"cancer patients have to hunt down their own drugs"
By no means do I want to minimize the horrible effects the invasion and occupation have had on a once state-of-the art medical system that was already broken by over a dozen years of unspeakable sanctions and import embargo (to which Bill Clinton, with the enthusiastic support of the great women's and children's advocate, Hillary Clinton, contributed eight horrific years). However, Iraqis having to hunt down their own drugs is nothing new. For those who are interested, I recommend the French film Zaman, the Man from the Reeds. It is not a documentary, but a feature film. Neflix has it. I find it a lovely film, and it follows just such a hunt. It is in French and Arabic, with English subtitles.
Posted by Shirin at February 22, 2008 02:15 PMBeing a Democrat is always so gloom and doom. Train service restored. Only about 2 to 2.5 million left Iraq. Commercial air service is resuming, already the airport in Mosul is receiving commercial air. Families coming home each and every day. Now that the budget has been approved, government funded improvements will be getting attention. Public works, and more important job creation will get off the ground. Infrastructure will get more attention. Sure it takes time to get things turned around. CNN had a video showing local commerce resuming with rebuilding of communities happening. It's nowhere near the hell you people seem to make it.
Where's that famous Democratic vision? Lost...
Bobby Kennedy would be all for this, not the entry, the reconstruction. His Democratic Party wasn't so selfish as the folks that resemble Democrats today.
On an aside, Hillary Clinton paid a visit to with the family of the motor cop killed during her appearance in Dallas. Made a special trip, canceled or shortened her Fort Worth event. Very nice gesture, very heart felt, I have a much better appreciation of her character from this happening. Not getting my vote, but more respect from this person.
Posted by peter at February 22, 2008 02:19 PMpeter,
go help their economy by taking your next vacation there. yes, some things are improving, but reading those articles, it's still an absolute disaster.
Posted by Turkana at February 22, 2008 02:40 PM"Some 151,000 to 1,000,000+ have died violent deaths."
I do think that I have asked this question before, but then again: at what point will you Lefties begin to cite "studies" indicating that the entire population of Iraq has died as a result of this war?
And, by-the-way, the one-million-plus figure is a joint effort by two opinion research companies.
Opinion research?
Once again: opinion research?
Well, I do suppose that everyone has an opinion and perhaps you Lefties will eventually find someone with the opinion that the whole of the Iraqi population is dead.
Posted by Bagley at February 22, 2008 03:25 PM"the one-million-plus figure is a joint effort by two opinion research companies"
1. The study they did was NOT an opinion study, it was a mortality study. They are two different things.
2. The one-million plus figure tracks very closely with figures extrapolated from the two scientific studies whose results were published in The Lancet. That study was conducted using the accepted state-of-the-art methodology for mortality studies in conflict situations - the exact same methodology that resulted in virtually universally accepted results for the conflicts in Ruwanda and Serbia. Odd, isn't it, how the very same people who found the methodology just fine when it was used for those studies found it "flawed" when it yielded results they did not like in Iraq (and of course, no one who really understands epidemiology or statistical analysis could actually point to where it was flawed, except that the results did not fit with their politically-based wishes).
Posted by Shirin at February 22, 2008 03:55 PMSorry - by "that study" I was referring to the two scientific mortality studies whose results were published in The Lancet. As for the more recent study - the one bagley ignorantly refers to as an "opinion" study, it was conducted in a similar manner, as I recall.
Posted by Shirin at February 22, 2008 04:11 PM"... two scientific studies whose results were published in The Lancet."
Since discredited. (One source: http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/databomb/index.htm)
But, Shirin, consider some rough numbers: the Iraq war has been going on for 114 months which, considering a figure of one-plus-million dead, would mean 8800 dead per month, or 290 dead per day.
Where are the bodies?
Where do you put 290 bodies per day for 3420 days without eliciting photographs of mass graves or long, long lines of grave diggers and mourners?
"...(and of course, no one who really understands epidemiology or statistical analysis could actually point to where it was flawed, except that the results did not fit with their politically-based wishes)."
Where are the bodies?
Posted by Bagley at February 22, 2008 04:14 PMBagley, no, those two studies have not been discredited by any means, though there were plenty of nonsense attempts on the part of politically-interested parties, none of whom know or understand anything about epidemiology, mortality studies, or statistical analysis.
Bagley, you do not have a clue what you are yapping on about. But of course, that will not stop you from yapping on, now, will it?
Posted by Shirin at February 22, 2008 04:31 PMShirin,
"...those two studies have not been discredited by any means..."
Yes they have.
But more to the point: Where are the bodies?
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Bagley at February 22, 2008 04:46 PMbag less..this is a research study..try the British medical journal The Lancet they will substantiate the figures for Iraqi dead..that is IF you are intelligent enough to find the study...which is very doubtful..oh and don't forget...you're still an asshole...
Posted by headxray at February 22, 2008 05:19 PMthose studies are not discredited...you are
"...try the British medical journal The Lancet..."
Obviously, headxray, your keeper did not read aloud for you the back-and-forth postings (Shirin:Me).
Posted by Bagley at February 22, 2008 05:24 PMThe World Health Organization was the other recent mortality study.
It found between 110,00 and 224,000 deaths from violence in the three years from the invasion until June 2006, and a stupendous increase in non-violent deaths as well. The study elected to average the difference and declared 151,000 likely excess deaths from violence, making it far and away the leading cause of death in Iraq.
But the health system has failed as well, as has nutrition and sanitation, which has also has resulted in hundreds of thousands more execess "non-violent" deaths.
And of course neither of these studies cover the horrendous period of the second half of 2006 and 2007, where civilians were likely dying at even higher rates.
In short, there's simply no doubt that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died as a result of our invasion and blown occupation. 200,000? 300,000? 600,000? We'll never know for sure; that's how our "government" wanted it. Don't ask, Don't tell, right?
Only head-in-the-sand numbskulls like bagley run nonsense contrarian arguments up the flagpole. "Duh, where's the bodies?" Like we (or our glorious military) "see" one thousandth of the daily "events" going on in Iraq.
Finally as to the discrepancy between and Lancet and the WHO study, the latter relied heavily on Iraqi government data and numerous Iraqi sources say that the "early" numbers are too fragmentary and that the total number of deaths is higher.
As to your question garbagebagger, the bodies are quietly buried by family or tribal members in single graves, usually without informing the "government" of anything. There aren't mass graves or processions of cars or "line of grave diggers" as in your suburban cul-d-sac enclave of complacent couch potatoes.
Keep denying reality bagley, it's what we expect of you at every turn. Cretin.
Posted by euzoius at February 22, 2008 06:46 PMThe UK's Ministry of Defence, Chief Scientific Adviser has an opinion on the Lancet study. He said,
"...the survey's methods were "close to best practice" and the study design was "robust"."
"Another expert agreed the method was "tried and tested"."
Let's repeat that for the slow learners among us Susan Jacoby's so fond of.
"...a memo by the MoD's Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir Roy Anderson, on 13 October, states: "The study design is robust and employs methods that are regarded as close to "best practice" in this area, given the difficulties of data collection and verification in the present circumstances in Iraq."
Iraqi deaths survey 'was robust' by Owen Bennett-Jones
BBC World Service, BBC News, Mon 26 Mar 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6495753.stm
1,033,000 mostly violent, untimely deaths in a deceitful failed thieving war.
Let's see, those SW Asians hate us for our freedoms. That right?
hey pants pissing peter, we're still waiting on that personal report from you on just how good things are in Baghdad
guess you have better things to do, like sitting in mommy's basement typing away on your keyboard in the great war against islamomarxomooreohitlercrackerjackofascists
and right on cue bagless bagley pipes in with the latest shit from right-wing war criminals
how come you two cowards aren't posting from Iraq?
I'm tired of cowardice masquerading as patriotism.
Posted by gay veteran at February 23, 2008 01:03 PM