Good job. I have a long standing peeve with my fellow liberals/progressives/democrats. It really bugs me when they fawn over people who can only be called erstwhile allies, at best.
Frank Rich is a great example. Bill Maher is another.
Posted by Voodoo Chile at February 12, 2008 02:02 AMUh...he's a theatre critic.
Posted by gtash at February 12, 2008 06:06 AMAgree with everything you said, but would still like a point by point rebuttal to the "Hispanic" allegations in the article. (the rest of the article is just bile and nonsense) Who was the New Yorker pollster, was he working for HRC, is his hypothesis backed up as Rodriguez says, or not, etc? Thanks.
Posted by desert dawg at February 12, 2008 06:44 AMDesert Dawg,
The pollster was working for HRC but was talking about his view of how Hispanics have voted in the past. But, you can tell how Frank Rich operates by how he claimed Clinton responded to what the pollster said. When she was asked by Tim Russert if the pollster was reflecting the campaign's position, she said "No, he was making a historical statement...."...and Frank Rich deleted the "No" part of Clinton's statement.
Posted by eriposte at February 12, 2008 07:23 AMFrank Rich is a limousine liberal douchebag.
And Hillary is still an unelectable hack, whether he likes her or not.
Posted by RAM at February 12, 2008 08:21 AM
Leave no lib'rul columnist un-debunked!
Posted by euzoius at February 12, 2008 09:36 AMyeah, rich does come across as a commenter who believes he really knows what is going on in politics - but doesn't know shit from shinola.
where was it said, of incompetent people, that one of the ways they are incompetent is in not realizing their own incompetence.
you know who what other nitwitimes reporter's work reeks of
"it is i who am the brightest of all"
"it is i who truly understand contemporary democratic politics" ?
that would be the young philospher matt bai.
where does the times find these folk?
or is it that the times has become the kind of organization to which they are attracted?
Posted by orionATL at February 12, 2008 10:16 AMOK! I have had just about enough of this DNC lite web site and I think you all have finally jumped the shark. This has been little more than a sub site for the Clinton for president web site for awhile but now you are starting to look stupid.
You all know Frank Rich has been dead on right about this sorry excuse of an administration and the Iraq war since bush came in to office and the war selling started. One of the only things that kept me sane during the last 7 years is reading Rich and knowing I wasn't going crazy and yes, this administration is truly nuts.
He was angry that few in the democratic party had the courage to scream about this war and this sorry excuse for an administration.
God knows your saint Clinton didn't have the guts to stand up against this war. The most important decision any politician ever makes, life and death , war and peace, and she totally blew it. She blew it with probably more inside knowledge than anyone and she did it for political reasons. At least the republicans that voted for the war actually trusted this idiot president.
The problem with this site, the Clinton team, and the DNC is you act like a bunch of beaten puppies. "oh please vote for me republicans, I'm really like you, I'm not a progressive, I'm really middle of the road". Give me a fu##ing break. You folks better get with the game plan and soon. Here are a few predictions and comments to ponder...
1. Obama is going to beat Clinton for the nomination and will be running as the democrat against John Mccain. If the old guard leaders don't get on board they will be left behind at the station and we will still win but you will have no further influence in the party. You will be kind of like Rove and Delay just with better taste.
2. You can't find middle ground with the right wing republican machine. They have moved the ball so far to the right the middle ground is now Goldwater. If the DNC doesn't soon figure this out they too will cease to matter.
3. You want to know where the Democratic party is moving to? Read Frank Rich. You can nit pick his writing all you want but you know something?
He was right. Right about the war, right about this group of criminals running the country and above all, right to be angry with the powers in the Dem. party because they were too scared of the voters to stand up and do what is right.
The first thought a "leader" should have is not what will get me reelected but what is best for my country. I am sorry to say it but The Clintons, The DNC ers , and yes too many people on this site think that way and it makes me so sad. Liberals have got to stop being afraid of being called liberal. But does that mean we won't get the votes of born again Christians and the right wing?
I've got news for you, they hate you and will never vote for you anyway.
Now stop beating up on someone (Rich) that agrees with you and get ready to dig deep into your pockets and go to war against the real threat to this country and our way of life. George Bush and the people that think like him.
Eric in Austin
Posted by Ericl at February 12, 2008 11:07 AMI'm not so sure what bothers me more. Is it that fact that Obama supporters act so pompous and arrogant as if Hillary supporters are just so stupid and haven't thought things through, or is it that they actually believe when they do come in here and offer their political view and definitive analysis of things in the manner in which they do, that they're going to change people's minds. The smug arrogance and cocky certainty in which they treat others with different political opinions just turns me off!
Yup, and why is it that they can certainly dish it out but can't handle it.
They tell you they are all about unity and attracting other and that they come here to see what the "opposition" is thinking and saying. Yet when they comment they're constantly telling everyone who disagrees with them to stop talking and writing because they've had enough of it! If that type of behavior doesn't qualify as the cult of personality then I don't know what does.
Posted by emal at February 12, 2008 01:45 PMemal, now you know why I've been so nasty to them. I didn't even start out being for Hillary, and I would have voted Edwards if I could have. But watching the leftosphere turn into freepers made me madder and madder until I snapped. Now I'm on nobody's side because nobody's on my side, as Treebeard says. We are on our own out here, and I tell ya, I'm thinking of getting some guns, and barbed wire for my property, 'cos things is gonna get ugly!
Posted by iamcoyote at February 12, 2008 02:16 PMCoyote, don't get me wrong I've seen the type we have here today, run rampant over at dkos and there are several still there. It's just cult groupthink all wrapped into one...they are acting just like the freepers. I've seen the comments here, I've seen what happens to people and the comments directed at anyone who writes anything remotely negative against Obama or positive for Hillary, including longtime friends of progressive causes such as Krugman. Believe me. It scares the bejeebus out of me too that I fear the left blogosphere is really no better than the right in that regard...because I've always thought that we were smarter and better than that and always, always willing to be hard when it was necessary. How many times have people here criticized the spineless dems like Reid with their honesty. ...but for some reason that can't be done with Obama.
But despite what I've seen, it is wrong to paint with a broad brush...there are several Obama supporters here that I don't think have fallen into that pattern and despite our differences of opinions don't act like.
Posted by emal at February 12, 2008 02:51 PMemal, you are right, of course. I think a lot of the nastier ones have come here because they would have been troll-rated at dKos or ridiculed out of existence at other blogs. When I need a place to go that's calm and fun, I usually end up at Shakesville, or Sideshow, or Whiskey Fire, though there's not lots of commenters. And for pure, silly fun without any Obama/Hillary talk, Sadly No is the place to go. I've been there a lot lately... Today, though, I just needed to vent. And it pisses me off to see eriposte trashed; I gotta fight back for my home base, if nothing else.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 12, 2008 03:21 PMcoyote, of course you gotta fight back and I'm all for you doing so...you easily got Eric here to take your bait in the other thread and exposed him for either being a repub hack troll or exposed him for being hugely hypocritical and a petulant cultish Obama supporter he claims he's not and accuses others here who disagree with him of being. It was hysterical. Touche!
Meantime as I write this I'm torturing myself listening to Mrs. Greenspan (it's not something I usually do but the tv's on in the room I'm in and the kids haven't come in to change it off the local newscast I was watching). Clip showing John Glenn, showing lovely Chelsea in Wisconsin, all this leading to that Hillary's hoping Obama's momentum won't carry him away into Ohio and Wisconsin. All in all not as nasty and condescending as she typically is toward Hillary. Oop now Tim's talking....what the magnitude of the victory will be..that's what is important (mentions both hoping to get broad positive margin of victories). Broadening the coalition, Obama needs to get more women and poorer voters, Hillary need to get younger voters...(then Huck and McCain stuff I've tuned out...will there be a Huck surprise?) Segment over.
Man, emal, you're braver than I am, that's for sure. I can't listen to tv news, 'cos no matter who's talking, I end up yelling "that's a lie!" every other sentence. As for Eric, the poor thing was too easy, wasn't he? And to end with a racism charge, sheesh. That may work on Dems, but I'll guarantee, it'll be the opposite for 'pukes - they'll dig right in just like they did with the whole PC thing, and turned it into a joke. And I don't jump on all Obama people, just the ones who make assumptions based on my defense of Clinton or eriposte. I erased a lot more comments I wrote than I posted, too! I gotta stop listening to Stephanie Miller in the mornings on the way to work - I blame her for today's fury, because she kept saying over and over that Hillary demanded Shuster be fired, and she just plain didn't. She finally said what all of us have been saying for years - a single suspension isn't enough, it's the pattern of abuse that's got to be addressed. Man, I just want this thing over so we can trash McCain.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 12, 2008 05:37 PM