you hear Obama speak, and you don't cry, you're not an American" supposed statement.

Did Tweety really say that?

Keith started this anti Hillary crap all of a sudden, like he got called into the office and was told to get with the program. He seemed pretty neutral prior to that.

Tweety is a hack. You don't apologize to women for 4 minutes unless you really are a pig that got caught with its snout in the chauvenist trough once too often.
MSNBC has been good on the war and Bush scandals.

shorter space: she deserves it.

wow space, you're such an original thinker.

Damn. The only people who first woke up from the BUSH media lock step are the people you are now bashing. Otherwise the media would continue to print the regurgitated crap that the Bush administration put out. What mainstream station stopped the GROUP THINK and called them on it? Lets see now, was it FOX…nah that’s not it.

Space, you're right on the Telecommunications Act, that was and remains a travesty.

In 2000 Gore refused President Clinton's offers of help. Al made it a point to distance himself from the Clintons during that election.

We have seen the enemy and he is us...and the major problem is that people with these types of bullypulpits have some responsibility...even someone like Markos who is now writing a column for Time and who's rightwing counterpart is kkKarl Rove. I don't know how many times Markos has mentioned in the past about how his blog's major purpose is to elect Democrats...but apparently what he really means is "his" kind of Democrat. I know a blog is one thing, but when you have such a major following and influence he should at least be able to set the tone there and remind folks more often about that...passion is good, but hate filled tear down passion is bad...if that is truly Markos' belief. Anyway kkKarl is laughing his fat arse off and squealing in his divide-and-conquer strategy delight hoping to capitalize on the intraparty nastiness and divisiveness that is often fostered and fueled over on sites like the Daily Obamakos...and that apparently now leftwing media fav's such as Olbmerann and Shuster feel comfortable participating in. Shame on them. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's inexcusable no matter what side does it.

And hopefully Shuster did apologize..hopefully he'll do it on Olbermann's show too. Because that comment was just unnecessarily cruel,juvenile, and repuke-like in it's idiotic meanness...very uncalled for....and hopefully those in positions with larger megaphones and influence are condemning it and calling for this type of talk to stop.

Interesting that you recognize that Obama taking on Krugman pissed off a bunch of progressives, but can't see the problem with taking on KO.

Interesting that you make this assumption without any evidence.

It's like they woke up from a slumber and decided, "hey, this media situation isn't that great" now that it directly affects Hillary's candidacy?

Funny how you've forgotten about the time Hillary coined the term "vast right wing conspiracy." It would seem they've been disturbed by the media bias for quite some time. Feminist blogs and Media Matters have been chronicling Tweety's sexism for years.

Keith started this anti Hillary crap all of a sudden, like he got called into the office and was told to get with the program. He seemed pretty neutral prior to that.

It makes you wonder, doesn't it? In any case, any kind of hero worship rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's just blind adulation. I tried watching KO once and he spent 15 minutes on the stupid Natalie Halloway thing. Last time I bothered. The only time I ever watch tv news is when there's a debate on. The rest of the time, it's like those stupid World Wrestling shows I sometimes see commercials for. Yuck, why bother?

iamcoyote: What "assumption" did I make without evidence?

And to the anonymous coward who suggested that I am saying that Hillary "deserves it",

And, yes, iamcoyote, I have largely forgotten Hillary's VRWC rhetoric. Maybe because she made the comment 10 years ago and then proceeded to backpeddle away from it as fast as she could once the Kool Kids started mocking her.

The fact that you need to go back 10 years to find evidence of Hillary challenging the media is a tacit admission that she has not been attacking on this score.

"In any case, any kind of hero worship rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's just blind adulation."

I have a winger friend who is guilty of that one. They will have to pull Rush Limbaugh from his cold dead eardrums.

I don't know how many times Markos has mentioned in the past about how his blog's major purpose is to elect Democrats...but apparently what he really means is "his" kind of Democrat.

emal, I think all the blogs have their favorite candidate. At least from what I can see.

Wah! The media is being unfair to my candidate!

The media stinks. It has stunk for decades. Get used to it. Clinton certainly has her shills as well. Campaigning 101 includes manipulating the media. Clinton does it; Obama does it better. He has created a positive narrative for himself and his campaign.

You complain that Obama's website has a section for fans of Olbermann - doesn't Clinton's site have the same thing? If not, your complaint should be directed at her campaign.

Regarding the mission of Markos Moulitsas, it is clear he wants to elect more Democrats with a spine who are responsive to the Democratic base. Failing that, he wants to at least elect more Democrats. He has actually spoken well of Clinton and at times harshly of Obama.

iamcoyote: What "assumption" did I make without evidence?

That I don't see a problem taking on KO. I said nothing of the sort. I just agreed with T2 that if a commentator supports a candidate, he's a god, if not, he sucks, and I provided another example.

The fact that you need to go back 10 years to find evidence of Hillary challenging the media is a tacit admission that she has not been attacking on this score.

Now you're moving the goalposts. You said:

It's like they woke up from a slumber and decided, "hey, this media situation isn't that great" now that it directly affects Hillary's candidacy?

It sounds to me like you're accusing her of having a sudden realization of media bias against her stemming directly from her decision to run for president. I provided an example that shows she's been concerned about it for many years. You then changed the parameters to "bbbut what has she done for me lately???" Seems to me, you're flailing about with baseless accusations while accusing others of doing the same thing. I have to wonder, "who's the unhinged one around here?"

new Time poll shows Obama crushing McOld, while Clinton is even with McOld. When is that Clinton matchup going to turn around? I keep asking, if we get to the Convention tied, and Obama is still beating McOld and Clinton not....well, I guess all the pollsters will be scumbag sexists, right eri?

You just can't leave that alone, eh?

Everyone hates the 'sexist if you don't like Hillary' schtick but people keep digging it back up.

snark, if you're referring to my post...I was just quoting eriposte's comment on Tweety.
I see where Bill has called his campaign remarks a couple weeks ago a mistake. That's the good thing about Bill, he'll admit a mistake. Unlike his wife.

I guess what rubs me the wrong way about the criticism of dKos and Markos is that it is so obvious what his agenda is. Elect, support, and defend "Fighting Democrats", or, as Pol Junkie said, Democrats "with a spine."

It isn't rocket science. If you want to be well-regarded at dKos, go fight some Republicans. If you aren't well-regarded at dKos, its largely because you aren't fighting Republicans. The solution is to go fight some Republicans.

It is true that Obama is not a great fighter of Republicans. Which is why Edwards, until his campaign failed, was the favored candidate at dKos. But at least Obama doesn't have a long history of not fighting Republicans. (And by fighting, I don't mean taking their abuse and "surviving". The rope-a-dope strategy employed by the Clintons is not respected by the netroots.)

Contrary to the CW at this site, there are numberous Obama skeptics at dKos and he has been raked over the coals there for his Krugman-bashing, the McClurkin episode, and his NV Reagan-pandering. dKos is no repository of blind-Obama love.

In the interest of fairness, which left Margaret some time ago, I made another donation to Obama. I'll continue to do so every time I see a link to Hillary's contribution form in a story on this blog.

I see the Hillary Hive is all abuzz today. I'll sing their little anthem to calm them down:

Hillary, Hillary über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Fraunen zusammenhält,
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt -
Hillary, Hillary über alles,
Über alles in der Welt.

You clowns are after Olbermann? This is just too rich. Get your silly asses in line. So is the ADL for Keith putting on an O'Reilly mask and giving the Nazi salute.

You guys really are getting pathetic. You shouldn't lose in the primarys...you deserve to lose in the primarys for your inane rantings alone. You can't run on the candidate so you run on the perceived insults and slights to the candidate. The pity vote.

The only real insult from Olbermann is that he examines Clinton and her record and calls her what she is: A corporate shill. He's the only person who mentioned this little fact from the last debate. Hillary is a shill for corporations. She says so. He points it out. The truth really hurts you folks. Go figure? And the more you rant and rave the more you sound just like the irrational Bushites you so resemble.

Well, it's foolish of Obama to battle Krugman. They best get some "liason" staffer assigned to that pronto.

There are some Heroes of The Left out there, and for me Krugman is sure as hell one of them.

There are primaries and caucuses this weekend, right? Why no talk about them?

SOS & CA Pol Junkie,

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I know that Markos and many sites already have their preferred candidates. I have no problem with that. I just wish that he would use his bully pulpit and foster a more positive forum in a more responsible manner. I think it is even worse than the 2004 primary for some reason. I rarely see Markos defend Hillary when it's appropriate to do so (so he criticized Tweety's Hillary bashing-that was a safe no brainer because everyone on the left criticizes Tweety!). But I rarely see him reminding his readers about being civil (saw Meteor Blades did that today-yay!). I rarely see him reminding Obama supporters to grow up when they may be threatening to sit out the general election if Obama doesn't win-rarely reminds them what the consequences of that action would be.

I guess what I'm saying is that his relative silence when it comes to Hillary bashing/ Obama deification amongst his commenters and diarist is perceived by myself as a greenlight of said behavior and commentary that often runs into the realm of CDS at times....that's all.

And whether he wants or likes it or not, he's in a stronger and more visible/important position to foster a more respectable tone during the primary season than most people are...I wish he would take on that responsibility for the good of the party as a whole and use it a bit more wisely...that's all.

And you know what everyone should be condemning the type of commentary made that eriposte hilighted here no matter who your candidate is...and I'd hope Obama would too. Obama supporters should be disgusted by this type of talk instead of attacking the messenger who brought this to people's attention.

MSNBC has always been negative on the Clintons. I think it's because of the anti-trust campaign against Microsoft during Bill's administration.

Wolfson has just declared war on Shuster and
MSNBC for their campaigns benefit. Using Hillary and her daughter Chelsea to create a sympathy from Hillarys base of older women is pathetic.
Forget that Shuster is a champion of Progressives, forget that KO speaks truth to power, this is the Bill & Hill show and don't you people forget that.
They are trying to intimidate KO its sickening. I just sent Obama my Third check this month.
Does the Clinton Campaign spend any time on Progressive issues?????

corporate shill?..how is it that every media outlet out there and their talking heads..now olberman..are constantly in one way or another stabbing at hillary...almost every one...why is that?..who's kidding who here ?

the media..would have had you belive that you didn't even need to vote because of the obama surge..msnbc=olberman..tweety..zogby..they are all one..and not all the sarcastic specious bullshit in the world can change that..so fuck olberman..if he's gone the way of tweety

How will Hillary and Bill Clinton unite the country when they can't unite with their fellow democrats. "Your either with us or against us" sounds familar doesn't it?
Now they declare Jihadd with MSNBC and Keith and David Shuster.

...so fuck olberman..if he's gone the way of tweety...

Olbermann's great outrage to the Hillary Hive is predicated on one simple word: Truth. You cannot state the truth and examine it without being completely against all things Billary. Hell, you can't even state her lies without being against all things Billary. Or maybe she can just lie to Kieth, which makes Olbermann against all things Billary.

Oh shit! I've done it now! The Hillary Hive won't know what to think. Here ya go. This will get their minds back on the same page. They do so need their little thought minders.

i don't believe that vote is on the top of peoples minds..as much as msnbc would have you think..the senate was deceived..and olberman has gone the way of tweety..and the real shills are the media..and those who defend them..so fuck em..and calling her billary ..speaks volumes

And you know what everyone should be condemning the type of commentary made that eriposte hilighted here no matter who your candidate is...

Yes, the rhetoric has gone to far.

I wish he would take on that responsibility for the good of the party as a whole...

I wish every blogger's post was that way. It's a pipe dream...

obama has gotten a free fucking ride..big time...they're just waiting..and a whole lot of people are getting fooled

SOS, but but isn't Obama all about dreams and can do attitude..

Lastly, I still have yet to read anyone here who supports Obama actually condemn Shuster's commentary...and yes that is very sad...people are talking about everything but the elephant in the room at this point....sigh.

Wow, I can't believe you so-called "progressives" seriously don't give a fuck that someone reporting the "news" just implicitly called Hillary a pimp and by extention, Chelsea a WHORE.

Soooo........... it would be ok if Shuster had instead accused OBAMA of "pimping out" his own girls? yeah, somehow I don't think so.

This race is really revealing to me a LOT of ugly things about the Democratic party and "progresive" community. Basically, that the dignity of women is worth ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the vast of y'all.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't say I'm not hurt.

...and calling her billary...

Sure does.

...obama has gotten a free fucking ride...

Like his church?

Lastly, I still have yet to read anyone here who supports Obama actually condemn Shuster's commentary

Obamacans are so uppity!

uppity..heh...that's not really what I had in mind phid..not at all...more along the lines of.... rhymes with something like..hypocritical pigs...;-P.

I wouldn't exactly say Obama has gotten a free ride...the fact that he is an Islamic terrorist infiltrator hoping to take over our government was revealed. I'd hardly call that a free ride.

Phid, now you're throwing Nazi songs at fellow Democrats. Wow, has the atmosphere changed. There's that word again...CHANGE. The narrative has changed. Our party is uniting around McOld, your party now is throwing the race, gender, and now the Nazi card at each other. This race has become divisive, but only unto progressives. Now it's "a mine is bigger than yours or better if you will."

The Big Dog and George are good friends. Obama's building a cult. And pro progressive media are being slandered all the time as being in George's back pocket. This train wreck is going to end in a stalemate with neither having a clear majority. We used to refer to America as a 50 50 nation. Now we have a 50 50 Democratic Party. The people's wishes for whom they want to lead them will not determine who the next candidate for president will be. That will be left for some smoke filled back room where some deals will get made. There just isn't enough delegates left for one to win the nomination unless the other drops out. To quote the father, "not going to happen."

Happy Chinese NY folks! Is this truly the year of the Rat?

Shuster has been suspended from all broadcast at NBC and it's affiliates. I received this email response from Steve Capus President of NBC News.

NBC NEWS STATEMENT REGARDING CHELSEA CLINTON COMMENT:

On Thursday's "Tucker" on MSNBC, David Shuster, who was serving as guest-host of the program, made a comment about Chelsea Clinton and the Clinton campaign that was irresponsible and inappropriate. Shuster, who apologized this morning on MSNBC and will again this evening, has been suspended from appearing on all NBC News broadcasts, other than to make his apology. He has also extended an apology to the Clinton family. NBC News takes these matters seriously, and offers our sincere regrets to the Clintons for the remarks.

Steve Capus

NBC News President

Phid, now you're throwing Nazi songs at fellow Democrats

I'm not a democrat.

Is this truly the year of the Rat?

What have you got against rats, cheese eater?

rhymes with something like..hypocritical pigs...;-P.

Ouch!! I prefer uppity.

Everyone should be pleased around here. Shuster, one of the few voices for progressive issues, has been fired. So you guys get the last laugh. Congratulations. The Clinton's can go on using their daughter as a political prop with impunity.

Happy Chinese NY folks! Is this truly the year of the Rat?

It is indeed.

John McCain, born 1936. Year of the Rat.
Hillary Clinton born 1947. Year of the Pig.
Barack Obama born 1961. Year of the Ox.

One of the Chinese stories about the craetion of the Chinese Zodiac Calandar is that Buddha invited all the animals to compete in a race for a place on the calandar. The final leg of the race involved crossing the Yangze River. The rat, using his brains rode across the river on the back of the brawny ox, and when they reached the otherside the rat jumped off and crossed the finish line first earning the coveted first position on the calandar. The ox followed the rat across the line to finish second followed by a succession of other animals. The pig, who stopped to eat and take a rest in the middle of the race, finished 12th taking the last spot.

So the story goes.

How come Clinton's foreign policy advisors supported and continue to support the invasion of Iraq?

Bob, it's time to answer your question. I've contacted the Clinton staff and posed this very question. The response I got was

The pig, who stopped to eat and take a rest in the middle of the race, finished 12th taking the last spot.

Jesus tits! Now the Obamacans are calling Hillary a pig! You bastards!

The amazing thing is that the Clintons have NOT declared war on MSNBC or NBC - they seem to be fine with it.

/Bill declared war on FOX, but what do you expect? EVERYBODY should declare war on FOX! :D

Wait. If we disagree with Keith Olberman, we have to turn in our Progressive cards now?

Give me a break. I like a lot of what Olberman says, but he's no god. You are doing to him what you are doing to Obama (and acting a LOT like the Ron Paul people) - let's not deify these people. The nice thing about progressives is that we don't act like the "ditto-heads" and "sheeple" that are the far right.

They decided to go after NBC today:

Hillary Campaign Goes to War

here is the url:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_campaign_goes_to_war_w.php

to deny a pattern of obvious anti clinton bashing and the theme that has developed there is folly..obama's church? not sure how to take that.. always good to be a member of some church if you're a politician..even if it has the feel of a cult..sort of like his rallies...anyone one here a member? obama is a lightweight propped by media propaganda ..don't doubt he is a good man..but at this point in his career..a lightweight...keep sending him money ..might get him the vp spot

somebody here please explain to me..like i'm a 2 year old..why a person with senator obama's experience should or could be president..he lost a bid for the house..and he beat alan keyes in a senate race...he thinks there have been enough debates??..what kool aid are you people drinking?

Lastly, I still have yet to read anyone here who supports Obama actually condemn Shuster's commentary...

I condemn David Shuster's commentary!

snark, I was born in the year of the Cock... what does that say about me?

This race is really revealing to me a LOT of ugly things about the Democratic party and "progresive" community. Basically, that the dignity of women is worth ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the vast of y'all.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't say I'm not hurt.

Amen to that.

I honestly can't believe some of the comments here. You don't have to support HRC to recognize that the misogynist bashing is a reality. You can criticize her without resorting to this kind of garbage.

I've had it. I thought I'd gotten beyond this kind of anger but not so much.

As for the Chinese zodiac comments, I could unload with a really long lecture, but the Pig (or Boar if you prefer) is considered:

"Intellectually curious, honest and tolerant, those born in the Year of the Pig can be relied upon for their loyalty and often make true friends for life.

Like the knights of old, Pigs are often highly regarded for their chilvary and pureness of heart, and will often sacrifice their own well-being for the greater good."

tell ya something else i've noticed about barack..it's hard for him to laugh....jfk ..one of his favorite sayings was that there were only 3 things in life that were real..god..laughter..and human folly..

It would seem at MSNBC and far too many elsewhere the old standard "bros before hos" is alive and well. I left a lengthy comment in Eriposte's last thread from Monday dealing with the rampant sexism/misogyny running throughout the MSM and the silence of the Obama campaign to call it out while simultaneously being on the hair trigger for anything that could possibly be seen as racist. For me intolerance is intolerance and an equally bad thing no matter who it is aimed at, be they black, gay, female, purple with pink polka dots, etc. For anyone that dares call themselves a "progressive" or a "liberal" that is unable to recognize this and be equally offended by its presence regardless of the target clearly is not one at heart. The reaction I have seen in this thread to Shuster's comments, the defences of KO and Shuster because they were good on other important issues for liberals/progressives is sickening, it is arguing that since they were good on some things then they deserve a pass on sexism, since who cares about that especially when it is aimed at Hillary Clinton.

If anything is going to cost Obama his candidacy it is going to be this sexism run rampant and his failure to call it out for what it is. If instead of going along with the sexist crusade against HRC he had called out the obvious examples of it he would have proven that his "new politics" is real AND he would have impressed many women and likely getting more of the female vote than he has been since they unlike AA's are not voting in massive one-sided percentages for the candidate that looks like them.

I used to think gay bashing was the most socially acceptable intolerance in America, now I know it is not, it is sexism. That so many cannot see it (or worse see it but don't care because of the target or because it helps their guy get the nomination) despite how blatant and broad spectrum it has been shows the truth of this. I also love how I keep reading about how every time the Clinton campaign dares to call someone out for their sexism/misogyny they get told that they are whining, being crybabies, etc. That is what women get told repeatedly when they point to intolerance against them and it is to my mind (and too many others too) further sexism. It is right up there with telling a raped woman that she was asking for it somehow and therefore it is her fault and not that of the attacker. Me, I will always blame the one committing the assault for responsibility and not the target, would that the many clearly comfortable with bashing HRC here could do the same. You all are letting your personal feelings about the Clintons (either or both) override the principle that one does not blame the victim for being attacked, especially unfairly attacked, regardless of who it is.

Obama may have cost his campaign with his willingness to let the sexist/misogynistic attacks on HRC go unchallenged, and if as I think he has also ridden that wave by adding fuel to that fire (the latest being his claws comment, if he had said the knives come out or the gloves come off he would have been fine, but referring to HRC's campaign as having their claws out is clearly playing to the stereotype regarding females fighting equals catfights, and Obama is too good a wordsmith to be making accidental sexist word choices) registers with many women voters he will lose if not the nomination then the GE.

This idea that Obama will get all of HRC's supporters after all of this is highly dubious, there will be women who will not support someone they see having become the candidate of their party by trashing women while claiming to be beyond the old nasty negative politics of the past. Which when one considers that the women's vote is the single largest and most important to the demographic base of the Democratic Party is incredibly shortsighted/stupid. If Obama truly was what he claimed he was he would have proven it with the calling out of the MSM sexism and not by feeding more into the MSM instead. One can be quite critical and negative about HRC without having to pander/use negative female stereotypes as the format of that criticism, and that is what is clearly really pissing off a lot of American women. I really think the so called progressive/liberal males had better start understanding this, because if anything is going to help the GOP bounce back from the disaster Bushco has made of their party it will be if the female vote is driven away from the party because it won't stand up for women when it counts. After all, if the Dems won't stand up for the sexist bashings of their top/most prominent female politician why then should those women voters believe those same people will stick up for them legislatively?

The degree of stupidity if not actual bigotry from these self described progressives/liberals is the single greatest threat to the ability of the Dems to win in the fall, and that instead of seeing this they are fine with it because it's aimed at HRC who they don't like is only going to make that just that much worse. I expect of course I am going to be ignored, called a HillShill for this because of course someone can't be this offended at the rampant sexism unless one is in the bag for HRC. Which of course only further underscores just how blind such people are when making such comments, because I see a lot of women being angered by this and not just "HillShills". Maybe instead of being more concerned for the reputation of media figures someone thinks are important try being committed to those liberal/progressive principles of equality and anti-bigotry instead and apply them equally to all people, maybe then finally this sort of sexism will finally start being exposed and treated the same as being racist is in America these days.

T2,

You said:

if the commentators support your candidate, they are insightful and progressive. If they don't, they suck and are scumbags. Again, I fail to see the "news" in this, after all, there is an entire network that specializes in hack attacks. I agree that in a perfect world (Hillary's, apparently) all the Media would be non-partisan and fair and balanced. It's far from a perfect world. far. far.

I am willing to engage in a debate on criticisms that are based on what I wrote. Unlike your completely wrong claim, I have no problem when anyone in any media outlet or blog criticizes any Democrat (including Hillary Clinton) using facts and on the merits. I am not labeling Matthews a scumbag because he doesn't support Clinton. He is labeled as such because he has long been a scumbag and he still is. He has a history of lying, of misogyny and sexism - in fact he even had to apologize on air for it recently. Hillary Clinton is the last person in the world expecting a perfect world and nor am I. However, I do find it fascinating that some progressives are more interested in being apologists for an 'imperfect world' of fraudulent media than finding ways to fight it. I've spent a considerable portion of my blogging life shining a spotlight on the corrupt media. And I will continue to do so as long as I am blogging.

Space,

You said:

But, for God's sake, I can't blame KO for backing Obama. He knows what he is getting from Hillary: nothing, save a promise to be a more effective chief executive than Bush has been.

So, instead of pouting like a petulant child when those who have the best track records in the blogosphere and msm for documenting and criticism the Bush-Cheney atrocities don't support Hillary, why not try, you know, winning them over.

Did I say I blame KO for supporting Obama? Why are you making up arguments I never made and then criticizing them? I blame KO for pretending to be an objective newscaster when he is not. If KO wants to support Obama, he has every right to, just as Fox News always had the right to support Bush. The criticism that progressives have had against Fox News is that Fox is a propaganda network that supported Bush but pretended to be objective and "fair and balanced". KO and his pals have fallen into the same territory vis-a-vis Obama and there is nothing wrong in calling that out. Incidentally, this post is about MSNBC, not Obama. Obama is incidental to the post and I can't for the life of me figure out why you keep bringing up a comparison of Clinton and Obama on a post that is focused on MSNBC and their alleged objectivity as a news organization. Finally, I do find the absence of your criticism of Shuster for his repulsive comments interesting but I'll try not to read anything into that. Moreover, people who have great track records are not immune to criticism when they act like the repulsive creatures on the Right.

Then you said:

At that time, it may finally dawn on the unhinged crew here at the left coaster that Fox News, Hillary's new BFF, may not have her best interests at heart. And that the dKos community, no matter the scorn the Team Hillary now heaps on them, will, once again, come to the defense of an unappreciative and dismissive Democratic leader.

You seriously think Fox News is Hillary's new BFF? Makes me question your judgment even more. Fox News absolutely hates her - and just because they might have been slightly better in their coverage of Clinton than MSNBC doesn't in any way mean they are going to treat her with kid gloves. I don't know where you come up with this kind of nonsense, but none of the writers on this blog believe that Fox News will somehow be nice to HRC. Moreover, HRC was the one who went to Yearly Kos last year despite knowing that she was going to meet a hostile crowd. She was the one who sent Howard Wolfson to defend Daily Kos against Bill O'Reilly last year. DailyKos returned the favor with almost non-stop Hillary bashing. Despite that, Team Hillary is not heaping any "scorn" on them. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own "facts". (P.S. DailyKos will likely support Hillary in the GE if she is the nominee but I don't particularly care if they do or not. They have a right to support whomever they want.)

George Tafelski,

You said:

It is imperative that progressives do not at this critical point start to attack Keith Olbermann who may or not be progressive but who sure as hell speaks truth to power night after night

[...]

For God's sake this election is just too important for this kind of bullshit from bloggers like "eriposte"

Yes, it is so important that you had not a word condemning the sexism and misogyny from MSNBC. That is revealing to me as to what your *real* belief system is.

Space,

You said:

And, yes, iamcoyote, I have largely forgotten Hillary's VRWC rhetoric. Maybe because she made the comment 10 years ago and then proceeded to backpeddle away from it as fast as she could once the Kool Kids started mocking her.

The fact that you need to go back 10 years to find evidence of Hillary challenging the media is a tacit admission that she has not been attacking on this score.

This looks like your favorite day of commentary since you keep getting one thing after another wrong. She hasn't forgotten anything. She never backpedaled from it. She has always pointed out the need to fight the Republican machine. The press corpse is one of the main reasons the Clintons set up a war room and took an extremely aggressive view of the press - instant response and criticisms against people in the press who misrepresented their positions or lied about them - which pissed the press corpse off no end and increased their hatred for the Clintons. This is also one of the reasons why HRC supported entities like Media Matters and came to the defense of blogs like Daily Kos. Which planet have you been living on?

The vitriolic responses from Obama supporters is rather sad. People are so intent on blindly explaining why Obama is superior that they miss the topic altogether. This isn't about Hillary, Bill or Barack, it's about CHELSEA. I saw the FULL BROADCAST last night and was thoroughly disgusted as a woman and as a mother, and to defend his comments or say 'forget it he apologized' minimizes WHAT HE DID. He didn't apologize because he wanted to, he apologized because he was FORCED to. His apology is part of his suspension. Given the backlash against the misogynistic behavior of Chis Mathhews, I, for one, am happy that MSNBC acted quickly with this one. The fact that Shuster felt that his comments were ok, demostrates what little respect most in the media have for ANYONE in the Clinton family. Additionally, I seriously doubt he would have made the same statements if Chelsea were a young man, instead of a young woman.

Phidipides,

I found it predictable you expressed no outrage over what Shuster said - completely consistent with your past comments in recent weeks.

I am gratified that you said this:

Olbermann's great outrage to the Hillary Hive is predicated on one simple word: Truth.

The video you linked to "Truth" is a great example of Keith Olbermann being wrong and people like you drinking his kool-aid. I've already discussed the Levin amendment in a previous post showing why Hillary was in fact correct in her claim. Just because you label KO's *opinion* the truth doesn't make it so. And if you're selling the 'Obama was anti-war because of his 2002 speech', I think there are used shoe salemen that I would trust more than these kinds of kool-aid drinkers. HRC did not have a progressive record on the Iraq war prior to 2007 (and I've compared her voting record and Edwards' and Obama's previously) but to pretend that Obama somehow has a strong anti-war record (just because of one speech) is a sign of how much kool-aid some people on the left are willing to drink to compete with their counterparts on the right.

I am also glad you said this:

The only real insult from Olbermann is that he examines Clinton and her record and calls her what she is: A corporate shill. He's the only person who mentioned this little fact from the last debate. Hillary is a shill for corporations.

This is the canard I've written about multiple times. If she's a shill, then so is Obama. Which explains why you can't stop yourself from repeatedly contributing to his campaign and simultaneously rewriting Weimar/Nazi songs - you're the Lord of Principles after all, unlike me.

Emal, thanks for your thoughtful post. I agree.

This site has turned into the very thing you all are ranting and accusing the Obama people of. TLC has changed, and not for the better.

"snark, I was born in the year of the Cock... what does that say about me?"

You have no conscious. ;-)

You have no conscious. ;-)

I... ahhh... meant... The Year of the Rooster!

Seven of Six, I'm laughing.

David Shuster apologized on Tucker Carlson.

Then this by Keith Olberman halfway thru another apology: "David has been suspended. It remains only for me to apologize without limit to President Clinton, to Senator Clinton, and to Ms. Clinton on behalf of MSNBC. We are literally, dreadfully sorry."

So, are we talking a job offer on the horizon from Fox here?

SOS, thanks for condemning the Shuster comments.

Eriposte....people are coming here more and more..to read one of the smartest people on the internet..you..thanks for directing people to Hillary's website. Unless we can channel this fury into dollars for Hillary...we will not be able to fight back. The system is being rigged against us...and the wimpy Democrats mimic their brethren in the Congress...this is a set up and the only way for the people to have their voices heard is by contributing to HIllary and giving her the resources she needs to organize, advertise and generally get her message out. This is a hit job.
We often think of Republicans as a mafia...but certain Democrats have been either fooled or co opted.

You have enormous credibility...and courage...keep upping the ante...and staying on offense. And even at the risk of sounding sophomoric, I'll say it...your public adores you.

So, are we talking a job offer on the horizon from Fox here?

Actually TIKI, I think Shuster left FAUX for MSNBC.

Perhaps he can get on with CBS, and that cutie, Katie? Oops... damn, I keep falling into those traps!

Misogyny, sexism and hate! I forgot, that's what this Presidential election is about!

This is the most important election in the history of America. Our survival as a Nation depends on it. Maybe we need to address the "social" issue of misogyny and sexism at another time.

I have nothing against Hillary, Bill or Chelsea, and the comments by Shuster were horrible, but to play devil's advocate, maybe the children need to stay out of the limelight. Especially in this day and age of of cutthroat politics. She's out in the open, helping to try and get the youth vote for her Mom. Doesn't anyone think before hand? Didn't they think that someone from the press might attack her?

I know I'd want to protect my child from the media.

What benefit is it to have occasionally good reporters such as Shuster, if they help to elect Republicans in the long run? There is no doubt that Keith Olberman and David Shuster have distorted the news where it concerns Hillary. And they have done it for financial if not for more subversive reasons. What we do know is that their high minded "principles" are not employed equally. Paul Krugman is an example of a consistent and intellectually honest man. Shuster and Olbermann are poseurs. And poseurs help elect Republicans, either purposefully or by accident. And intellectual dishonesty is never OK.

More at - Docudharma.

The Crucifixion Of David Shuster
by: News Corpse

Chelsea is hardly a child - would you have Michelle Obama stay out of the limelight? Bill Clinton? Geez, Chelsea is probably as old as that trophy wife of John McCain! ;D

Maybe we need to address the "social" issue of misogyny and sexism at another time.

Shoot me now.

Wow.

otherlisa,

My comment about the Chinese calandar was posted because of the story of the race the animals were engaged in. All three contenders in this "race" were born under those symbols and I found it an odd coincidence that the rat, ox and pig fit into the story as they do. Rest assured, I do not hope that McCain uses Obama as a vehicle to win the race and I certainly do not make any association of Hillary Clinton with pigs (regardless of their qualities in Chinese lore). In fact, as I've stated here many times I believe she will make the best president of the three.

Hasn't Obama voted to fund the war at every opportunity?

It's easy when you aren't in the Congress to say "I'm against the war" - hell, the Chicago City Council voted to impeach George W Bush!

It's another thing when you are in Congress and have more to lose. That's why both Clinton and Obama have voted to continue to support the war. If the war goes badly, they can say "It's Bush's war!" IF the war starts to go well, they can say "I supported it!" I hate it, but they are BOTH doing it. Face the facts.

Sorry, Snark, I'm new here. But I have a background in China studies, so there you go.

Lets make sure we talk about misandry and misanthropy! Lets talk about it all, racism as well! Any other issues related to the Presidency?

Wait I know... how about Obama-ism or Hillary-ism?
Republican-ism?

And Shuster "is hardly a child", so he should know better.

And Shuster trying to make it up to the Clintons to avoid the suspension by reporting the following was REALLY stupid:

In his drug years on Chicago's south side, Obama pimped for Michelle to support his habit, and he has picked Condoleeza Rice for his running mate so McCain can't have her.

T2 You believe polls? Wasn't Rudy the frontrunner before he was taken down by the media? His connection with Bernie Kerik (Obama with Rezko)was exposed when Kerik was indicted and then the mistress gets police rides incident was going for several news cycles...and then...poof...Rudy was gone..his electability a mere memory...And wasn't that known Hillary Hater Dick Morris telling us that only Rudy could beat Hillary? Now he's telling us Obama is the strong candidate. There has been absolutely NO negative coverage of Obama. None. So these numbers mean absolutely nothing. After the nomination, watch the press go after Obama and see how long it takes to bring Saint Obama's numbers down down down....Anyone who buys this hype is seriously prone to brain washing...and propaganda...Really now...is this not obvious to supposedly educated people? Is common sense so 90s?

The polls were wrong the night before elections...why would you trust them now? More importantly...isn't it convenient that Hillary is supposedly less electable now just before some crucial caucuses and primaries? Anyone who believes this poll propaganda hasn't been paying attention. This has all been choreographed.

Meanwhile, in big, diverse states, Hillary wins despite the polls. Gee..wonder what that means?

There has been absolutely NO negative coverage of Obama. None.

You mean in MSM right?
Cause... I was gonna say you haven't been reading my favorite blog lately.

It doesn't look good for Hillary when she employs Mark Penn, whose company Blackwater hired. I'm sure the Baghdad Blood Money story will just go away in a few days. What are Iraqi dead kids worth these days? $100,000... no Balckwater doesn't want to pay that much, only $20,000 - $80,000!

Did anyone see Bill Maher tonight? All men....laughing it up...three conservatives, Bob Costas and Bill...all agreeing on Obama...I was so angry...last week was all men too..Bill Maher really has a problem with women...he was so comfortable with no women there. And this is a show that most people would define as progressive. It was pretty revealing. I guess Bill Moyers is the only intellectually honest journalist left.

We really need to assess a serious problem that is going to sink the Democratic party and elect another Republican.

Eriposte: how about a post on psych ops...how to go about brainwashing a population...

Seven of six

Do you really want to play that game? Ply your propaganda trade elsewhere...but before you go...explain to everyone the relationship between Obama's campaign manager, David Axelrod and Exelon? For starters.

Eriposte has resorted to linking to donation sites for Hillary Clinton?

Honestly, there went any remaining expectation of objectivity and impartiality. Perhaps Eriposte has succumbed to the same 'cult of personality' for which he/she (constantly) criticizes Obama's supporters. It must be something about her personality Eriposte likes since there is practically no difference between the two candidates on policy.

Eriposte should face the fact that Americans are going to have a hard time viewing Hillary Clinton as a 'victim'. That's because she's always been a strong woman with an impressive track record; its just too bad that she isn't remotely Liberal.

somebody here please explain to me..like i'm a 2 year old..why a person with senator obama's experience should or could be president

This is why.

've already discussed the Levin amendment in a previous post...

And you have yet to read the Levin amendment. That is why I'm comfortable calling you on it.

...in a previous post...

Linking to your own erroneous analysis is not proof and does not make your claim fact. Read the Levin amendment.

...you're the Lord of Principles after all, unlike me.

Indeed, I am not. You are simply unprincipled when it comes to supporting your candidate through your mock outrage and sensationalist prose. You have become the thing so detested about Fox. You write to incite your readers. Easy enough to do and it gets a response.

There is no doubt that Keith Olberman and David Shuster have distorted the news where it concerns Hillary.

There is much doubt. Regardless, they should have their 1st Amendment rights limited. Too bad they deal in facts.

And to you silly assclowns who expect me to apologize for Shuster, I won't do it. It is up to Shuster if he wishes to apologize or not. You intolerant gender-baiting fuckwads do not have the right to ask that of me.

somebody here please explain to me..like i'm a 2 year old..why a person with senator obama's experience should or could be president

Well, I can "explain" why his opponent shouldn't be president.

Tampa Student, Isn't there an election tomorrow? Think of the free face time she got on TV today.

Ply your propaganda trade elsewhere...

Excuse me? At least I provided a link!
Deny to me that Mark Penn's company doesn't have Blackwater as a client? Or that his companies... do you really want me to go there?

Since you started coming here... two months ago... you only post on eRiposte threads on Hillary.

"Think of the free face time she got on TV today."

I purposefully avoid corporate generated news programs whenever possible. But taking a rare glimpse at Talk Left just now, I notice that this crap has indeed been regurgitated all day long.

The media will do anything to get Hillary elected -- or at least get her the Democratic nomination. That in and of itself should tell you everything you need to know about both her and the media -- even MSNBC.

there is not much diffence in hillary clintons and barack obama's voting record on the war..what is very different...is that in contrasting the two eriposte uses actual voting records and facts..while most of others use editorials of their choosing.....the quoting of media sources is hardly a way to state ones case...

All votes are not created equal and do not deserve the equal weighting Eriposte usually implies.

If you accept that the range of discourse that is 'acceptable' or 'quantifiable' is that which lies between Republican-led legislation and Hillary's voting record in the Senate, then you have summarily dismissed pretty much any liberal perspective on pretty much any subject.

...the quoting of media sources is hardly a way to state ones case...

You want digital records of her exact comments go to YouTube. They're public record. It's the glory of modern media.

All votes are not created equal and do not deserve the equal weighting Eriposte usually implies.

Well said.

Someone wrote: Phid, now you're throwing Nazi songs at fellow Democrats
to which Phid replied: I'm not a democrat.

And there, Ladies and Gentlemen, is all we need to know about how the Liberial Left marginalized it's greatest strength by alienating a majority of Democrats who do not feel as wingnuts do that Clinton is the devil.

Checkmate Kos, Marshall, et al. You've been Roved. How'd it feel, did you, at least, get a reach around?

Thanks for the push eriposte!

I just sent $100.00 to OBAMA

obamaites

if obama is the nominee he gets my voe..if clinton is the nominee does she get yours?

Speaking for myself (of course) Hillary will get my vote IF she wins the nomination. We're not there yet.

What the Dems don't need is a phyrric victory!

I was taking exception to the Clintons making hay out of this situation. Schuster was very wrong; he made a mistake. Bottom line, she will debate at NBC.

This is politics and the Clintons are masters. Chelsea can take care of herself. Neither of them (should) need Bill to "defend" them.

if obama is the nominee he gets my voe..if clinton is the nominee does she get yours?

Damn straight dennis.

So, Hillary's a nazi for finally doing something everyone on the left has been begging the dems to do for 7 years: fight back at the media. And no one sees the irony. Fuckin' hilarious!

It's great entertainment to watch Democrats eat their own.