"the Democratic candidates don't mention it nearly often enough." No they don't. Why? Well maybe the actually do. I can't attend every rally so I have to depend on the Media to tell me what they say. The Media and Press decided last September that Iraq was a done deal. Petraeus told us all that things were improving and the Surge would seal the deal. The Media has spent the last eight months reinforcing the idea that Bush has Succeeded in Iraq and the rule is not to rock that boat. Media Control...it can start a war and it can end a war (except on the battlefield). Clinton and Obama can yell about the war every speech they make, and unless you are there, all you'll hear is "Hillary says Obama is inexperienced" and "Obama says Hillary uses bad judgement". And of course, "McCain says we are winning".
Posted by T2 at March 13, 2008 12:11 PM"... the Democratic candidates don't mention it nearly often enough."
no they don't,
and i am getting increasingly annoyed that they don't.
nor do they speak publicly about the evident severe economic distress this county is experiencing.
of course, virtually all my info comes from the weblogs and the web images of the big newspapers. so maybe obama v. clinton isn't really the talk of the rest of america.
but i suspect it is.
the iraq invasion and costs
4000 lives and $500 billion+ should be front and center for clinton and for obama.
instead it's
who shot john,
over and over.
neither candidate wants to risk getting caught in the future with a comment they made now.
it's all risk avoidance.
that's leadership?
"up 36%"...........from what number? 460 to 620, what was a year ago????????????? maybe 1900?
Nice of you to begin with persons/Service Members Turk. That doesn't happen over here too much. Know anything about them or are their names here to personalize or inflame the antiwar feelings over here? What was the name of the soldier we lost in Kosovo last year? As often as I'm home on Sunday mornings, I always pay special attention to "In Memoriam" on ABC's Sunday Morning program. The list of our Service Members has shortened dramatically since September. Last Sunday there were three names displayed.
So tell me, who was the 3000th Service Member lost? Pardon me but it seems y'all are about the numbers and not the people. How much of a club will the 4000th be? The 4730th that happens in 2011? The 5001st in October of 2012? We will be there for those. I'm not looking forward to those times when these happens, but they will happen.
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 12:30 PMI often agree with these kinds of things -- "This isn't news, there's a war on!" -- but this time, I disagree.
A NY governor went down over patronizing this woman (girl, really), and criminal charges will follow. Learning who she is qualifies as newsworthy in my book.
One of Clinton's advisors working on her finance committee blurts out racist clap-trap which takes the Clinton campaign days to renounce, and Hillary still hasn't really renounced it, and that's newsworthy as well.
Let's not minimize actual stories here.
If we were talking about some missing kid somewhere or something, or a celebrity scandal, you'd have a point. But these two scandals, these are newsworthy.
Posted by Brian Bell at March 13, 2008 12:41 PMJust yesterday, "Obama Receives Endorsement of Flag Officers from Army, Navy and Air Force". Not in the MSM however!
As Prepared for Delivery: Remarks of Senator Barack Obama Endorsement by US Admirals and Generals Chicago History Museum March 12, 2008Posted by Seven of Six at March 13, 2008 12:42 PMIt is my privilege to be joined by some of the distinguished generals and admirals supporting my campaign. They have defended the American people and stood up for American values with honor and distinction. Between them they have served nine Commanders-in-Chief, and I look forward to continuing to draw on their counsel throughout my campaign and beyond.
As as a candidate for the presidency, I know that I am running to be Commander-in-Chief – to safeguard this nation's security, and to keep our sacred trust with the men and women who serve. There is no responsibility that I take more seriously.
This is something that I’ve talked about throughout this campaign... There are real differences between the candidates, and important issues to debate – from ending the war in Iraq, to combating terrorism, to devising new strategies and new capabilities to confront 21st century threats...
After years of a war in Iraq that should’ve never been authorized...
...I will seek out, listen to, and respect the views of military commanders. Under this Administration, too often we have seen civilian control turned into an expectation that the uniformed military will be punished if they tell the President what he needs to know, rather than what he wants to hear. When I am President, the buck will stop with me, but we will restore trust and open dialogue between the military and civilian leadership.
Finally, it is the sacred obligation of any Commander in Chief to give the men and women who have served the care and support they have earned. That is what I have tried to do on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee – working to improve care and benefits for wounded warriors and their families, and to enhance screening and treatment for PTSD and Traumatic Brain Injury, the signature wounds of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As President, I will ask myself every day whether I am serving our troops and veterans as well as they have served America. That means only sending them into harm’s way when we absolutely must; providing them with a clear mission and the equipment they need to do the job; standing by them when they come home; and helping them live their dreams after they leave the service...
Obama Press Office
312-819-2423At least Obama addressed the issue.
Brian, maube we could include Sen. Obama's pastor's says too? Look them up...ABC News has an article. Astonishing...his words!
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 12:45 PMLast Sunday there were three names displayed.
One of them from AZ, on his 3rd tour of duty!!
3 are too many... time to bring them home from this war of lies!!!
Do you mean this event from Yahoo?
Could he get anymore flags in there? Seems to me he's reacting and not leading here. Where's Powell?
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 12:52 PMJust yesterday, "Obama Receives Endorsement of Flag Officers from Army, Navy and Air Force". Not in the MSM however!
Well, there you have it. Endorsed by all 10 of our Generals and Admirals.
I'll bet most of you thought we had more than just those 10. I know I did !!
Maybe job auditions!!
Posted by jj at March 13, 2008 12:59 PMSen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
Now we know why there's no lapel pin and he lacks the fortitude to honor our flag. To him they're just a means to an end, a backdrop.
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 01:25 PMI agree with you completely, Turkana. We have met the enemy and he is the media. There is only one small set of people who can COMMAND the media megaphone and they are not doing nearly enough to remind Americans that the was is NOT over.
Dozens of people are dying every single day! Our economy is hemorrhaging directly into the coffers of war profiteers and We, the people, are hearing NOT NEARLY ENOUGH from our would-be leaders. Despite some hesitant indications of a budding notochord in the House, ALL of our leadership needs to do more! Risk avoidance? That seems to be a politician's middle name.
Posted by DeminNewJ at March 13, 2008 01:32 PM"Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan kicks off in Washington, DC today, with hundreds of veterans of the two wars...to talk about what they saw, and did, in the name of America. Pacifica radio will be carrying the proceedings live beginning at 9am Eastern tomorrow morning. Audio will be streamed live from Warcomeshome.org and kpfa.org intil 4pm EST on Sunday."
"Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW; ivaw.org)argues that well-publicised incidents of U.S. brutality like the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of an entire family of Iraqis in the town of Haditha are not the isolated incidents perpetrated by "a few bad apples", as many politicians and military leaders have claimed. They are part of a pattern, the group says, of "an increasingly bloody occupation."
Winter Soldier Begins Today, Live Coverage Begins Tomorrow
Aaron Glantz, The War Comes Home, March 13, 2008
http://warcomeshome.org/content/winter-soldier-begins-today%2C-live-coverage-begins-tommorrow
Good post, Turkana. Thanks.
Posted by Pvt. Keepout at March 13, 2008 01:35 PMI just heard a soldier call into the Tom Hartman show. He said that out of the people he served with, about 2/3 are either alcoholics or drug addicts now. The other 1/3 are doing reasonably well. It's politically incorrect to talk about the spike in crime we'll probably see as soldiers return from war totally fucked up. One local Iraq veteran recently killed someone. There will also be plenty of broken families and kids raised with parents who are no longer emotionally stable. My sister married a Vietnam vet. He seemed ok, but later became an alcoholic (this was 20 years after Vietnam)--he still had demons. He died from his alcoholism and left her to raise 2 young kids. He was a great guy, but too many demons. Just another cost of the war that no one talks about.
Posted by CG at March 13, 2008 01:54 PM"Al-Magid: I have discussed some points about Al Qaeda being in Iraq for many years before 2003. This seems to only be a surprise to Americans, but everyone in Iraq knew Al Qaeda was being protected by Saddam in Iraq. The Al Qaeda people had their own mosques in Nasiriyah and only Al Qaeda could go to the mosques. One of their mosques was near the Saddam hospital that Private Jessica Lynch was being held as a prisoner.
Americans do not understand how much they helped the Iraqis when they removed Saddam.
Something that U.S. forces must understand in Iraq is that if they are speaking with someone they must be very careful. This person may be a good person, but maybe they know someone in their family who is Fedeyeen, senior Baath Party, or with Al Qaeda. One of my relatives was a senior Baath Party member, but I was not. My father was a good man and he did not want his children being unkind to anyone. He did not want us to support the Baath Party.
When my family and I helped the Americans in 2003, we knew it was very dangerous. Many Iraqis had been killed and still are for helping the Americans. Fedeyeen and Al Qaeda had tried to find us in Iraq. They had told our neighbors they would kill us. They burnt our home down. Dave Gaubatz was able to get us to safety and to the U.S. We knew they would not stop looking for us though. It was no secret to the Iraqi people that Al Qaeda and their supporters were living in America. The borders of America are open and there are people who come across the borders to enter the U.S. When I arrived in the U.S. in late 2003, it was not long before we began to be followed and then some Arabs came to our home once. U.S. Government security handled the situation for us."
FrontPage
Turkana:
You are absolutely correct that the focus from Iraq is shifted and the Democratic candidates are not talking enough about it as they should. Iraq is the weak point for republicans and they are happy to keep that out of the front page.
Do not call the tragedy in Iraq as WAR. The war was over when Bush said mission accomplished. Now it is OCCUPATION and our young men and women are dying in occupation of Iraq not in a war in Iraq. I wish Hillary and Obama understand this point and start referring it as Occupation rather than War.
This attention to Spitzer sex scandal has been a blessing to Republicans. Some potentially damaging news did not get reported as it should have been. See the following:
1)The chief of staff had to resign. He publically went against invasion of Iran.
2) The 4 year investigation of all documents obtained from Iraq, concludes that Saddam had absolutely no connection with Al-Queda and with 9/11. Remember this was the main reason given by Bush to attack Iraq.
3) A republican congresswoman stated that gays are more dangerous than terrorists.
Republicans win not because of their dirty tricks. They are also very lucky.
Posted by suresh at March 13, 2008 01:58 PMFunny suresh...keep trying.
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 02:00 PMSPOT ON...there is NO NEWS except for sex scandals and the ongoing boredom of the back and forth by busybody pundits on the campaign WAR!!! Get off tv/radio/blogs that are worthless (many of those) and READ/WRITE/TALK/THINK...all things in short supply among much of the AMERICAN PEOPLE...
Posted by Dancer at March 13, 2008 02:02 PMWell Dancer, I could have done without the Spitzer news. The whole thing saddens me.
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 02:29 PMI don't think most people think that the death toll is closer to 4,000 than 3,000. I think people just say "over 3,000" until it hits 4,000. That's why these threshold numbers become so important.
Posted by Moon at March 13, 2008 03:35 PMThere are two black Admirals? Wow.
Posted by Moon at March 13, 2008 03:38 PMpeter, Please take your pro-bu$h propaganda elsewhere! Now I know why your so full of shit!
You actually believe this crap!!
I decided to look at the link and it mentions the Winter Soldier event as:
Members of the radical group Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) are busy preparing to host a new “war crimes” conference next month in Washington. The event, billed as Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan, takes its title from the IVAW’s namesake and mentor, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). However, information has now come to light that profoundly undermines the VVAW’s original atrocity claims.Posted by Seven of Six at March 13, 2008 03:54 PMRecently discovered US Army documents offer a much clearer picture of the military’s investigations of the VVAW’s lurid allegations. Of 76 Army witnesses who appeared at the group’s 1971 “Winter Soldier” conference, summary reports of the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division (CID) investigations are available for 48. Three witnesses were not identified. The rest failed to allege criminal acts and were apparently not interviewed.
I wonder how many people being asked questions about whether the "war" (ha-ha) is "going well" think they are being asked what the media reports are currently saying---i.e are proving they are "well informed" and aware that the TV news is saying that things are "getting better"?
So a majority now think we will "ultimately achieve our goals". LOL. Thank God there wasn't a follow up question: What do you think "our goals" are? That would draw some blank stares, eh?
Since Americans don't care that Iraqis don't want us there, don't care how many Iraqis are dying, don't believe this continued "operation" merely foments more terrorists, and don't care that that the world now thinks we're shit, the only way to address this topic is to talk about what it's costing us economically---that we can't keep spending $12 billion a month there for no stated purpose without destroying the economy.
Talk economics. Talk deficits and national debt. Talk destruction of the dollar. Talk $2 trillion, $3 trillion, talk Vets health costs. And talk about what we could have done with the trillions if REPUBS hadn't erroneously invaded Iraq and pigheadedly insist on staying there.
It also would have helped if Dems had started talking about the actual reason we invaded Iraq (OIL) and why (OIL) McOld wants (OIL) to stay there (OIL) 100 Years (OIL), but Dems decided not to go there, of course, and most of the Dems who voted for the war (like Hillary) knew very well (OIL) why we were invading Iraq---and it didn't have anything to do with WMDs and "spreadin' democracy".
And it's way, way too late for the candidates to start calling it an occupation Israeli style, that path would also have been needed to be prepared by the party for over a year. Americans can't stand to be told the truth, they get "offended" by it, and most are too stupid to put 2 + 2 together. So we'll have to operate within the Repub/corporate media "frame" as usual. "war", "terror", "freedom", "success", etc.
And don't forget you're dealing with an electorate where a majority thought Bush clearly should be "re-elected" in 2004, so they aren't exactly at the head of the class, shall we say....
Posted by euzoius at March 13, 2008 05:15 PMHey Euz. it always helps to call people stupid, really gets your point across. I just listen so well after that.(Yawn)
When you have all great and smart Democrats telling you it's getting better, who needs the MSM. Besides network TV hasn't been doing too well of a job guiding people towards the light. One story a week doesn't cut it...I believe the net is more the vehicle for getting the good news out. Those allies in the broadcast media filter too much good out.there's a bunch of it too. People just aren't as naturally pessimistic as many of your far left coasters. Pardon me, but many of us like to see the good in people sometimes.
Posted by peter at March 13, 2008 06:34 PMpeter
i have rarely seen a more callous and insensitive statement that the one you dropped here in response to turkana's post (at 12:30 PM).
two men died. their lives are over. they left behind people who loved them. those people will miss them this year
]
and next year
and a decade from now
and two decades from now.
and your response is an astonishingly insensitive provide-cover-for-your-political-party comment.
not only is your comment callous.
i suspect you are callow.
it would be hard to imagine an adult who had had children saying what you said at 12:30. only an emotionally immature individual would make such a comment.
and then again, peter
there is your dismissal of suresh's comment (at 01:58 PM).
his comment is thoughtful and contains a number of important facts relating to the lies george bush and dick cheney told the american people to justify invading iraq.
your response, peter (02:00 PM).
a very juvenile
"Funny suresh...keep trying."
that is the kind of response one would expect from a high school sophomore,
high school mind you,
not even college.
i would tell you you ought to be ashamed of yourself, but it seems clear that your lack the maturity to understand your transgressions, let alone feel remorse for them.
Posted by at March 13, 2008 06:36 PMWell at this very moment the Senate is voting on an amendment on the budget resolution by Senator Demint that punishes the city of Berkeley by taking away 2 million dollars from some very beneficial programs in schools and the community because the city council dared to write an insulting letter - which they retracting and never even sent - to the Marines.
Senator Demint was just so incredibly offended and feels it is so necessary to stick up for the Marines because they, I am certain, have lost a lot of sleep over it.
What I am truly certain of is that the lunch programs and the programs for the disabled that are being cut - if it passes - will lose sleep over it.
Posted by Anjha at March 13, 2008 09:05 PM41 yeas, 57 nayes
Glad it did not pass.
I hope that Demint is ashamed of himself and I cannot believe how many yeas there were for this amendment.
Someone afraid to sign their name...great courage and cheap shots anon. Try looking past your prejudices and notice the two references to 'front page'.
"War is hell, when will it end..." Marvin Gaye
We didn't chose this war...it found us...and we'll end it as fast as possible...
Maybe anon up there might look at the peacetime losses of our military in the 90's...over 6000 GI's, at least these Service Members are doing what they're trained for and fighting the good fight.
Posted by peter at March 14, 2008 03:50 AMMy only response to pants pissing peter (and other right-wing trolls like jarjar jj) is FUCK YOU you yellow cur, you aren't worry enough to lick dogshit off the boots of our troops who bleed and die in Iraq because of Bush's LIES.
turkana: "...Little wonder, then, that support for the war is at the highest level since 2006...."
of course we know that is the Politico spewing BULLSHIT, see "The Politico claims the Iraq war will help McCain" (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/):
With very bad timing for The Politico, a new USA Today/Gallup poll was released today and here are the results for the key question:
Which would be better for the United States?
Keep a significant number of troops in Iraq until the situation there gets better: 35%
Set a timetable for removing troops and stick to it regardless of what is going on in Iraq: 60%
Posted by Gay Veteran at March 14, 2008 05:44 AMMinimize the losses, rationalize the deaths, and compare apples (accidental deaths) to oranges (combat deaths)---as though accidental deaths in the military have ceased since we invaded Iraq. Same old monstrous "conservative" story, year in, year out.
The "noble deaths" of soldiers in Iraq---that's what they "exist for", according to TLC's resident pinhead. Have your kids enlisted yet, peter? Are they going to, given your belief that our Iraq occupation will be continuing for another decade? Doesn't their militarist Dad think they should?
Peter the pinhead is a shit eater of the highest order. "We didn't choose this war....it found us..." Simply unbelievable. What must his breath be like, given the gallons and pounds of GOoPer shit he ingests weekly? A complete dead loss as a "citizen".
He (and those like him) want to stay in Iraq simply because we occupied it, and because it's his criminal political party's "position".
Posted by euzoius at March 14, 2008 05:55 AMWe didn't chose this war...it found us...and we'll end it as fast as possible...
We were lied into this manufactured "war" by bu$h/cheney. Costing us trillions, slowly killing us economically, and hopefully... people in other countries know it's ignorant republi-cons like you that have created this shitstorm!
Posted by Seven of Six at March 14, 2008 06:58 AMpeter
the post at 6:36 was mine -
orionATL.
i never avoid signing my posts.
if they are not signed
it's oversight only.
Posted by orionATL at March 14, 2008 10:57 AMEvery regular here knew it was you, orionATL, your style is unmistakeable.
Just more blather from peter the pinhead.
Posted by euzoius at March 14, 2008 12:37 PM