Think of this: he's tired, he's bitter, his smile looks like a grimace, he's out of ideas, he's inconsistent and he's running on George W. Bush's failed presidency. He's no longer the maverick who will tell us the truth. I honor McCain's military record but if he were running for general instead of for president, he would still be fighting the Vietnam War. And yet, some polls show MCain leading in the race for the White House.
Our nation is in crisis.
Whether the nominee is Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, the Democrats need to put up the best campaign possible. And they need to start now to chip away at the media-driven illusion that is John McCain.
Posted by Craig at February 20, 2008 03:34 PMThe way things are going we will not be nominating a real progressive candidate for the presidency so we need to choose between Republican McCain and Republican Obama. By the way if you all missed, Obama is "Open" to privatizing public education. I come here to post a comment saying that I am not in the category of people who says they would not vote Obama if he is the nominee but everyday I learn something new of him and suddenly feels like Should I really vote him? He seems like Bush but can give real good speeches.
So with two republicans in race we need to choose lesser of two evils and everyday McCain is looking good because we know shit hits the fan when he becomes president and at least we can blame the real republican rather than the closet republican.
So McCain was against torture before he was for it?
The Geneva convention should be ammended to include being forced to listen to one of his "speeches".
Posted by TIKI AL at February 20, 2008 04:38 PMDon't be silly, TIKI AL! You don't think sleep deprivation for long periods, forced stress positions, prolonged heat and cold are torture, do you? The next thing you know, they'll be outlawing thumbscrews and the rack! What's a civilized country to do?
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at February 20, 2008 04:55 PMThis is a really good case of why it is hard to run for president when you're a member of the minority in the Senate. Democrats can force McCain into votes like this one, where he had the choice of hypocrisy or angering his sadistic Republican base.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at February 20, 2008 06:37 PMThis is the correct position politically. I dont see how you could say in a ticking time bomb situation that you would not allow something like waterboarding if it was a last resort. I think thats going to hurt Obama or Hillary in the election if thats their answer. I dont care what the polls say about whether its torture or not, when you ask them waterboarding or losing thousands of american lives I know what theyre going to say. And to be against it is going to make you look like a... like youre too liberal.
Posted by Joensy at February 20, 2008 09:58 PM"I dont see how you could say in a ticking time bomb situation that you would not allow something like waterboarding if it was a last resort."
So, you think torture is quite OK, in the kind of situation where you think it is quite OK. And rape, too? And murder?
Oh, and by the way, making someone think he is going to die if he does not tell you anything he thinks you want to hear is a really great way to get valid, life-saving information!
GAWD!
Posted by Shirin at February 20, 2008 10:03 PMI dont see how you could say in a ticking time bomb situation that you would not allow something like waterboarding if it was a last resort.
We don't make the speed limit 90 MPH so expectant fathers can legally rush their wives to the hospital when they are in labor. If someone really thinks torturing someone is absolutely necessary to save lives, they should have to violate the law, then take it to court and if it was justified, there won't be punishment.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at February 20, 2008 11:04 PMThats not a bad idea. Let them violate the law if necessary, then have a court or maybe the congress decide on the punishment. That answer may actually work. Thats actually pretty brilliant imo. Theres also the idea of having to get permission from a judge, like the way youre suppose to with FISA.
I dont think the speeding husband analogy works though because the only bad thing that can occur from not being able to speed is having a baby in the car, not losing thousands of peoples lives.
I believe the CIA has said that waterboarding was effective in some cases. Im not positive about that though. Remember I was just talking about how it would play "politically" not that I have thought it through... philosophically. I want to win, and so does McCain, thats why he changed his position. I think Obama and Hillary would like to too if they werent in a liberal democratic primary.
I dont consider running water up someones nose to be the equivalent of rape or murder. There would have to be limits. Waterboarding just doesnt seem that bad imo.
Posted by Jonesy at February 20, 2008 11:25 PM"Waterboarding just doesnt seem that bad imo"
Good, then you won't mind going through a few sessions of it. That COULD be arranged, you know.
Posted by Shirin at February 20, 2008 11:55 PM"I dont see how you could say in a ticking time bomb situation that you would not allow something like waterboarding if it was a last resort."
pant pissing peter, is that you? jarjar jj? bagless bagley? sorry, life is not an episode of "24", you Gestapo wannabe
Posted by Gay Veteran at February 21, 2008 05:16 AM