EriPostal,
Aside from being overly pedantic, biased and setting up more of your pro-Mrs. Clinton straw men and women:
What was your substantive point and how does it relate to important REAL ISSUES and DIALOGUE vis a vis beating McCain in November?
Posted by tfitznc at March 21, 2008 08:35 AMStill defending Ferraro, Eriposte? Wow.
Posted by Brian Bell at March 21, 2008 08:45 AMWhy not? Y'all are still attacking Ferraro. Anyone would think the woman had lynched somebody, instead of making a rather clumsy comment.
Posted by Blue Jean at March 21, 2008 08:53 AMGood post eriposte.
What all these quotes illustrate is that people can find a reason to be outraged when they want to find a reason to be outraged.
Posted by snark at March 21, 2008 08:55 AM"What all these quotes illustrate is that people can find a reason to be outraged when they want to find a reason to be outraged."
That is THE thing, isn't it?
Posted by The World's Turned Upside Down at March 21, 2008 08:59 AMThe primaries are over. On to the general.
Posted by nerdoff at March 21, 2008 09:08 AMI think B is the most condescending and possibly racist.
Posted by CG at March 21, 2008 09:27 AMAnyone who thinks Obama's race benefits him in the primaries (and that's not what Obama said) is seriously delusional - it offers him far more peril than opportunity as we have seen this last week. No doubt many more will characterize him as a Scary Black Man and try to crush his unique gift of attracting broad support from all races.
It's not about Clinton Rules vs Obama Rules. When you're talking about race, you can never pretend that the same rules apply, because blacks and whites haven't lived under the same rules for 200 years.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at March 21, 2008 09:27 AMCA Pol Junkie, well said.
The Wright eruption this week demonstrates how institutional racism works by using fear of the black man as a weapon.
Regarding the unfortunate diminution of the term "lynching" to describe criticism of Ferraro's utterly insensitive, stupid remarks, I don't have any desire to hear any more references to her and her uninformed commentary for the rest of the campaign. I'm sure that most Democrats, whoever they support, agree.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at March 21, 2008 09:56 AMOh, blah, blah, blah. Hillary is AT LEAST as handicapped by sexism as Barack is by race. And, just as with Hillary's gender, Barack's race has both helped and hurt in different demographics. Welcome to the reality-based world.
Also, IMO, Barack IS scary - not because he's black, but for lots of other reasons. Hanging out with lunatic fringe churches, denying people the right to vote in a democratic primary, smearing other demoracts, oh little things like that. But, hey, keep up the racial whining, OK? Cuz we're all just racists if we dare to criticize THE ONE.
Posted by at March 21, 2008 09:59 AMEveryone has gone batty on race.
For many years I have used ML King's wise suggestion, "Judge not on the color of one's skin, but on the content of one's character."
Is this not what Post-Racial is?
We won't get there simply by voting for Obama, we will get there, one by one, by becoming color-blind.
Take that from a proud "typical white person" who is descended from Irish, Germans, African American Slaves, Native Americans.
Thanks for having the courage to post this, eriposte.
I agree with CLK on this one. And when you rip the facade off of Barack Obama, you find....a Republican. He behaves in many ways just like one.
Another URL link is upcoming here. How many of Obama's supporters know about his personal background? No, really? What do you know about his parents, etc.?
I am willing to bet an Andrew Jackson that the vast majority of Obama-anians have not really looked at Obama that closely.
Obama has not been vetted. Time to do so.
The US media has been 100% derelict. The US MSM is notorious for ignoring fact, and hyping fiction and myth.
But not the European. Here is an article from the UK, the Daily Mail in London. This was an investigation that took place in January 2007. The Daily Mail decided to look into Barack's autobiography, and see if what he put down in the text was actually accurate. (Not about drug taking.)
And it bears repeating here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770
An excerpt:
".....
Indeed, by offering up a conveniently potted account of his personal history in this way, he might even have made a pre-emptive strike on those sure to pose the awkward questions that inevitably face a serious contender for the White House.
Yet an investigation by The Mail on Sunday has revealed that, for all Mr Obama's reputation for straight talking and the compelling narrative of his recollections, they are largely myth.
We have discovered that his father was not just a deeply flawed individual but an abusive bigamist and an egomaniac, whose life was ruined not by racism or corruption but his own weaknesses.
And, devastatingly, the testimony has come from Mr Obama's own relatives and family friends.
...."
An uninformed electorate voting == Totalitariansim
However, only one has been singled out by the Sen. Obama☼ and his supporters (and the clowns in the media) as being racist.
only one, Eriposte?
The media has been all over the "typical white woman" comment.
Dunno which media you are referring to.
On another note, is it time to get over it, finally. We can nitpick every single friggin' thing that anyone says from now to eternity that sounds racist or sexist and stay ignorant in the reality of it what it really means.
Women still earn 77 cents to every dollar that a man does. Women still are not represented by big business or government in any fair way. African Americans still crowd our jails and face harsher sentencing standards and are more likely to go to prison than college and we are wasting all kinds of energy bickering about who said what and not talking about the reality of people's lives and how to deal with it.
America sucks for women and for people of color in a whole lot of ways.
We need more people of color and women in all areas of government and business and leadership if we are to ever to become a more fair Nation that values all of its people and offers opportunity to everyone.
Getting caught up in all of this petty crap doesn't help to fix it.
Posted by Anjha at March 21, 2008 10:42 AMLook, I know that "let's beat up on McCain" is Axelrod's new talking point for his Troll Army -- hey, just a joke! Where's your sense of humor? -- but since McCain is going to beat Obama like a gong, we'd better do first things first, and get Hillary nominated. But thanks for your input, tfitznc!
Posted by lambert strether at March 21, 2008 11:11 AMFunny how Obama doesn't mention the REAL racists in his family---the Kenyan grandfather who did not want the Obama blood diluted with white blood.
Posted by MarkL at March 21, 2008 11:20 AM"Getting caught up in all of this petty crap doesn't help to fix it."
Sorry, Anjha - for me and many others, disenfranchising millions of voters is more than 'petty crap'. The malign acceptance of sexism during this campaign is more than 'petty crap'. Smearing good people with charges of racism is more than 'petty crap'. Etc.
The democratic party has no principles left that I consider progressive.
Posted by at March 21, 2008 12:06 PMFunny how Obama doesn't mention the REAL racists in his family---the Kenyan grandfather who did not want the Obama blood diluted with white blood.
Good thing we're not considering nominating his Kenyan grandfather then, eh?
I think Steve Soto should consider that comment for "stupid troll" status.
Posted by snark at March 21, 2008 12:21 PMI still haven't clicked on who said what but here's my take.
Person A is racist. Why? Because person A assumes that any black American 'comes from a place of oppression and repression.' That's a racist stereotype. Not all black people in the US live in a place which automatically causes them to experience oppression and repression. The kids of my neighbors and coworkers are doing just fine, thanks. Do they run into the odd jerk who says something racist to them? Probably. That doesn't mean they are oppressed and repressed.
Person D is also racist because he assumes that 1) it's ok to stereotype white people and 2)said stereotypical white person is afraid of black people and 'there's a reaction that's been been bred into our experiences.' First, why is it ok to stereotype white people when it's not ok to do that to any other group in society (typical black person, typical woman, typical Asian-American - those phrases wouldn't remotely be thought to be ok in any conversation). The straight answer is - stereotyping is not ok; that comment was not ok. No matter how the racist speaker tries to clarify it. I, as a white person, want an apology.
Second, I'm from Minnesota so I don't have any inbred reaction to black people (there were exactly 2 in my high school of 1700). I grew up with no opinion on the matter of race at all. Sounds utopian? But true. I got to college and was assigned a black roommate. I spent quite some time being fascinated watching my new roomie and her friends fix their hair. There wasn't a lot else that was different between us - just kids in college. I can't recall trembling in fear when their boyfriends came over to visit. Stereotypes are just so inconvenient, in that they don't apply to nearly anyone.
Posted by lizpolaris at March 21, 2008 12:22 PMWow! You are desperate! Frustrated the "kitchen sink" strategy hasn't toppled our eventual nominee? Determined to wreck his chances against McWarMonger in order to satisfy Hillary's outsized ambition?
One wonders if you're not a Republican troll. Why else continue to back a divisive candidate who has virtually no chance of winning the primary - and to do so by mimicking right-wing talking points? I guess next you'll be singing the praises of McGeezer, just as your candidate and her husband have recently done!
Posted by balthus at March 21, 2008 12:22 PMYou know anonymous, you can just make up something to type in under "name".
"disenfranchising millions of voters is more than 'petty crap'..."
I was talking about the "racist" quotes crap that goes on and on.
Methinks that you give Obama a little too much power - just how did he control the state legislatures of Florida and Michigan?
As much as I want everyone to have the opportunity to help to choose the nominee, historically, the nomination is usually over long before most states get to vote or caucus.
If you want to be pissed at anyone for the FL and MI crap, get pissed at their state legislatures, they are the ones who moved them up. They would have had plenty of impact had they stayed with their original dates.
Posted by Anjha at March 21, 2008 12:28 PMUm, Snark: I am not the one who decided to call Obama's white grandmother a racist---he is.
That's pretty horrible, considering what she sacrificed for him, but when you know that his other grandfather was a virulent racist, it really gives you pause.
Um, MarkL: Your comment is still about the stupidest, most irrelevant thing I've read on this site in a long time.
The fact that you rationalize it as sticking up for Obama's white grandmother doesn't really do anything to reduce its stupidity.
Posted by snark at March 21, 2008 12:43 PMI am not the one who decided to call Obama's white grandmother a racist---he is.
He did not call her a racist.
That is the point.
People have a lot of ingrained opinions and fears that many might not even be aware of and are not racist just because they have those fears.
The movie, Crash (which I cannot link to 'cause I always get the "questionable content" error when I try to link to IMDB) did an excellent job of exposing this.
Posted by Anjha at March 21, 2008 12:43 PMI don't see any of them as racist, but Person A is just ignorant and stupid. What has being a black Christian American have to do with so-called "moderate" Islam? What has it to do with Islam at all? How does Obama's being an African-American qualify him to say or do anything about Islam, a religion he has nothing to do with, and knows almost nothing about?
Posted by Shirin at March 21, 2008 12:50 PMSorry, snark,
Obama exposed his own racism, while calling out his living grandmother as a racist--_TWICE---for political advantage.
It's vile.
If any Clinton supporter said something similar, they would be pilloried. Obama should receive the same treatment.
Don't be sorry for me MarkL.
You're the one with problems. If I thought like you I'd not like myself very much.
Posted by snark at March 21, 2008 12:56 PMAnjha:
You're either lying or you haven't done your homework, but feel free to keep making stuff up. It's reported all over the news that Obama worked to obstruct the re-votes in MI and FL. The whole process is to see for anyone not blinded by candidate worship.
Nice talking points - blame the state legislatures. I don't think so. The re-votes had traction, and they could have worked, the only one to blame now for obstructing them is Obama. Period.
You can lie all you want - won't change the fact that he and his campaign will win the nomination with a taint of illegimitacy now. Win at any cost - nice tactics for the unity and hope campaign.
This ain't no petty crap and I highly resent people like you portraying it that way. Thanks to Obama, my vote and that of many others won't count.
That's right - signed Anon. Because you having a signature sure didn't affect your inane and dishonest post.
Posted by Anon at March 21, 2008 01:18 PMAnd another thing:
Democratic principles are way more important than the Democratic Party in the opinion of many, including me. I'm done with the Party - it now stands for the malign acceptance of sexism, voter disenfranchisement, rules over principles, and race bullying.
Posted by Anon at March 21, 2008 01:41 PMMarkL, I support Hillary, but there's no way I'm going where you're going. Time to back away, have a beer and enjoy the weekend, mmkay?
Posted by iamcoyote at March 21, 2008 01:42 PMI'm with CG on this...I think the one that is most racially insensitive to me is B...(paraphrase) for the first time he as a black leader comes not as a victim but leader... yikes.
There's a stinging backhanded compliment in there against black leaders...ouch.
Posted by emal at March 21, 2008 03:08 PMIntstead of people blasting the blog and pointing fingers about whose the "real racist", they should pay attention to WHAT THE BLOG SAYS. The bottom line is that many people have talked about race in this campaign, including Barrack Obama himself. When his surrogates talk about race IN THE SAME MANNER as a Clinton surrogate, it is ignored or they are seen as thoughtful and insightful. When a Clinton supporter says it, they are branded as RACIST. It's a double standard that needs to be pointed out and examined in a thoughtful, ADULT manner.
In a NYT piece just before he announced his candidacy(12/24/06), the Times said this:
"Mr. Obama has pointedly acknowledged that he BENEFITS (caps mine) from his race, noting last year that a new white senator from Illinois would hardly have stirred comparable interest or intrigue. So Mr. Obama has embraced his role, but he has strived to be defined by more than color alone"
So Obama recognizes that part of the interest has to do with his race but that he MUST DELIVER regardless. Funny that it sounds sort of like what Ferraro said about people being "caught up in the concept", doesn't it? The difference is, he's ALLOWED to say it, she isn't. So stop all the finger pointing, and get real.
And if people think that Black people aren't aware of "white guilt" among the liberal community and how it benefits the Obama candidacy, they are living in another universe because I've heard it discussed in a variety of different contexts within the Black community. We just tend not to discuss it openly with people outside the Black community.
Posted by kacey at March 21, 2008 04:23 PMBy the way emal "for the first time he as a black leader comes not as a victim but leader" came from Obama endorser Clair McCaskill.
and by the way tfitznc the point of the post is that the charge of racism can be leveled at anyone even when that person is not actually a racist. The Obama campaign first brought race into this contest and now, with the help of the MSM and Obama supporters egged on by the campaign, the charge is tossed around with impunity.
There are two standards in this contest. One for Clinton and another for Obama. As usual Clinton can't so much as breathe without getting mauled by the MSM through the Obama campaign.
Posted by cal1942 at March 21, 2008 05:25 PM