The cheerleader has arrived. We'll have five months to enjoy and get behind our candidate for the future. Democrats, on the other hand, won't find out until the convention who to get behind. The people's choice will not be the candidate. Just some back room deal maker without any transparency. How offended the masses will be by half. The establishment candidate or the media darling, which one will get picked. The cult builder or the third term candidate, which one gets picked. It's like SCOTUS's selection in 2000, as y'all would like to put it. The people's vote won't matter.
Democrats to lose, they're doing a cracker jack job to do it. Besides, it's the Year of the Rat.
Posted by peter at February 9, 2008 04:26 AMHere Peter, sell this to the American people:
Senator John McCain presents himself as a maverick and a critic of the Iraq war. But a close read of his record indicates that his position on the Iraq war has consistently matched President George W. Bush's.
BEFORE THE WAR:
McCain used many of the same arguments as Donald Rumsfeld, Vice President Cheney and President Bush when advocating going to war with Iraq.
McCain co-sponsored the Use of Force Authorization that gave President George W. Bush the green light—and a blank check—for going to war with Iraq. [SJ Res 46, 10/3/02]
McCain argued Saddam was "a threat of the first order." Senator McCain said that a policy of containing Iraq to blunt its weapons of mass destruction program is "unsustainable, ineffective, unworkable and dangerous." McCain: "I believe Iraq is a threat of the first order, and only a change of regime will make Iraq a state that does not threaten us and others, and where liberated people assume the rights and responsibilities of freedom." [Speech to the Center for Strategic & International Studies, 2/13/03]
McCain echoed Bush and Cheney's rationale for going to war. McCain: "It's going to send the message throughout the Middle East that democracy can take hold in the Middle East." [Fox, Hannity & Colmes, 2/21/03]
McCain echoed Bush and Cheney's talking points that the U.S. would only be in Iraq for a short time. McCain: "It's clear that the end is very much in sight. ... It won't be long...it'll be a fairly short period of time." [ABC, 4/9/03]
McCain said winning the war would be "easy." "I know that as successful as I believe we will be, and I believe that the success will be fairly easy, we will still lose some American young men or women." [CNN, 9/24/02]
DURING THE WAR:
Senator McCain praised Donald Rumsfeld as late as May 12, 2004, after the Abu Ghraib scandal.
Asked if Donald Rumsfeld can continue to be an effective secretary of defense, McCain: "Yes, today I do and I believe he's done a fine job. He's an honorable man." [Hannity and Colmes, 5/12/04]
Senator McCain repeatedly supported President Bush on the Iraq War—voting with him in the Senate, defending his actions and publicly praising his leadership.
McCain maintains the war was a good idea.
At the 2004 Republican National Convention, McCain, focusing on the war in Iraq, said that while weapons of mass destruction were not found, Saddam once had them and "he would have acquired them again." McCain said the mission in Iraq "gave hope to people long oppressed" and it was "necessary, achievable and noble."
Senator McCain: "The war, the invasion was not a mistake. [Meet the Press, 1/6/08]
Asked if the war was a good idea worth the price in blood and treasure, McCain: "It was worth getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He had used weapons of mass destruction, and it's clear that he was hell-bent on acquiring them." [Republican Debate, 1/24/08]
McCain defended Bush's rationale for war. Asked if he thought the president exaggerated the case for war, McCain said, "I don't think so." [Fox News, 7/31/03]
McCain has been President Bush's most ardent Senate supporter on Iraq. According to Michael Shank of the Foreign Policy in Focus think tank, McCain was at times Bush's "most solid support in the Senate" on Iraq. [Foreign Policy in Focus, 1/15/08]
McCain voted against holding Bush accountable for his actions in the war. McCain opposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the development and use of intelligence leading up to the war in Iraq. [S. Amdt. 1275 to H.R. 2658, Vote # 284, 7/16/03]
McCain praised Bush's leadership on the war. McCain: "I think the president has led with great clarity and I think he's done a great job leading the country..." [MSNBC, Hardball, 4/23/03]
Senator McCain has constantly moved the goal posts of progress for the war—repeatedly saying it would be over soon.
January 2003: "But the point is that, one, we will win this conflict. We will win it easily." [MSNBC, 1/22/03]
March 2003: "I believe that this conflict is still going to be relatively short." [NBC, Meet the Press, 3/30/03]
June 2004: "The terrorists know that this is a very critical time." [CNN, 6/23/04]
December 2005: "Overall, I think a year from now, we will have a fair amount of progress [in Iraq] if we stay the course." [The Hill, 12/8/05]
November 2006: "We're either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months." [NBC, Meet the Press, 11/12/06]
Senator McCain opposed efforts to end the overextension of the military that is having a devastating impact on our troops.
McCain voted against requiring mandatory minimum downtime between tours of duty for troops serving in Iraq. [S. Amdt.. 2909 to S Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 341, 9/19/07; S Amdt. 2012 to S Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote #241, 7/11/07]
McCain was one of only 13 senators to vote against adding $430 million for inpatient and outpatient care for veterans. [S Amdt. 3642 to HR 4939, Vote 98, 4/26/06]
Senator McCain has consistently opposed any plan to withdraw troops from Iraq.
Senator McCain repeatedly voted against a timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq.
Senator McCain has consistently demonized Americans who want to find a responsible way to remove troops from Iraq so that we can take the fight to al Qaeda.
McCain: "I believe to set a date for withdrawal is to set a date for surrender." [Charlotte Observer, 9/16/07]
McCain called proponents of a congressional resolution opposing the troop surge in Iraq intellectually dishonest. [Associated Press. 2/4/07]
THE FUTURE:
Senator McCain now says he sees no end to the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq.
McCain: "[M]ake it a hundred" years in Iraq and "that would be fine with me." [Derry, New Hampshire Town Hall meeting, 1/3/08]
McCain on how long troops may remain in Iraq: "A thousand years. A million years. Ten million years. It depends on the arrangement we have with the Iraqi government." [Associated Press, 1/04/08]
Seven of Six, for a guy who spent five years as a prisoner of war, and knows the anguish and horror of war, why would he vote against $430 million for inpatient and outpatient care for veterans?
Posted by Judith at February 9, 2008 04:56 AMHappy rats to you Peter. I must say I admire a man who can gamely get up each morning and dribble drivel onto his keyboard, unencumbered by the thought process, with so very little reason to continue struggling against this unrewarding and belief challenging, mortal coil.
Cheer up though! You won't have to wait long to get your beliefs assigned. Fairly soon, the back room boys will be deciding YOUR future Dear Leader with all the transparency of coal.
Will the selected VP be Condi "Who could Imagine" Rice? A black AND a woman, all in one well shod, if underachieving package! Perhaps it will be Righteous Mike "Gods Word to You" Hucklebee, to shore up the lunatic fringe? Or perhaps Gonzo Gonzales. I understand he's not doing anything until he can be nominated to the Supreme Court. Maybe he can capture the Hispanic vote!
My vote, not that such things count in your fetid, fevered world, would be the ever huggable and eminently kissable, Independent Democrat Joe "Date Rape" Lieberman. Now THAT would be an unstoppable duo! A hundred years of war combined with slavish devotion to Israel. I smell a landslide! (Ours)
I'm sure that even "Tables" Pelosi and Harry "K-Y" Reid would have to throw support to their good friends in the spirit of bi-partisanship and comity. Mike Bloomberg, eat your heart out!
Posted by DeminNEwJ at February 9, 2008 05:05 AMJudith, all those McCain quotes--hearing them in his voice in my head--seriously made me think Obama could be him on the tenor of his voice alone. McCain's high-pitched airy voice is not something I want to listen to for the next 4 years.
I heard some pundits throwing out possible running mates--Crist of FL, a Scalia (Scalia's son?--this from Charles Krauthammer), Kay Baily Hutchison. Mark Shields said he'll need a woman or Latino--you can't have two grumpy old white men on the ticket.
I'd love to try to go see both Obama and Clinton while they're campaigning here in the DC area, but I can't find where/when they'll be anywhere. Guess I'll check Sunday and Monday.
Posted by CG at February 9, 2008 06:36 AMI just wanted to point out -- following all the false cries of "Hillary won! Hillary won!" in the wake of Super Duper Tuesday -- that at this moment Obama has the lead in the delegate count from Tuesday's contests. Ninety-one delegates more to be awarded from it, but Hillary clearly took a licking. She needed to blow Obama's campaign up on Tuesday, which I thought she would, but instead she is stuck in a race in which her strongest cards -- California, the East Coast (specifically New York and New Jersey) -- have been played. The U.S.S. Hillary Clinton is taking on water, fast, while the U.S.S. Obama is about to sail past her.
Posted by Brian Bell at February 9, 2008 07:20 AMTheir websites have been updated and I'm thinking of going to see each candidate--Clinton Sunday and Obama Monday. Trying to convince the kids to go with me--and the husband for that matter.
Posted by CG at February 9, 2008 07:23 AMHey NJ, maybe he'll chose HC after she's taken out by Chair Dean for VP. Her chances as a Democrat will have been stopped for all time. McOld will need someone who could take over should he have a health problem. What better way to stilt the Obama cult's drive to the WH. George and the Big Dog are like step brothers right now. Makes plenty of sense, they respect each other well now, remember that "civil" comment.
Outragous, sure, but McOld has been out there before. How about that type of uniting our country.
Posted by peter at February 9, 2008 07:39 AMSeven of Six, for a guy who spent five years as a prisoner of war, and knows the anguish and horror of war, why would he vote against $430 million for inpatient and outpatient care for veterans?
McOld responds in his Peter Lorre voice, "Because, by God, if I can handle 5 years at the "Hanoi Hilton" these little pukes can certainly survive a few tours of Iraq! I don't need Veterans Administration care, why should anyone else!"
It's pretty simple Judith, McOld comes from privilege, married well and the cost of the Veterans package was too expensive for his conservative ideals.
And before anyone goes apeshit, yes, he served honorably and it must have sucked being a POW.
But I'll be damned if anyone should vote for McOld, bu$h says: McCain will best carry out my agenda!
As a united Democratic Party, let's hammer this message home repeatedly!
Posted by Seven of Six at February 9, 2008 07:42 AMThe McCain we have now is not the McCain of 2000. He is chronologically and mentally very much older. I do not think he has the energy to be President. Look at the toll the job has taken on the disengaged, physically fit, much younger man in the WH now.
Posted by bob h at February 9, 2008 07:58 AMYhe M$M will portray McCain as the straight talking maverick he likes to be seen as. But there are some things that they can't control. Namely, the pictures of McCain hugging Bush on that stage are going to be priceless this year. They really will be worth more than a thousand words.
Posted by herbal tee at February 9, 2008 08:15 AMI LOVE that photo, particularly the way McCancer's (oh, that was mean -- lol) eyes are closed and his face is buried into Dubya's shoulder as his hand slides around Dubya's waist. And Bush's gesture above him, "Look upon me, I am Johnny's Personal Jesus." My two dogs show me less submission than McCain shows Dubya in that photo.
Posted by Brian Bell at February 9, 2008 08:29 AMI know I'm taking a risk of being accused of somehow trying to garner sympathy for Hillary by bringing up an issue concerning women:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The images in the Basra police file are nauseating: Page after page of women killed in brutal fashion -- some strangled to death, their faces disfigured; others beheaded. All bear signs of torture.The women are killed, police say, because they failed to wear a headscarf or because they ignored other "rules" that secretive fundamentalist groups want to enforce.
"Fear, fear is always there," says 30-year-old Safana, an artist and university professor. "We don't know who to be afraid of. Maybe it's a friend or a student you teach. There is no break, no security. I don't know who to be afraid of."
Her fear is justified. Iraq's second-largest city, Basra, is a stronghold of conservative Shia groups. As many as 133 women were killed in Basra last year -- 79 for violation of "Islamic teachings" and 47 for so-called honor killings, according to IRIN, the news branch of the U.N.'s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
Yeah, yeah, it's their fault for going outside while sporting a vagina, but think of the children! I'm sure some of the ones forced to watch their mothers tortured and killed were male...
Posted by iamcoyote at February 9, 2008 08:31 AMAt least under Saddam they knew who to be afraid of and they didn't have to wear a headscarf. Not saying Saddam was good or anything. I'm just not sure which kind of bad is worse.
Posted by CG at February 9, 2008 08:37 AMDidn't the British say this region was ready for the locals to take control? PM Brown get any critism for leaving too early?
Posted by peter at February 9, 2008 08:41 AMI'm just not sure which kind of bad is worse.
Well, of course, the rape rooms run by the US are better! We're doing it in the name of Democracy, rather than under a dictatorship. It makes all the difference in the world when the finger shoved into an eye socket is purple-stained, dontcha know.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 9, 2008 08:51 AMJudith,
How did that whole "cut and run" position work for you folks in the last Connecticut Senate elections?
Brian Bell,
"The U.S.S. Hillary Clinton is taking on water, fast, while the U.S.S. Obama is about to sail past her."
And catch a torpedo in the stern.
Seven of Six,
"As a united Democratic Party...."
Any unity you can discern is false.
bob h,
"He is chronologically and mentally very much older. I do not think he has the energy to be President."
I agree with you. McCain will be a one-term President. That is why the VP selection is so important.
Brian Bell,
"My two dogs show me less submission..."
Given the tone of your post: what you do behind closed doors is your own business, but I think that animal abuse is reprehensible.
CG,
"Not saying Saddam was good or anything."
Well, gee, thaks for clarifying that.
Posted by Bagley at February 9, 2008 08:52 AMi hope that the enormity of the lies and vitriol that will be aimed at obama should he get the nomination is well understood....he doesn't even want to debate the realities of things with hillary..the clintons were investigated for years at a cost of 70 million dollars..scrutinized like nobody ever was..every facet of their lives turned insde out..what they got was bill lying about a blow job..they turned al gore..i think one of the most able men available.. a lifetime of public service...they turned him into a liar..john kerry..a genuine war hero..turned him into a traitor and a coward..and made george bush..a deserter..into a hero....i hope you have some idea whats coming...his lack of experience..at the very least he will be characterized as a crack snorting pimp who chased white women around when he was younger..i know thats not true..but it doesn't matter..he's running on judgement..doesn't fit in with rezko..and he did gain by it..i hope you understand whats coming...my wife was walking on a dog path today with a women friend we have known for a while...she is familiar with new mexico..and my wife asked how she thought clinton was doing out there..she responded that there was that issue of hillary having people murdered..my wife was stunned..thats the kind of thing that will be dealt with...john mccains main issue will be national security..terrorism..rightly or wrongly obama will defend 1000 times being against the war..the fact that he may have been right...does not matter
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 09:00 AMBagley, LOL! You think McManchurian (ohhh, getting real mean now) is going to beat Obama or even Hillary? LOL! Not when photos of him like this are laying around. Jesus, can you imagine having a bootlicker like that as your president? ROTFLMAO! Bush fucks him, FUCKS him, in South Carolina, and within 4 years McCain is grasping at Dubya's belly like a kitten going for its mama kitty's teats. LOL! Suggested McCain slogan: McCain for president -- who needs strength when you can grovel?
Posted by Brian Bell at February 9, 2008 09:05 AMHello all! I started a peition two days ago demanding that the Florida and Michigan delegates be seated at the 2008 Democratic National Convention. Please take the time to sign it and pass it on!
The Black Sheep Delegation must be heard!
Thanks!
Posted by Piper at February 9, 2008 09:06 AMHere's the link for the petition to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/seatourdelegates/index.html
Posted by Piper at February 9, 2008 09:09 AMbrian bell...
she mean she those little cards like winning florida..california..new york ..new jersy.massachusetts..michigan....those lttle cards???????????????..and she will win ohio and pennsylvania..those little cards...some goofy people out there
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 09:12 AMAny unity you can discern is false.
That's the one thing the republi-con party has done... united Idependents and Democrats against the eternal money pit in Iraq.
Posted by Seven of Six at February 9, 2008 09:14 AMwar and recession...good luck john
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 09:20 AMBrian Bell,
Exactly what qualities does Obama bring to the general election? He is a sample of Obama's platform as recorded in a future debate with McCain:
Moderator: Senator Obama, what is your position on Hamas?
Obama: Change, we need change.
Moderator: Senator Obama, having admitted to past drug use, what is your position on the war on drugs?
Obama: Change is what we need.
Moderator: Senator Obama, having never served in the military, what in your past experience proves your ready as Commander-In-Chief?
Obama: Change.
Moderator: Senator Obama, what experience would you bring to the Presidency in matters associated with the economy?
Obama: I can you make change for a dollar.
Moderator: Senator Obama, you have very little experience on the national stage, how do you think the voters look at this?
Obama: More change is what we need.
Moderator: Thank you, Senator.
Obama: Change.
As for Hillary....
Moderator: Senator Clinton, What makes you qualified to be President of the United States?
Hillary: I was First Lady.
Moderator: Senator Clinton, having never served in the military, what in your past experience proves your ready as Commander-In-Chief?
Hillary: I know that people in the military wear uniforms.
Moderator: Senator Clinton, what is your greatest strength?
Hillary: I remain my husband's doormat, and I am still going strong after all these years.
Moderator: Senator Clinton, what experience would you bring to the Presidency in matters associated with the economy?
Hillary: I have promised to give everybody free money and a pony.
Moderator: Thank you, Senator.
Hillary: (Tears well up in her eyes.)
Posted by Bagley at February 9, 2008 09:30 AMsenator mccain ..what qualifies you to be commander in chief....well i was shot down spent many years as a prisoner of war..got to my breaking point...many people think i am still crazy..but i'm not
what about homsexuality...well i have taken it up the ass many times from the president..and actually got to..like it..so i certanly can feel their pain
what about finance..well you know i was part of the keating five during deregulation...we were very big during the banking collapse..something i am very proud of
that's enough for now senator thank you so much
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 10:12 AMdennis,
Weak, dennis, very weak.
And what do you have against punctuation and capitalization?
Posted by Bagley at February 9, 2008 10:14 AMwhat do do have against anything rational or sane
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 10:18 AMquestion mark after sane
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 10:19 AMMcOld has a couple reasons for wanting to remain in the Iraq quagmire forever. First, he is well aware that Bushco invaded Iraq to liberate its oil from Saddam---he's been on board with that strategic program from the start, helping to sell it through his lies, and knows what those enduring bases are for. Oil, man.
Second, he feels deeply scarred by the US military's loss in Vietnam, and will keep troops in Iraq until doomsday so that NO ONE can say the US "lost" in Iraq, by gum!
These conservative white males spend a lot of time worrying about their personal humiliations and imagining national humiliations---and their foreign "policy" turns on such childish, emotion-based crap.
When the MSM gets done with them this Fall, most BushAmericans will be back to thinking that the Iraq occupation should be permanent as well. Most can't think clearly and will conclude "In for $100 billion, in for $4 trillion".
Posted by euzoius at February 9, 2008 11:05 AM"Second, he feels deeply scarred by the US military's loss in Vietnam, and will keep troops in Iraq until doomsday so that NO ONE can say the US "lost" in Iraq, by gum!"
euzoius, thank you. This sentence sums up very nicely what I have posted before: Leftists want the US to lose in Iraq the way the US lost in Vietnam.
Posted by Bagley at February 9, 2008 11:31 AMRE: Dennis and his comments "quoting" McOld in a debate:
"...what about homsexuality...well i have taken it up the ass many times from the president..and actually got to..like it..so i certanly can feel their pain..."
ROTFLMAO! That was funny!
Bagley, suck it! The Republicans party is about to reap what it has sewn. Your team is going down.
Also, Dennis, about Hillary's cards? Your first set -- NY, NJ, MA -- have all been played, and they're practically tied. The two weird ones -- MI, FL? Assuming those get in, they're not all going to Hillary, far from it. MI & FL won't affect the tie. Worse for Hillary, still, MI is talking about running a caucus this Spring, so the barely made-it victory for Hill will become a win for Obama if they run that contest over. PA and OH? Ohio will NOT go to Hillary. Obama's basically a Midwesterner. He just hasn't campaigned there. Once he starts, Hillary won't win. PA? Even if Hillary takes PA, she's down by that point due to the rest of the states. Clintonites can deny the truth all they want. I just hope all you Clintonites are prepared to vote for Obama in the general election.
Posted by Brian Bell at February 9, 2008 11:35 AM"Your team is going down."
Keep thinking that.
And, by-the-way, Brian Bell, you and Dennis seem to have some sort of homophobia thing going.
Closeted?
Posted by bagley at February 9, 2008 11:58 AMNice misreading, bags, but no matter.
The war against Saddam's military was "won", the occupation was lost. McCain just refuses to accept reality---just like you. You're behind the permanent occupation for the oil, too, right?
What anyone (left or right) might "want" at this stage of the game is irrelevant.
Posted by euzoius at February 9, 2008 12:11 PM"What anyone (left or right) might "want" at this stage of the game is irrelevant."
True.
The course has been set and we must "stay the course."
P.S. "...the occupation was lost." Leftists used to refer to US troops in Vietnam an occupation.
Posted by Bagley at February 9, 2008 12:22 PMyou know bagley..now that you mention it..you sound kinda cute
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 01:49 PMbrian bell..that is one great picture..more then a 1000 word in tht one
Posted by dennis at February 9, 2008 02:00 PMiamcoyote said on a previous thread:
"So, Hillary's (bad) for finally doing something everyone on the left has been begging the dems to do for 7 years: fight back at the media. And no one sees the irony. F'n hilarious!"*
*potty mouth edited above
The timing is suspect and she should've "fought back" against the media when they were fanning the flames for war in 2002-3.
Posted by Tampa Student at February 9, 2008 02:29 PMagain bag boy comes thru..just can't resist showing what a criminal party asslicker is like can you?
Posted by headxray at February 9, 2008 02:36 PMdennis,
"you know bagley..now that you mention it..you sound kinda cute"
Well, thanks. I am happily married, though.
Regards,
Bagley
headxray,
"...criminal party asslicker..."
This is what I like about you: you are so cerebral.
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Bagley at February 9, 2008 02:43 PMnot bag boy I just speak to you on your level...in the gutter with the rest of the criminals and asswipe apologist's....
Posted by headxray at February 9, 2008 06:13 PMWhy is Bagley showing off tonight? His republican bad boys are doomed.
Posted by Copeland at February 9, 2008 07:51 PMbagless Bagley: Leftists want the US to lose in Iraq the way the US lost in Vietnam.
are you posting from Iraq? No? then STFU
Amazing how your great "heros" Bush and Cheney did everything they could to avoid military service in Vietnam.
poor pants pissing peter, I can see the bumper sticker now: More Bush? Vote McCain!
Posted by gay veteran at February 10, 2008 11:52 AM