I read that and saw it in real time play out on the tubz...how frikkin sad. Maybe Hillary Clinton (or Barack Obama) will get them some new cool "dictator spy toolz" to use when they become president....;-P
Ok in all seriousness this is just abysmal...Harry Reid needs to go! I understand from the the expert Glenn Greenwald the only remote chance of things getting muddled a bit is some of the house subcommittee chairmen are outraged and there is a difference between the two versions of the bills passed...so we shall see but no breath holding whatsoever.
Posted by emal at February 12, 2008 10:14 AMAmen on Reid. Good Lord.
Posted by doosh at February 12, 2008 10:20 AMemal,
i would love to see the candidates asked what they intend to do about the "unitary executive," and about the criminality of the bush administration. i won't hold my breath...
Posted by Turkana at February 12, 2008 10:25 AMi would love to see the candidates asked what they intend to do about the "unitary executive," and about the criminality of the bush administration. i won't hold my breath...
A good way to find out is see who they would ask to be part of their cabinet. Like Attorney General for starters.
But like you said Turkana, "I won't hold my breath..."
Intetnionally passing "immunity" simply to shield the lawbreaking executive from being revealed and held accountable by the federal courts. Shameful.
This is a dark day, and I would argue the end of the rule of law in BushAmerica---and under a Dem Congress! Gutting one of the Dem Parties most cherished laws, FISA.
I think I am losing my interest in the upcoming election. This is an historic capitulation. Remarkable. Disgusting beyond words, the cowardice and simple refusal to lead and defend the actual principles of the nation, its founding and its constitution.
We are deeply degenerate as a nation and people and beyond reforming, that can be clearly seen now.
Posted by euzoius at February 12, 2008 10:41 AMThis is sickening. Osama bin Laden has won and they don't even see it. If OBL is still alive, I am sure he is very pleased. He took down more than the WTC.
Posted by themomcat at February 12, 2008 10:51 AMI just voted and ended up voting for Clinton. I just thought about how impressed I am by her--in the debates, in interviews, etc. To me, Obama has a great potential upside, but it may never materialize. I thought about his stump speech line "I don't want to just end the Iraq war. I want to change the way we thing about war." Well after a year of campaigning, he got everyone talking about change, he got people hoping for better, he did change the way people think about politics and how it could be different. So why hasn't he changed the way we think about war and what does he even mean by that? Why, in a year of giving speeches, hasn't he inspired us to think differently of war? I'm very skeptical of his ability to really be transformational. So I went with the person I thought would be a great president, rather than the person who might be something really great and transformational, but probably wouldn't be.
So then I come home to find out that Hillary didn't even show up to vote on FISA when MD, VA and DC are voting today, so how hard would it be for her to stay in the area and drop in on her job? I know it wouldn't have made a difference, but it does make me wonder which way she'd go and I'm disappointed that she didn't show up.
Interesting that Claire McCaskill and Jim Webb voted for immunity. I thought they were pretty decent.
Posted by CG at February 12, 2008 10:53 AMSo then I come home to find out that Hillary didn't even show up to vote on FISA when MD, VA and DC are voting today, so how hard would it be for her to stay in the area and drop in on her job? I know it wouldn't have made a difference, but it does make me wonder which way she'd go and I'm disappointed that she didn't show up.
She didn't go to Washington to vote on the amendments to the bill. Ya think, just maybe, she got on the phone with Reid and asked him if he was gonna need her vote to pass something that was gonna be close? Reid sent out a statement this morning that said it didn't look like any of the amendments were going to pass. Ya think he had a pretty good idea of whether any of them were even close at that point? Ya think maybe Clinton was clued into that? These people do communicate with each other.
The final vote on the bill is this afternoon. Word is that Clinton will be in Washington to vote on it.
People need to get a bit of perspective.
Posted by snark at February 12, 2008 11:25 AMeriposte will write an article telling us that the press is picking on Hillary for telling us she didn't even show up to vote. Didn't show up to vote. Think about that. Would it be too much to ask her how she would have voted, had she had the time to go represent the people of New York?
As for Reid. He is embarrasing.
Thanks snark. I still think the amendment is pretty important. Isn't she picking on Obama for "present" votes and aren't well all picking on him for skipping the kyl-lieberman vote? Do you know which way she would have voted? Has she made any statements about this issue? I'm glad to hear she'll be there to vote on the final passage.
Posted by CG at February 12, 2008 11:36 AMI still think the amendment is pretty important.
As do I, but it was not even remotely close.
Isn't she picking on Obama for "present" votes...
Two entirely different things.
...and aren't well all picking on him for skipping the kyl-lieberman vote?
Only because he criticized HER vote on it when he couldn't be bothered to go vote himself. If Clinton criticizes Obama for his vote on this then we'll talk.
Posted by snark at February 12, 2008 11:48 AMI'm confused. Are Senators supposed to go to work when there is work to do, or only when it's convenient for them to do so? Do they only have to represent their constituency when they can win overwhelmingly, or are they supposed to fight the fight. I'm not impressed with a Senator that takes the day off when bills and amendments regarding spying on normal citizens is at stake.
Posted by T2 at February 12, 2008 12:08 PMGreat majorities aren't they. Great leadersheep too. Nice reason to vote Democratic, support the FISA law, the revamped FISA law. Last August they had the excuse of going on vacation and time running out. No excuse this time. The best leadersheep President Bush could have hoped for.
Posted by peter at February 12, 2008 12:16 PMI'm confused.
Like I said, a bit of perspective would help.
Posted by snark at February 12, 2008 12:32 PMLike I said, a bit of perspective would help.
Now who's the idealogue??
Posted by iamcoyote at February 12, 2008 12:34 PMok.....from my perspective, I think Senators supposed to go to work when there is work to do, not only when it's convenient for them to do so? Do they only have to represent their constituency when they can win overwhelmingly, or are they supposed to fight the fight. I'm not impressed with a Senator that takes the day off when bills and amendments regarding spying on normal citizens is at stake.
Posted by T2 at February 12, 2008 01:23 PMWas Hillary Clinton missing a vote today somehow an eye opening event for you T2? Were you in the dark about the fact that Senators miss a lot of votes?
Poor dear.
Posted by snark at February 12, 2008 01:56 PMI think Senators supposed to go to work when there is work to do, not only when it's convenient for them to do so?
I agree. Damn Obama for not being there for the Kyl-Lieberman thingy!
Posted by iamcoyote at February 12, 2008 02:02 PMshe's running for president, snark. One of only 3 Senators that are. Perhaps you are the one in the dark.
Posted by T2 at February 12, 2008 02:43 PMshe's running for president, snark.
You don't say? I believe Obama was running for Senator when he couldn't manage to get back to Washington for the vote on the Kyl-Lieberman vote. I didn't bellyache about that one either. Did you?
One of only 3 Senators that are.
Yup.
Perhaps you are the one in the dark.
Nope. I've been aware for a long time that Senators, even those running for president, miss votes.
Posted by snark at February 12, 2008 02:51 PMCG:
Glad that you got a chance to get out and vote. I hope you took your hubby with you because I undersand he supports Obama. I think you are having a bit of buyers remorse. No need to justify anything about Hillary she is doing the best she can.
Unfortunately the "wait til Texas" strategy is not working for her. So far as I listen she is 0 for 2 tonight. They just extended the poll closing in MD because of the weather. VA and DC are in and the numbers are overwhelming.
Sorry.
Posted by angryman at February 12, 2008 05:03 PM