Everything's shifted, and Barry looks like what he is: a young, inexperienced, politician with more ambition than commitment to core Democratic values.
I do not know what will happen tonight, but I know that Barry's ship is about to hit an iceberg.
Posted by chris at March 4, 2008 07:54 AM...it really all boils down to their love of Barack Obama and their hatred of Clinton.
I neither love Obama nor do I hate Clinton.
I prefer Obama.
I wonder if the storm in Ohio will keep voters from showing up?
As is being discussed in the open thread below, junior backbenching senator Hillary has now explicitly stated that her Dem opponent is inferior as a candidate to insane militarist Repub McCain. She's crossed the Rubicon. But of course she's "honored" to be on the same stage with Obama....
When we lose in Nov, it will be because of statements like this made in the primary. They strongly reinforce the lying Repub narrative (should Obama win) and they make it impossible for many Obama supporters to vote for her should she pull this out.
As I say, she's now crossed the political Rubicon and there's no going back. And no "apologizing" or "here's what I really meant" crapola. We know what you meant, Hillary. It's quite clear.
Posted by euzoius at March 4, 2008 08:23 AMI have been taunting the folks at Orange Republic with predictions that people will discuss whether Obama should drop out after today's primaries..
but if Hillary wins TX, some journalists will start writing obituaries for Obama's campaign.
I'd encourage Clinton to remain in the race so we can get an insight into the GOP attack strategy they plan to use on Obama, if he's nominated. The last few days of Clinton attacks appear to have been based on Rovian/McOld strategy that Hillary learned so well in her 100 years of experience.
Posted by T2 at March 4, 2008 08:32 AMA Tale of Two Foreign "Memos":
A leaked Canadian memo on the highly accessible subject of NAFTA detailing a discussion between two minor functionaries that could be spun as "unfavorable" to a popular Dem prez candidate gets immediate national TV coverage.
A leaked British memo detailing the PM's cabinet meeting relating to his intelligence chief's meetings with high level Repub US officals and the Repubs stated attempt to "fix" the intelligence in favor of a military invasion literally is not covered by US media outlets (for years).
Funny how that works, isn't it?
Posted by euzoius at March 4, 2008 08:38 AMeuzoius,
Why is that horrible? She is only bringing up what McCain is guaranteed to say and her own experience and how it would counter his. She is only contrasting her experience versus Obama's hope but nothing get done experience.
She did not say anything about McCain's ideologies being good and she prefers that versus Obama's. When Obama was praising Regan where were you all?
euzo,
she did not say that. you're smarter than the average kossack. please act like it.
Posted by Turkana at March 4, 2008 08:44 AM1. She does not have superior experience to Obama in anything. She's a junior backbenching one term senator.
2. She said all Obama has is "a speech", which completely denies him ANY experience whatever---and this from a Dem.
3. Repubs can now trumpet that Dems themselves ackowledge that Obama is inferior as a candidate to McCain, and that Hillary herself thinks McCain is preferable to Obama. And they will.
But Hillary's "just gettin' warmed up!"
Posted by euzoius at March 4, 2008 08:53 AMeuzoius,
Obama himself has said, Repthugs are the party of ideas not the democrats and Regan is the messiah. So that can also be used by rethugs in GE if he is the nominee.
So as I said, stop spinning.
euzo,
her point was that mccain will tout his experience, and that she can better counter that. it was not that mccain is a better candidate than obama. i also discount her experience argument, but i also discount obama's change argument.
Posted by Turkana at March 4, 2008 09:04 AMeuzoius,
chill with the hostility. you guys are supposed to bring us all together. remember? in all that distortion you spew it's pretty hard to take the premise of Obama's campaign seriously. back away for a little while and calm yourself down.
3. Repubs can now trumpet that Dems themselves ackowledge that Obama is inferior as a candidate to McCain, and that Hillary herself thinks McCain is preferable to Obama. And they will
This is an odd statement, considering that conventional wisdom suggests that Obama has in fact won his party's nomination already. So evidently a majority of his party disagrees with HRC.
Of course there's also that 49% of the party that agrees with her.
And if he is truly a transformational candidate, wouldn't attacks like these fall on deaf ears? I mean if he truly represents new politics wouldn't the "Audacity of Hope" make him immune from the politics of old?
I thought the point of running a campaign was to convince voters that you are the better stronger candidate. Am I missing something here?
Posted by JB64 at March 4, 2008 09:07 AMshe did not say that.
Sorry Turk she did say it and it is crap.
Posted by Anjha at March 4, 2008 09:10 AMAfter Ohio and Texas.....
Who can "close the deal" ???
Who has the "moral claim" to the nomination???
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/03/clintons_moral_claim.html
Good luck at the polls today..may the best candidate win!!!
"Can you hear me Ohio/Texas/Rhode Island/Vermont...you are the country..you are the nation..you will survive...."
Posted by PaulieB at March 4, 2008 09:14 AMWhen Obama was praising Regan where were you all?
Oh, but that was a clever ruse to get 'pukes to vote for him - in a Democratic primary. He's not really gonna appoint Repubs to his cabinet, either, it's his genius at work! Besides, Obama's going into today with a bad week behind him, and his minions aren't as sure of his landslide as they were last week. Hence the return of the racism charges, the traitor charges, the harumphs and the "she's evil!" mantras. Fer christ sake, dKos has a frikkin' diary saying Hillary herself made Obama look black in her ads! Dkos is now kerning and masking with the rest of the freaks.
Our opinions also often have nothing to do with those of people in the real world.
At this point, Turkana, it would appear to be a blessing.
Posted by iamcoyote at March 4, 2008 09:14 AMcontext, anijha. we don't know what she was asked, and she in now way suggested mccain is superior to obama. she made clear that she thinks mccain's experience argument works against obama and not against her. that's all. she didn't at all talk about overall campaign dynamics, or who would be the better candidate. until you have a full video, with no tight editing, we have no idea what it was about. people have been closely editing her answers to make them look as bad as possible.
Posted by Turkana at March 4, 2008 09:18 AMchill with the hostility.
I read that on a thread below as well.
Why is it that defending one candidate from attacks is hostility and constant front page attacking with republi-con talking points is simply "opinion" or "honest political argument"?
Seriously people - we do not even need the Republic-con Party anymore to tear us apart - it seems that we are quite capable of doing this ourselves.
It has become very sad to watch this happen.
This should be our year. America is sick a frikkin tired of the neocons and all of their disasterous policies. We should be taking this election home with hundreds of down-ticket wins.
Instead we are spending millions of dollars attacking eachother.
On top of this - America is going further to hell. Recession. Foreclosures. War - endless war. And, has anyone else noticed the massive amounts of public shootings? Seems every single day someone goes off and shoots up a school or some other public place.
Then there is all of the legislation that we should be fighting and it seems no one is paying attention to the Congress - too busy tearing down one of our candidates.
I really wish that I could see us come together and get over this crap and start fighting the real fight - November 2008.
Posted by Anjha at March 4, 2008 09:20 AMI personally hope it's over after the results of Junior Tuesday come in. I'm sick and tired of the over the top antics in the left blogosphere...we have become the enemy and have lost site of the goal.
Having said that if Senator Clinton wins even one of the big delegate states TX or OH...I don't see how it will be over, especially if it is close. However I feel that if she loses both even if it is close in those states she should quit.
Posted by emal at March 4, 2008 09:23 AMHillary put herself on the same page as McCain last night. Same experience(lol)he can murder her in the experience category/ Thus she was wlling to sacrfice the Democratic Party and its possible nominee Obama. all for the sake of a chance to keep fighting for her bid to be that nominee.
She is on the same page with McCain on the Iraq war, she does have the worse foreign policy decision in the history of the US on her record.
On the senate floor when Byrd,Feingold, Boxer, and many others made the point of the debacle the Iraq War Authoization would be, the costs in treasure and lives, the ensuing civil war caused by Years and years of history between the Shites
and Sunnis Hillary stood with McCain and Bush. Her judgement was incorrect she and MCain are war mongers against anti peace and negotions first people.
Last night she displayed what is important to her,
The independents will flock to McCain in Nov. if she wins the nomination and we get to have 4 or 8 years of more war. Health Care will go out the window, if any of you read last weeks costs of the war coverage, this war is now costing 3 trillion dollars with an foreseeable future cost of over 2 million soldiers who have participated in the Iraq War and have yet to apply for benefits and health care. Thats what we are looking at. Anyone with a legitimate argument to this I would love to read it. Remember no less than the Nobel Peace winner Stigliz testified before commitee last week as to these economic facts.
I see where people are saying if Clinton wins TX and OH, the story will be of her great "comeback". She, of course, had double digit leads in both those states at one time and is tied or close now. How is that a comeback? Well, easy. If you have 30 years of experience spinning the political landscape of Politics as Usual, it's second nature.
Posted by T2 at March 4, 2008 09:41 AMHaving fun Turkana?
Today is Hillary Clinton's day, at least with the pop vote. She wins Ohio by 8 to 10 points and Texas by three. Rhode Island and Vermont probably split. Sorry folks, her campaign lives past today and for a long time...still 16 states that want to get in on this.
Get your popcorn ready, mine is.
Posted by peter at March 4, 2008 10:05 AMWe in the blogs are all very smart. Our opinions also often have nothing to do with those of people in the real world.
This should be the required login and password for every blogger who covers politics.
Posted by at March 4, 2008 10:10 AMIt's not really surprising, is it? As I watch this primary season play out, I get the very strong feeling that Obama is bubble, blown out of all proportion by his fanatic supporters and the media. Sooner or later, the bubble is going to burst and what will we have left as a nominee? I think what this poll is telling you is that Democrats are not ready to hand over the reins of power to a phenomenon. They want to have a fall back candidate in case Obama hits a snag. They are hedging their bets. It sounds very wise to me.
Posted by riverdaughter at March 4, 2008 10:26 AMThe idea that Hillary is using some far off attack on Obama is stupid. I for one, not knowing who to vote for in the CA primary, did not like Obama or Clinton. My candidate had just lost SC and I knew he would be out of the picture. I did what I always do with every vote. I researched the issue or candidate. I Googled for accomplishments for each of the candidates. It took me 5 minutes to figure out that the best candidate for the job was Hillary. HRC has attacked Obama for the same reason I don't like Obama. I see him as a politician whose action does not support his talk. On Iraq, he has to go back to a 2002 speech to convince us that he's been against the war all along. Hell, I've been against that war also since 2002, but I've written, marched and done just about all I can as a citizen to change the dynamics. He's been a senator since 2004 and all he has to show is a speech from 2002. The man is all talk and no action and that's not how we accomplish what we need to do. Go Hillary.
To JB64
I must respond to your statement:
"Of course there's also that 49% of the party that agrees with her."
Wrong Bullwinkle. Check who has given Obama his wins. The majority of Democrats support HRC. I'm not sure, but I think WI is the exception. In every other state, time and time again, Democrats voted for Clinton and Obama was able to win the state with the support of independents and cross over Republicans. Hillary has the majority of affiliated Democrats.
Posted by Prabhata at March 4, 2008 10:38 AMLook at the post above this one. Clinton has raised over $100 million for this campaign. As has Obama. Do you think the bulk of the people (or corporations) who donated that money want her to give up without a fight? And neither would the Obama donors were he in her place.
Those supporting Obama here often raise the negative aspects of Clinton's "experience" ie her vote on the AUMF but expect Clinton not to raise Obama's lack of "experience" as a campaign issue. And if you think the GOP hasn't already written that play into their playbook your awfully naive. Hillary Clinton didn't find a unique angle with that one.
It's down to the nitty gritty people. Get a grip. It's a campaign. Two people competing for one spot with a lot of money and interested people behind them. If they were just expected to say, "Hey vote for me or...vote for the other guy... whichever you feel like!", we'd have Florida and Michigan all over the country wouldn't we?
I think it will be over after tonight but who knows. I know I'll be up watching things unfold.
Posted by snark at March 4, 2008 10:40 AM
If you want to spare staying up late, give a read to the Jonathan Alter piece on TPM. They way he counts it, it's done. If Hillary's very experienced campaign can count, they know it too.
Posted by T2 at March 4, 2008 11:32 AMI'll let the voters have there say T2.
Posted by snark at March 4, 2008 11:42 AMbig day..whoever wins ohio and texas today is the nominee..i think it will be hillary
Posted by dennis at March 4, 2008 11:57 AMHey dennis...we agree, at least about who wins today.
Posted by peter at March 4, 2008 12:22 PMwell we'll know tomorrow..and i have the distinct feeling that the obama people are quite nervous..she wins em both..she is going to be the nominee..you can take that to the bank
Posted by dennis at March 4, 2008 12:30 PMand forget the nonsense..she doesn't need to win them big..
Posted by dennis at March 4, 2008 12:31 PMand frankly i am not even sure she has to win both...baracks shine is starting to fade a bit under the glare..the nafta bullshit with canada... is just that ..plus his actual record is actually being discussed finally..he is not electable
Posted by dennis at March 4, 2008 12:37 PMSlow down dennis, take a break from the coffee. He needs to answer that 3 AM phone call.
Posted by peter at March 4, 2008 12:49 PMpeter..a hypothetical for you..and don't hurt yourself..she wins ohio and texas what does it mean?
Posted by dennis at March 4, 2008 12:52 PM"...He's not really gonna appoint Repubs to his cabinet, either, it's his genius at work!...."
you like a dog with a bone, drop it already, EVERY administration has a member of the opposite party in the Cabinet
Posted by gay veteran at March 4, 2008 01:39 PMI'd say it means a great deal that after outspending her 4-1 in both states, he's still unable to close the deal. I'd say that it offers proof that Democratic voters haven't decided to anoint him the nominee. I'd say that it puts Florida and Michigan back into play. I'd say it stems the tide of super-delegates from going his way.
The math might not change much, but the perception of the race will. That means a great deal indeed.
Posted by jb64 at March 4, 2008 01:47 PMjb64...exactly...this thing ain't over..by a long shot
Posted by dennis at March 4, 2008 01:52 PMdennis, it means six more weeks of this primary winter for Democrats.
Posted by peter at March 4, 2008 04:40 PM