I don't have to read the thing to figure out the answer. I just look at the byline and I know the answer right away:
Hillary Clinton.
Posted by bob at February 9, 2008 11:50 AMBob,
Considering that I've never claimed that Clinton is anti-war (and have stated that I disagreed with her Oct 2002 vote), I just love comments like yours. These are the kinds of comments that make my case for the Clinton Derangement Syndrome in segments of the internets. "I don't have to read the thing....". Yes, you don't have to at all. That was the attitude of the True Believers on the conservative side who kept Bush afloat for many years.
Posted by eriposte at February 9, 2008 12:02 PMeRiposte,
Another very thoughtful and detailed argument. I think that this type of discourse is instructive and helpful without being unecessarily provocative. You have done some great work on Left Coaster!
A pro pos of the posts of the past 2 days, I guess we all have the ability to get a little 'hot' while advocating for a candidate in what has turned into a remarkable primary season (for us political junkies). As I said in a previous comment, we don't need a phyrric victory no matter who is nominated.
I think the majority of us on the left would ultimately support either Clinton or Obama.
I came late to support Obama. In him, I see someone (perhaps as Repubs may view McCain) who might be able to achieve rapport, work relatively constructively across the aisle when necessary, and who has his own measure of internal consistency.
Something is happening out there, and as the polls indicate, its not anti-Hillary per se...its just different and IMO hopeful. I think that voters are sincerly interested in moving forward and solving problems by consensus not by recrimination or character assassination as witnessed over the past 15 years.
I find Obama's unwillingness to spout off like a policy wonk as refreshing. It is naive or unrealistic for candidates of any stripe to lecture about highly specifc proposals (e.g 'final health care model, abolishing the IRS, precise timetable for Iraq withdrawal); when they have to know that, without rapport and a consensual synthesis, nothing of value will come out of the legislative process (sound familiar).
It has been an oversight for the Obabma folks not to 'balance' the discourse on Left Coaster. As an avid reader of a few blogs, these dilemmas and struggles are being played out elsewhere (e.g. TPM, Oliver Willis, Kevin Drum, Andrew Sullivan, etc.). Its painful but instructive.
This is our year!!!!
Posted by tfitznc at February 9, 2008 12:05 PMTfitnc,
I have said this before on more than one occasion - I will support the eventual nominee whether it is Clinton or Obama. I respect your right to support Obama in the primary - as I do the rights of all Obama supporters - and I have said repeatedly that I am not asking anyone to vote for Clinton. Everyone should make their own decisions - and they will. What I do intend to do, as long as the primary continues, is provide information and facts that are generally receiving limited or poor coverage in the traditional media - especially on Sen. Obama's true record and statements.
Both Obama and Clinton are largely similar. I am supporting Clinton over Obama in the primary for a number of reasons - and one of those reasons is that I believe Obama's unity shtick is overdone and even if it has the effect of bringing more voters to his fold in the short term, his rhetoric and positions will risk compromising the progressive movement in the long term. I will try to expand on that in a future post (I've already written about it to some extent in previous posts).
Posted by eriposte at February 9, 2008 12:38 PMYou probably should have scanned it for pronouns. When it says [he] I hints ain't Hillary making the statement regardless of who the pronoun is related to.
Other than that, I can accept your pandering for Hillary because you do such a very nice job of linking to the entire transcript of these snippets.
I support her because she’s refreshingly thoughtful, and I’m bloodied from eight years of a jolly “uniter” with ejaculatory politics.
Although this was not a concern of mine until very recently, I don't think I can tolerate 8 years of everything being placed under the microscope of gender from the democrats side. Obama can come out as McOlds love child for all I care. I simply will never vote for Clinton. You have yourself to thank for that, eriposte. Sorry to say, it was you who convinced me I don't want the hell of the gender microscope when there are so many other issues to deal with.
Posted by phidipides at February 9, 2008 12:43 PMPhidipides,
I'm not sure who you are quoting in italics - certainly wasn't me who said that - but you certainly have the right to vote for Obama, not vote for Hillary or do just about anything you want.
Posted by eriposte at February 9, 2008 12:49 PMI actually read each quote, then super-imposed the Greek alphabet (which I find to be less confusing), and after thoughtful deliberation came up with Hillary.
McCain is on CNN right now threatening to "get Bin Laden" if he has to "follow him to the gates of hell".
At his age I would be careful what I wished for.
Posted by TIKI AL at February 9, 2008 12:52 PMI wouldn't trust anything Clinton said. I remember how many of Bill Clinton's 1992 promises he broke. Bill Clinton was the reason why the Green Party grew so much, and Hillary Clinton would be a boon to the Greens.
Posted by libhomo at February 9, 2008 01:12 PMTIKI AL,
To save you the trouble, I have the answers at the bottom of the post :-)
Posted by eriposte at February 9, 2008 01:31 PMphid,
An intelligent, snarky, and independent freethinking person like yourself, actually blaming eriposte for your potential upcoming voting behaviors?
You. have. got. to. be. kidding. me. I'm dumbfounded and suprised.
You really expect someone like me, who has often admired your commentary here to believe that? All I can say is eriposte you are one talented person if you can convince phid to behave a certain way.
Also, I don't mean to be snarky here, but I ask in sincerity does that also mean that if eriposte starts writing about race and pointing out how this angle plays out in the political process and in the msm should Obama win the nomination, that you could potentially not vote for him because you (to use your own words just changed gender to race) ..."don't want the hell of the (gender)/race microscope when there are so many other issues to deal with." Because I certainly could see the msm doing that too just because he's the Democratic nominee/preznit unfortunately.
Again, like eriposte said you can do what you want with your vote...even vote Huckabee if it moves you.....spiritually.. speaking of course.
Posted by emal at February 9, 2008 02:18 PM"Considering that I've never claimed that Clinton is anti-war (and have stated that I disagreed with her Oct 2002 vote),
That's the whole problem Eriposte, you say you disagreed with her 2002 vote, but you apparently aren't offended enough by the consequences of that vote that you believe it is forgivable.
Hillary and Al Gore were the two most influential Democrats in 2002 and 2003. One spoke out against the post-9/11 madness and one helped create and perpetuate it. Although Al Gore had been DLC in the 1990's, I would find him a palatable candidate today based on his advocacy since losing the 2000 election. Hillary has never been a forceful and HIGHLY VISIBLE advocate for Liberal causes at any point during the Bush years.
Posted by Tampa Student at February 9, 2008 02:37 PM"the hell of the gender microscope?" Wow, if you think its hell learning to look at the world the way 50 percent of it does, try *living* in the world the way fifty percent of it does and then bitch about having to just think about stuff. What a pathetic whiner you are, phid. Vote, don't vote, wet your pants, whine...who cares? Your foot stomping about eriposte and clinton "forcing" you to vote in some way you've already made up your mind to vote is just bizarre. Are you trying to argue that your single vote, based on the most tendentous and childish reasoning, should force the rest of us to follow you and vote a certain way? Its the blog equivalent of threatening to hold your breath till you turn blue. I'll say what women always say to children who threaten that--go right ahead. Sorry if that was too "gendered" for ya.
aimai
Posted by aimai at February 9, 2008 03:06 PMemal, please do not be too hard on our dear, dear phiddy.
He is currently the victim of a home invasion perpetrated by scout, who has him duct taped to his computer chair and is channeling thru him.
Be brave, dear phiddy, Hillary help is on the way, despite the scout-commandeered posts.
Posted by TIKI AL at February 9, 2008 03:07 PMThanks eRiposte. I'm glad you take it upon yourself to educate people. After all, education is the lifeblood of a healthy democracy.
That's why Television sound bytes are killing America's democracy; if you take out nuance, you lose sight of the details, and we all know what lies there. It's not a black and white election (no pun intended). Your posts provide the necessary details to be informed.
Of course, just because you lead the hordes to water, doesn't mean you can make them stop drinking the koolaid. :-P
Posted by blogtopus at February 9, 2008 03:09 PMAs a followup, here's this: Would you trust a used-car salesman enough to NOT read the fine print when you sign the contract? If not, why would you trust a politician?
"Trust me" should never be a campaign slogan, no matter who says it.
Posted by blogtopus at February 9, 2008 03:13 PMTiki Al, that was Hillary-ous I mean hilarious... scout kidnapping him and commandeering the keyboard....oh jeebus..what a vision....where's the object of scout's scornful obsession that jezebel iamcoyote when you need her. Seriously that scout dude was one scary person, I often wondered if it was terribly weird and pathological parody...but don't think it was.
Posted by emal at February 9, 2008 03:23 PMeriposte - this is fantastic. Thanks for not letting the bastards get you down!
TIKI, you may be right - all p-dip's missing is a Bolshevic Jezebel rant, and you couldn't tell 'em apart! Someone call an exorcist, stat!
emal, I think you're right about scout. He was banned last May and is still trying to post here. Major damage, that one. He's deleted quickly, but the last time he tried was last week, and guess what? He called me a cunt. Course he still thinks I'm Steve Soto, too, so I didn't take it personally. His (and p-dip's) ravings are the least of my worries these days...
Posted by iamcoyote at February 9, 2008 04:46 PM