Greenspan is a member of the Randian cultist, and should be shunned and mocked at every opportunity. And the university of Chicago should be nuked just to be sure the ghost of Uncle Miltie can never rise again.
This idiotic free-market(yeah right) cult has been instituted in Chile at the point of a gun, in Iraq at the point of a 1000lb JDAM, and here in this country with the inevitable results now seen in each case.
Three strikes-you're out assholes. I call the utter failure of conservative economic theory. Done, over, Roseanne Barr has just sung the national anthem.
Regulation bitches. Corporations exist at the pleasure of the electorate, not vice versa.
.
Posted by SnarkyShark at March 24, 2008 06:05 PMJay-
You can wrap it up in all the shiny wrapping paper you want, its still a big steaming turd.
After we offed Allendale and installed Pincohet, uncle Miltie flew down there in person. Free-to-be-raped markets were enforced in some case by torture. When the economy went straight into the crapper, the Randians did what they always do, what you in fact are intimating. And that is to claim it wasn't taken far enough. Conservatism can never fail, only be failed you see.
The only book that needs to be read is Shock Doctrine by Ms Klien.
You're right there will never be free markets in our lifetime, because Crony Capitalism is the true goal. That and one party rule.
You can quote all the Latin you want, you're still looking at your colon and lower digestive tract.
But do go on
Posted by SnarkyShark at March 24, 2008 07:37 PMyeah, turkana.
don't let these bastards forget a single moment of incompetence or party favoritism.
like john roberts and william rehnquist at the supreme court,
alan greenspan was first,
before all other allegiances,
a republican party operative - the party's needs came first: the nation's needs second.
don't let these bastards rewrite one day of american history.
whether it's the economy
or the invasion and occupation of iraq.
don't let the bastards off the hook the forged
and, more importantly,
don't let them sell the public historical lies about what happened when and who was responsible.
glenn greenwald had a good post sometime in the last few days about a princeton dean who is trying to induce amnesia in the american historical memory regarding who was a cheerleader for the iraq disaster in 2002, 2003.
much like you, greenwald challenges the
"let's look to the future"
"that's old news"
"let bygones be bygones"
manipulation of history by folk who have screwed up.
regarding history, speaking memory, and responsibility,
one of my favorite quotes is from eli weisel, a european jew who made a point of holding germans (and poles and the french and czech's) accountable for the atrocities against jews in 1938-1945.
weisel said, roughly,:
"it's ok to forgive. but only fools forget."
that's a rule to live by,
if your survive.
Posted by orionATL at March 24, 2008 07:54 PMIn a broader sense, even though people like to find a dandy culprit when the fats in the fire, there is plenty blame for the better part of all. Anyone on board for the great goosing of the real estate market could have opted out at their choosing. States had a duty to operate banking within their borders that was sound and for the good of their depositors as well as their community. Had not Reagan divorced banking from the communities that surround them, the job of unraveling the credit system would have been tougher.
True that the Central Bank was eagerly seductive, and that Federalism broadened its reach with Bushes tax cut. But individual states could have curbed some of the excesses. How many today have predatory lending laws with teeth? A handful are trying to cobble together legislation now.
But now is too late; the time to act was earlier than Bush's disaster of a presidency. Blaming Greenspan spares others who should should share blame. Hell, lets blame Clinton and be done with it.
I hate to personally attack anyone - but Jay, your butt is like your head...
NOBODY can ever be humbled by the statistics of greed.
Here's a funky little gold-bug article - includes some ideas about Helicopter Ben (and Greenspan by default - since they don't end up being that different):
The US Fed Engineered Commodities Price Plunge
Hang up and watch Frontline: "Bush's War" Part 1 of 2.
woot!
p.s. Cheney is Satan - I would love to know what he really thinks. He reminds me of a fat bloated tick..
I did the bloody link right... but here it is in clear text...
The US Fed Engineered Commodities Price Plunge:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4095.html
Interesting link PC, thanks.
Posted by SnarkyShark at March 25, 2008 02:45 AM" ... university of Chicago should be nuked just to be sure the ghost of Uncle Miltie can never rise again."
Obama's enthusiastic supporters might want to take a look at his Milton Friedman Memorial Economics team of Cutler, Gooslbee and Liebman.
Free trade, free market one and all.
It certainly looks like we're screwed. If McCain wins; well what can we say about his top econ guy Phil Gramm. And if Obama wins the nomination we have the second coming of Milton Friedman.
That leaves Hillary the only viable option (better than Obama but not the Edwards we needed) but the DNC, the media, some a-list bloggers and Obama's supporters, especially the neophytes and those confused by politics, blocking the way.
God help us.
Posted by cal1942 at March 25, 2008 03:34 AMYeah, just look what has happened to our economy since the Democrats have taken over in Congress. The "middle class" who are depending on their 401K's for retirement are watching them shrink daily with the Dems promising to raise taxes on interest and dividends. The "investment class" or so called "rich" are putting their money in their mattresses and not investing. Small businesses threatened with higher taxes and more regulations are not hiring and are bracing for the return of every tax break the Bush Administration got through. Yes, those Dems really know how to put a halt to economic progress in this country.
Posted by sgr at March 25, 2008 05:53 AMConservatism is an utter failure but the true believers like Jay will never admit it because they can always say "we didn't go far enough". Not unlike fundimetalist rapturists in that sense. The second coming is surely following close on the heals of THE NEXT disaster! And they love throwing out the "socialist" canard as if anyone who doesn't believe in pure unfettered markets wants to emulate Maoist China or create a new soviet.
Posted by snark at March 25, 2008 06:06 AMhistory will blame Greenspan for being purely a Right Wing operative in the Enrich the Rich, Screw everyone else Doctrine. He basically sold the country on the "recession" at the end of the Clinton term to enhance the GOP Bush/Cheney slate and then continued to boost Tax Cuts for the Rich until, along with the War, it crumbled the economy. As with Bush, Greenspan will ride off into the sunset leaving a crippled country in his wake. And his wife is a shill also.
Posted by T2 at March 25, 2008 06:13 AMI was really, really angry with Greenspan when he endorsed Bush's tax cuts. He was initially against them, calling them a mistake in 2001. Then Bush called him to the Whites House and he suddenly changed his mind. Did Bush have something on Greenspan? It sure seemed like it. And it certainly fits the Bush pattern.
cal1942, Can Al Gore step in and save the Democratic Party?
sgr, you are trying to blame the Democratic control for this economy? That's a stretch. That would be stretch even for Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four!
Posted by Moon at March 25, 2008 07:20 AMThe bottom line on Greenspan is that he doesn't have a clue about what he's doing. When Daddy Bush was in office Greenspan raised interest rates when he should have lowered them thus delaying the recovery from a recession. Then he facilitated the mess we're in now by lowering rates to 1 percent and leaving them there and also putting large amounts of cheap money in circulation.
Posted by JohnT at March 25, 2008 07:45 AMThis meme about the worst financial crisis since WWII needs to be stopped in its tracks. What Greenspan is really saying is that this is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, but that is extremely unpalatable for obvious reasons. So he substitutes WWII, which brought the country out of the Great Depression. Thinking about the financial crisis in the sames terms that Greenspan really means gives us perspective on the true health of our economy.
Posted by ApacheTrout at March 25, 2008 08:48 AMHell, when I lived in Smiley, NC years ago, I met a man who claimed the Democrats started the Great Depression of the '30s here in the good old Jew Ass Aaaa. He sold Amway products, which explains his political born again detergent humor.
Maybe GWB is a fitness guru and outdoor enthusiast after all. His antics will make food too expensive to purchase and of course, affordable housing is gone with the Hoovervilles. He's starving the obese and urging everyone to camp out in tents in order to appreciate the polluted Clear Skies Initiative above them.
Posted by Jimmie Ethel in NC at March 25, 2008 09:46 AM"...individual states could have curbed some of the excesses...."
not when they were prevented from doing so by Bush's Treasury Department
Greenspan help cause the housing bubble with cheap interest rates and advocating ARMs, he should be tarred and feathered.
sgr: "just look what has happened to our economy since the Democrats have taken over in Congress"
oh lordy, those all powerful congressional Dems. Smarter right-wing trolls, please!
leave it to perfesser jay to rant about "Socialized medicine". Yeah, profit hungry insurance companies have left over 40 million Americans uninsured. Can't have "socialized medicine" like Medicare.
Jay is just like the socialists/communists: conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed
Our current economic mess is the natural consequence of korporate marxism (socialize risk, privatize profits). Libertarians rejoice at the world you have created with your childish greed.
Posted by Gay Veteran at March 25, 2008 10:26 AMA true free market is much more difficult than your dream of a pure authoritarian government that regulates everything from personal toilets to AC/Heating units to the amount of water allowed in a dogs drinking bowl.
This is the worst case of projection I have ever seen. Just incredible in its scope. Your lack of self awareness is staggering.
Posted by SnarkyShark at March 25, 2008 04:04 PM