I scandalized family and friends today by refusing to vote in the Chesapeake Primary. Any government who can taser a kid for asking a Senator a question about Bush's impeachment, is no government of mine and doesn't need my vote. Remember the boy who stood up and asked Kerry about the possibility of Bush's impeachment? He was tasered by two women cops. Fuck that.
Who wants to vote? In 2006 we went out and voted for Democrats to take over Congress. What happened? Nothing! We have vets coming home from Iraq and killing themselves.
Fuck this country and fuck the goverment; mostly fuck Hillary Thatcher. She WILL be the next President, because Obama will be lynched long before election day 2008, you can depend on it!
Screw the country and screw the voting process which is fixed anyway for the Republicans and their fascist shit friends.
Posted by Teresa in Baghdad at February 12, 2008 06:04 PMI thought Whitehouse was on the list of those who supported immunity.
Posted by CG at February 12, 2008 06:30 PMHe voted against it before he voted for it.
Posted by snark at February 12, 2008 06:39 PMJay: it's actually 0%.
If the election is close enough for a few votes to make a difference the courts will decide anyway.
Posted by Z at February 12, 2008 07:28 PMWell, if the myth of democracy wasn;t shattered in 2000 it sure is now.
The so-called Democratic congress has passed NONE of the legislation that they were put in the majority to pass.
They've launched barely any investigations into the most corrupt administration in modern times (beating even Reagan and Nixon, which is saying something). Those that have been launched have been stonewalled, and they've done nothing to stop it.
After 12 years of Republicans rubbing their face in every legislative rule they could think of, the now-majority Democrats practically apologize every time they make a decision.
"The party on the left is now another party on the right."
Posted by at February 12, 2008 07:35 PMObama is on that list.
Where is Clinton? Too busy? On the wrong side of the issue?
"Where is Clinton? Too busy? On the wrong side of the issue?"
Siberian, it would seem to me that if you are running for the Presidency of this Country, you would not miss such an important vote regardless of whether or not your vote counts. Missing the vote does leave you open to speculation on why you missed the vote.
Posted by Judith at February 12, 2008 09:44 PMYet it wasn't so important that Obama felt he needed to actually cast a vote against the bill that gives the telecoms immunity.
Obama did not vote on the bill.
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 05:29 AMObama didn't vote on the bill?? How do I find a link to that? It seems like an important thing, and it certainly leaves speculation open on why he missed it! One would think someone running for POTUS would want to be there. I guess IOKIYO.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 13, 2008 05:44 AMConveniently, coyote, there's a link right in the next thread down. Anyone interested can click on the "19 of their fellow Democrats" link and see for themselves. It shows the tally on the final up/down vote on the Telecom Bill, not just on the amendment to remove immunity. Apparently, Obama doesn't think all votes are so important either. Even one's dealing with our rights being flushed down the toilet. I guess maybe Obama thought the final bill, including immunity was ok?
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 05:58 AMGosh, snark, that's just awful! Why would Obama miss such an important vote?? And why is everyone ignoring it? What kind of President doesn't think our privacy is important? I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you!
Posted by iamcoyote at February 13, 2008 06:05 AMOh look Mom, it's the Frik and Frak Show.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 06:24 AMObama was there all day, he voted on all the other votes, up until the final vote, which was not even close.
Did Hillary even show up for work yesterday?
Posted by Seven of Six at February 13, 2008 06:35 AMThe larger question is why the Democrats did not vote as a block against the Bill and the immunity Amendment, with every Senator present to cast their vote? Tell me again why we elected them.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 06:39 AMYou know Seven of Six, it's things like this that discourages people to work for the Democrats, give money to the Democrats or even bother to vote. It's seems we are not important until they need our vote.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 06:53 AMOh, and by-the-way, if I am wrong about something I post, all you have to do is educate me on why I am wrong or provide a link as Snark did. Snide comments are for bullies Iamcoyote.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 07:29 AMSnide comments are for bullies Iamcoyote.
Judith, you spent most of the afternoon yesterday making a big deal out of Hillary not being there to vote on the amendment, even after snark provided the link showing she was there for the final vote. You got bent out of shape because it was soooo important that the candidates be there. You said it didn't matter that she might have arranged with Reid to skip the amendment vote and be there for the main vote, it was the priciple of the thing. You said who cares if it would have passed anyways. Yet here's SoS is saying that Obama's absence means nothing "because the vote wasn't even close," and you're trying to say that I'm the bully for pointing out your hypocrisy. So why shouldn't I be snide about your different set of principles when it comes to who was there and who wasn't? IOKIYO.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 13, 2008 07:50 AMYet here's SoS is saying that Obama's absence means nothing "because the vote wasn't even close,"...
Did I really say, "Obama's absence means nothing"?
Try putting words in someone elses mouth coyote, not mine!
Posted by Seven of Six at February 13, 2008 08:04 AMJudith, you spent most of the afternoon yesterday making a big deal out of Hillary not being there to vote on the amendment, even after snark provided the link showing she was there for the final vote.
Hillary was not there for the final vote. She was not in the Senate all day yesterday.
Posted by Seven of Six at February 13, 2008 08:09 AMDon't bother Seven of Six. Iamcoyote has already made her mind up what was said or done, and nothing is going to change it. I post one or two comment and get ridiculed for it. What happened to TLC that use to be?
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 08:20 AM"Hillary was not there for the final vote. She was not in the Senate all day yesterday."
Seven of Six, why of course she was there and voted. Didn't you get the word? Of course, the Senate didn't see her, but that doesn't mean she wasn't there. Right?
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 08:26 AMHillary was not there for the final vote.
Whoops, my bad SoS. But then, neither was Obama. So I guess it's even, right? They're both sellout assholes, right?
Whatever. It's still okay if you're Obama, and nothing's going to change that, right, Judith?
Posted by iamcoyote at February 13, 2008 08:44 AMIamcoyote, Yes, it is a "big deal" to me and I thought it important that all our so-called leaders be there for the vote. Evidently you do not feel that way. What is important to me may not be important to you. However, from the comments, it appears that others thought it a "big deal" also.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 08:47 AM"Whatever. It's still okay if you're Obama, and nothing's going to change that, right, Judith?"
So you were wrong Iamcoyote. Well that's a first. By-the-way, Obama did vote on the amendment which is exactly what I said from the beginning.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015
Iamcoyote, you obviously don't know that I don't like either candidate, Obama or Hillary. I was an Edwards supporter, remember.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 08:55 AMWell, of course it was a big deal to others, Judith. It was yet another reason to bash Hillary's faults and ignore Obama's doing the same thing. I choose to laugh at hypocrisy, you choose to get annoyed that it was pointed out. Big deal. Neither of us are winning in the end, because we both have to live in a dictatorship. You've wondered in the past why we're still able to blog at all? Think bread and circuses. This is the Colisseum, kids, and we're cheering the gladiators, being thankful we're not down there dying with them as we try to ignore the fact that, one day, we'll be fighting off the lions while a whole new audience cheers the carnage! Woohoo!
Posted by iamcoyote at February 13, 2008 09:02 AMSo you were wrong Iamcoyote. Well that's a first.
By the way, I've always admitted when I'm wrong, you know that Judith. And I don't pretend to be right all the time, either. I make fun of everyone equally.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 13, 2008 09:10 AM"Well, of course it was a big deal to others, Judith. It was yet another reason to bash Hillary's faults and ignore Obama's doing the same thing. I choose to laugh at hypocrisy, you choose to get annoyed that it was pointed out."
You know Iamcoyote, I really don't give a damn which of the two gets the nomination. I don't like either one of them, period. I didn't get annoyed at anything. All I was saying is both should have voted. If that is a sensitive point for Hillary supporters, then there is nothing I can do about that. I am upset when ANY Democrat that doesn't vote or votes with the opposition. I did not mean to bash Hillary, as I am one of the few here that doesn't like either candidate. Do I think she has gotten fair publicity during these many weeks, absolutely not. If I had to say who I will vote for right now, it would probably be Hillary. I just don't know yet.
Posted by at February 13, 2008 09:27 AM"Well, of course it was a big deal to others, Judith. It was yet another reason to bash Hillary's faults and ignore Obama's doing the same thing. I choose to laugh at hypocrisy, you choose to get annoyed that it was pointed out."
You know Iamcoyote, I really don't give a damn which of the two gets the nomination. I don't like either one of them, period. I didn't get annoyed at anything. All I was saying is both should have voted. If that is a sensitive point for Hillary supporters, then there is nothing I can do about that. I am upset when ANY Democrat that doesn't vote or votes with the opposition. I did not mean to bash Hillary, as I am one of the few here that doesn't like either candidate. Do I think she has gotten fair publicity during these many weeks, absolutely not. If I had to say who I will vote for right now, it would probably be Hillary. I just don't know yet.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 09:27 AM...up until the final vote, which was not even close.
So there we have it. It's ok to miss the vote if it's not going to be anywhere close. Like I said, these people talk to each other. I'm rather sure that Hillary Clinton was well informed that none of the votes were going to be close.
But please, let's not deny that people took the opportunity to slam Clinton's "leadership" because she missed an important vote, regardless of the fact that it was not even close and many of the same people have not advanced the same criticism of Obama for doing the same thing.
Selective outrage.
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 09:39 AMjeebus, Dear Leader puts another brick on the dictatorship wall and commenters here rant on about Obama this, Hillary that.
This vote is just another reason I am no longer a Democrat. The Democratic Party will NEVER get another penny from me, but I will donate to individual candidates.
Posted by Gay Veteran at February 13, 2008 11:07 AMTo strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.
Clinton (D-NY), Not Voting
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Whew! Clinton dodged a bullet there. Wunner why?
It is hard to count the number of high Clinton officials who, like Gorelick, have spent the last six years getting rich selling their contacts and influence by working on behalf of lobbying and other clients to pursue legislation directly at odds with the political beliefs they pretended to have and will, once they are back in power, pretend again to have. Gorelick, needless to say, is an enthusiastic contributor to the Hillary Clinton campaign (as well as to Joe Lieberman's). She'll undoubtedly be a leading candidate for Attorney General in the next Clinton administration (perhaps serving along with Clinton supporter and "foreign policy expert" Michael O'Hanlon). Telecom lobbyist Donilon is also a maxed-out Clinton contributor. Glenn Greenwald
Can anyone say neoliberalism?
Posted by phidipides at February 13, 2008 11:15 AMYeah, I guess she coulda showed up and covered her ass by voting on an amendment she knew was gonna fail. Like Obama did.
Wunner why Obama didn't stick around to vote "Nay" on the bill to "strengthen our national security"?
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 11:32 AMfrom Glenn Greenwald (his site is a MUST read for anyone who loves the Republic and hates tyranny, which of course excludes pants pissing peter, bagless bagley, and jarjar jj):
"...a large number of elected Democrats vote in favor of the radical Bush agenda for a very simple reason: they believe in it. Despite the glorious "D" after their name, their views are materially indistinguishable from the defining ones of the Bush faction on the key issues...."
Posted by Gay Veteran at February 13, 2008 11:32 AMjeebus, Dear Leader puts another brick on the dictatorship wall and commenters here rant on about Obama this, Hillary that.
Yes, we know you're oh so much more "serious" than the rest of us. Sorry to disturb your "seriousness" with our trivialities.
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 11:36 AMWhat is it with this fucking site. No one can say anything anymore without someone attacking.
Posted by Judith at February 13, 2008 12:32 PMI know Judith. If Gay Veteran doesn't want to participate in a particular exchange he should just ignore it.
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 12:38 PMIt's ok to miss the vote if it's not going to be anywhere close.
Once again, I will say, "Did I say it was OK for Obama to miss the final vote?"
Same goes for you snark, don't put words in my mouth!
Lets refresh everbody:
Obama was there all day, he voted on all the other votes, up until the final vote, which was not even close.
True statement!
Did Hillary even show up for work yesterday?
No she did not!!
Just stating facts. Plain and simple. Don't take it for anything else. Don't twist it, don't bend it. Just read it for what I said.
"Selective outrage" my ass! Just at people who want to make up their own fucking conclusions!
oh, sorry I got in the middle of the Hillary/Obama food fight, snark
Posted by gay veteran at February 13, 2008 06:20 PMGive me a break SoS.
Why add the qualifier, "which wasn't even close", if not to minimize Obama's absense?
That was my original point in the whole debate. That Clinton missing the amendment vote which she knew "wasn't even going to be close" wasn't the glaring lack of leadership that people were making it out to be.
I'm not the one who picked the issue up as a partisan weapon against anyone. Just looking for people who were critical of Clinton missing votes to be critical of Obama missing them too.
Posted by snark at February 13, 2008 06:57 PMWhy add the qualifier, "which wasn't even close", if not to minimize Obama's absense?
Was it a close vote? Once again, a true statement!
I was trying to minimized both Hillary and Obama's absence equally for missing the final vote.
I was pissed that Obama was not there for the final vote. No excuse for either one of them.
You can't deny Obama was there for more votes that day. (Of course I think he was stumping for some super delegate votes myself.)
You're the one minimizing Hillary's absence for not showing up at all. By saying she was in contact and knew what was up. That's a piss poor excuse.
Selective outrage, indeed.
Sorry, you're flailing.
Posted by snark at February 14, 2008 04:11 AMOnly the truth as you see it right snark?
Like coyote said... whatever.
Posted by Seven of Six at February 14, 2008 05:31 AM