Comments: Open Thread

It might be appropriate for us to take a moment off from assailing each other on our choice of savior in the upcoming elections to reflect on what is truly at stake. Whichever candidate wins the struggle, we're still facing the Imperial Propaganda Apparatus which will try to spin us dizzy on the occupation of Iraq.

I highly recommend that you read an article by the Irish journalist (without parentheses) Patrick Cockburn, entitled, Is the US really bringing stability to Baghdad?

In it, he makes some compelling points that we need to keep in mind as we gird our loins for battle with the hundred years war machine in the upcoming general election. Please read the whole article. Some pertinent excerpts:

The "surge" – the 30,000 extra US troops implementing a new security plan in Baghdad – has helped to make Baghdad safer. In effect, they have frozen into place the Shia victory of 2006. The city is broken up into enclaves sealed off by concrete walls with only one entrance and exit.

Baghdad still feels and looks like a city at war. There are checkpoints everywhere. "You seldom see young girls walking in the streets, or in restaurants," adds Zanab Jafar, "because their families are terrified they will be kidnapped, so they send private cars to pick them up directly from school."

The picture Bush evoked is similar to that often seen in Hollywood Westerns when outraged townsfolk and farmers, driven beyond endurance by the crimes of a corrupt sheriff or saloon owner and their bandit followers, rise in revolt. In reality, in Iraq the exact opposite has happened. The Awakening Council members of today are the "terrorists" of yesterday.

Even the police chief of Fallujah, Colonel Feisal, the brother of Abu Marouf, cheerfully explained that until he was promoted to his present post in December 2006 he was "fighting the Americans"

My friend, the intrepid French television reporter Lucas Menget, filmed a Shia policeman showering praise on the Awakening movement. He introduced two of its members, declaring enthusiastically to the camera: "You see, together we will defeat al-Qa'ida." Back in his police car, the policeman, lighting up a Davidoff cigarette and shaking his head wearily, explained: "I don't have a choice. I was asked to work with these killers."

Iraq remains a great sump of human degradation and poverty, unaffected by the "surge". It was not a government critic but the civilian spokesman for the Baghdad security plan, Tahseen Sheikhly, who pointed out this week that the city is drowning in sewage because of blocked and broken pipes and drains. In one part of the city, the sewage has formed a lake so large that it can be seen "as a big black spot on Google Earth".

And the telling, final paragraph, which sums it up terribly well,

But for millions of Iraqis like Bassim, the war has robbed them of their homes, their jobs and often their lives. It has brought them nothing but misery and ended their hopes of happiness. It has destroyed Iraq.

Can we please remember what is truly at stake in the upcoming election?

Posted by DeminNewJ at February 16, 2008 04:35 AM

We all know the count of the dead, even though the DoD and the press wants to somehow separate the combat deaths from the non-combat deaths (as if suicides and fatal vehicle accidents are no more common among GIs in Iraq right now than they are in Hinesville, Georgia or Fayetteville, North Carolina).

They likely would be alright if they had not been there in the first place. This is an embarrassing fact. Almost as embarrassing as the fact that all this maiming and killing - which by the way includes thousands of Iraqis - was started for no nobler purpose than plunder and power.

I'm not even going to go into the questions of Gulf War Syndrome, depleted uranium, or the more insidious post traumatic stress disorder that is transformed into a pathogen that attacks loved ones and society. I won't even belabor that every single one of us, at the end of the road, is a casualty in this war. For now, I'm just talking about wounds, because the very word has become anathema to the Ken & Barbie media.

War technology is science in the service of obscene anatomical vandalism. There is a reason we never see images of the wounded that are the day-to-day reality of this war by those we jokingly refer to as journalists. If we did, public acquiescence to this regime's little adventure would evaporate. What is now unimaginable to many would be placed before us un-sanitized, and we would recoil from it like a roomful of spiders.

Perhaps the first casualty we need to inflict on the Bush junta is to wound decorum. No one will like what they see when we pull the curtain back off the charnel house, and we will be castigated and resented for bringing the broken bodies into the room. But once the shattered flesh is there in front of it, America will lose its stomach for this war and for these home-grown Mussolinis of our de facto government.

http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08012003.html

The cost of War for the Iraqis and Americans.

81,269 - 88,720 - Iraqis dead

3,960 - Americans dead
23,000 - 100,000 Americans wounded (not injured)

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

There is no end. This War/Occupation will go on and on and on.

Posted by Judith at February 16, 2008 05:59 AM

"Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded," says Dr. Lyle Rossiter, author of the new book, "The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness." "Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave."...

Rossiter says the kind of liberalism being displayed by the two major candidates for the Democratic Party presidential nomination can only be understood as a psychological disorder.

"A social scientist who understands human nature will not dismiss the vital roles of free choice, voluntary cooperation and moral integrity – as liberals do," he says. "A political leader who understands human nature will not ignore individual differences in talent, drive, personal appeal and work ethic, and then try to impose economic and social equality on the population – as liberals do. And a legislator who understands human nature will not create an environment of rules which over-regulates and over-taxes the nation's citizens, corrupts their character and reduces them to wards of the state – as liberals do."

Dr. Rossiter says the liberal agenda preys on weakness and feelings of inferiority in the population by:

* creating and reinforcing perceptions of victimization;
* satisfying infantile claims to entitlement, indulgence and compensation;
* augmenting primitive feelings of envy;
* rejecting the sovereignty of the individual, subordinating him to the will of the government.

"The roots of liberalism – and its associated madness – can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind," he says. "When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious."

Posted by toldjah at February 16, 2008 06:56 AM

That link is for subscribers only. I'm sure it's interesting, but...

Posted by Jayhawk at February 16, 2008 07:12 AM

I have never read such tripe in my life toldjah. Obviously, Dr. Lyle has no ability to understand the Liberal Mind, much less write about it.

When the modern conservative mind whines about imaginary enemies (think terrorists/liberals), promotes fear (think terrorists), rages against imaginary villains (think terrorists/liberals) and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives (think loss of rights and civil liberties), the neurosis of the conservative mind becomes painfully obvious.

Rejecting the sovereignty of the individual, subordinating him to the will of the Government and GWB.

Posted by Judith at February 16, 2008 07:31 AM

"A political leader who doesn't understand human nature will ignore individual differences in talent, drive, personal appeal and work ethic, and then try to impose economic and social inequality on the population – as Conservatives do."

Talk about projecting onto the Liberals the very essence of what a Conservative stands for. Ya ya, we know, we have heard it from you guys for decades. It is those damn bleeding heart Liberals who believe in equality that is the root of the social injustice.

Posted by Judith at February 16, 2008 07:53 AM

Suck it out your ass, Toldjah. You want psychology? Let's talk about the effects small penis size has on Conservatives, how the need to compensate their great lacking results in them killing fellow human beings all over the globe. Let's talk about the effects latent, suppressed homosexuality has on Conservatives, the self-loathing it engenders and the rage it fuels as they continue killing and pillaging. Let's talk about that psychology, Toldjah. So, which are you -- small penis or latent, suppressed homosexual?

Posted by at February 16, 2008 08:40 AM

I wrote that, directly above this.

Posted by Brian Bell at February 16, 2008 08:41 AM

"pants pissin peteie along with the other criminal party apologists are incapable of understanding that a proliferation of guns leads to increased gun deaths and violence...he is by definition incapable...a true puke party defender of the faith

Posted by headxray at February 15, 2008 03:44 PM "

Headcase...which one of these are 'pukes'?

Obama Supports Individual Gun Rights
By NEDRA PICKLER – 19 hours ago

MILWAUKEE (AP) — Barack Obama said Friday that the country must do "whatever it takes" to eradicate gun violence following a campus shooting in his home state, but he believes in an individual's right to bear arms.

Posted by peter at February 16, 2008 07:53 AM
Campaigning in Ohio, Obama's rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton echoed Obama's comments.

"Obviously we have to first and foremost do everything we can to take reasonable steps to keep our children safe," she said. "And while safeguarding and respecting our Second Amendment rights, we have to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists, gang members and people with mental health problems."

Posted by peter at February 16, 2008 07:55 AM

Nice to know you're going to vote for a 'puke', a "defender of the faith".

Posted by peter at February 16, 2008 09:13 AM

"When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains..."

You mean when we think of the "imaginary corporate America villian" who does not believe in regulated capitalism?

Something like the healthcare industry, like the almighty dollar before life. After all this is a business, can't have some liberal wanting to save a limb because the person can't afford to have the hospital procedure. That imaginary villian?

Don't forget we can spent that 12 billion a month in Iraq, buying peace by arming the Sunnis, paying the Shia not to fight and waiting to steal their oil in the end. While the companies who hold contracts there rip off the tax paying citizens of America! You mean that imaginary villian?

Shall I continue or do you get the idea!

Posted by Seven of Six at February 16, 2008 09:40 AM

It seems that Seven forgets those people that work in the healthcare industry. They're not the villians he makes them to be. Then there's the property owner's, are they the villians for wanting some monitary compensation from their property? These places, these hospitals and clinics don't just pop up, how about the builders, construction workers. The doctors, are they the villians for wanting compensation? These doctors invest a lot of time learning the profession, a lot of money too. How about those people that encounter problems with care forcing vast amounts of compensation requiring insurance? How about the lawyers working these suits? How about the suppliers, the venders? You ask me their are a lot of people here, not corporations, people.

You want all these people to donate their time and service for the greater good? Really?


Regulated capitalism...please...what crap.

Posted by peter at February 16, 2008 10:26 AM

I'm so sick of Jake Tapper.

Posted by CG at February 16, 2008 10:29 AM

Something I overlooked:

http://www.mahablog.com/2008/02/13/going-forward/

Posted by albatross at February 16, 2008 11:55 AM

Regulated capitalism...please...what crap.

Right petie, I'm against people trying to make a living!

Stupid fucker, how about if we just stop short of greed for the property owners, builders, doctors and lawyers. I have no problem with the rest of the healthcare industry employees just getting by.

How about the developers who leave when the infrastructure is incomplete or gets more expensive. They can pass it on to the city, right or whoever?
Don't you think the property owners share a responsibility in a correctly completed job?

How about doctors and lawyers taking the health of the citizen above all else, instead of the bottom line?

Unregulated capitalism is a failure, it didn't work under Ray-gun, bu$h and it won't work under McCain... better get a new meme going.

Posted by Seven of Six at February 16, 2008 12:03 PM

But it did under Clinton????
Everything was just swell then????

We ended welfare, we ended big government. We got everybody healthy, wealthy and wise. Nobody attacked us, everybody just loved the hell out of us.

Posted by peter at February 16, 2008 12:24 PM

I see that since Obama won't debate Clinton, she may just leap over him and debate McOld. Get on with the GE.

Posted by peter at February 16, 2008 12:46 PM

Since this is "open thread," I thought I'd drop a little campaign news I just ran across. Apparently, after making a big deal about how she would be devoting so much time over the next four days to Wisconsin, Hillary will now be leaving Wisconsin Monday morning, she will not even wait around for the primary the next day. Please note, I'm an Obama supporter, of course, but I'm not going to trumpet this as some great Obama victory, yet. You won't see me saying in this comment anything in favor of him.

I am just observing that a lot has changed for the worse for Hillary in this race. Only a week ago there was talk about how Hillary was ahead in Wisconsin and some in the media were even speculating it could be a smaller version of the Ohio race. There were even a couple thread commenters here less than a week ago who thought she would win in Wisconsin and talked about how she was ahead in the polls by almost double digits. Leaving a state early, before the primary is even held, is surrendering Wisconsin. The latest round of polls shows Obama ahead in Wisconsin.

Coldly looking at the state of the race and holding back all my Obamaramamania, I can't help but conclude Hillary's campaign is in a state of near complete collapse. Look at it: Campaign manager, who hadn't been in charge for over a month anyway, fired; big-time money troubles; campaign continues to dismiss state losses after state losses as irrelevant, now ceding ground in Wisconsin she promised to fight for; and, outlying polls coming out of Texas are just starting to show, amazingly, an Obama lead, and many are showing a dead heat, where only a week ago the woman had a double-digit lead there, too. Much of this concentration on Texas and Ohio is directly attributable to money troubles. No campaign gives up competing for any state or any votes unless they have to due to lack of cash flow.

Posted by Brian Bell at February 16, 2008 12:49 PM

the good alleged doctor rossiter can be contacted: drrossiter@sbcglobal.net I let him know what I thought of his attack on liberals.......

Posted by headxray at February 16, 2008 01:00 PM

I hate it when she moves on to the next state before the primary. I know she has to campaign, but it's like she's got a short attention span or something.

Posted by CG at February 16, 2008 01:00 PM

Sadly I have to watch yet another, potentially substantive discussion thread hijacked by the content free troll droppings. Can we NOT have a discussion of seminal, progressive issues without being distracted by supernally superficial troll bait by the likes of Peter, todljah etc.

These cretins have nothing of merit to discuss, yet, once they weigh in with completely mindless maunderings, everyone can't refrain from trying to argue against nonsensical and truly stupid arguements. Folks, this is their purpose! Don't feed them, please

Posted by DeminNewJ at February 16, 2008 01:09 PM

Peter:

Calling McCain McOld. I think a Repub like you is hanging around this Dem blog too long. You are mellowing down. However, it is good for you to come to the real world with real issues than just an agenda. It looks like you are one of those Repubs that Obama talks about who whisper to him that they support him. If you see McOld is nothing but more of the same then you have seen the light. I assure you, you will feel much better when you put your country first and party second.

Posted by suresh at February 16, 2008 01:23 PM

Suresh, you're mistaken. Not gonna happen...I'm okay with" McOld", that's what y'all want to call him, fine. My country, our country comes first, party second. Our leadership, this president has been doing the job he needs to do. He's not running again, not gonna run for anything. Whatever poll numbers he gets is okay with me, up or down. He's doing and has done what the job requires him to do.

McOld will do the same job when he's elected next November. Although he's not my first choice, I will have no problem voting for him. He is a great American, has served, is serving our country well.

Posted by at February 16, 2008 03:32 PM
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