A very sensible and reasonable post.
I expect Hillary's and Obama's supporters to unite in wanting to burn you at the stake.
Posted by myiq2xu at April 2, 2008 12:39 AMnow that gravel has switched parties, i guess i have no choice. it's down to clinton or obama, and whichever gets the nomination gets my vote.
Posted by Turkana at April 2, 2008 12:44 AMThanks Mary. Good post and oh so true.
Posted by Judith at April 2, 2008 01:39 AMAll the more reason to be party-focused instead of candidate-focused.
Posted by Susan S at April 2, 2008 02:52 AM"All the more reason to be party-focused instead of candidate-focused."
Perhaps so, but how likely is it for a Hillary supporter who has been called six kinds of SOB, or worse, by supporters of The One, to even cast a vote for prez if The One is the candidate?
How many will just leave the Presidential choice blank in that scenario?
There will be a new president in January 2009 and that person will be named either Clinton or McCain.
The One, if he is the nominee, will be ravaged by the GOP dirt diggers and beaten like a rented mule in the GE.
Posted by Bob Sakowski at April 2, 2008 05:14 AMI'm not a big fan of the supporters of The One, but I find The One himself partakes in far fewer of their sliming and flaming sins and is actually a decent guy (although less liberal than I would like). If he's the nominee, I'll tell myself that I'm voting for him and not his supporters.
Posted by scottreads at April 2, 2008 06:08 AMI purchased a "damnit doll" from a voo doo priestess during my divorce. It started out in her image but after years of pin sticking it has morphed into the porcupine of the Baskervilles.
Come to think of it, she hasn't called in years. Don't suppose these things really work, do they?
Is that Bush "flight suit" doll still available?
Posted by TIKI AL at April 2, 2008 06:19 AMAnd there's a prominant protruberance on that "flight suit" doll justa asking for a pinprick (or hundred)
Posted by Sharon at April 2, 2008 06:24 AMNice post Mary.
Good to hear from you in some other capacity than as author of those damnable open threads! ;)
Posted by snark at April 2, 2008 06:42 AMYes Sharon, codpiece piercing pins might just be the ticket!
Posted by TIKI AL at April 2, 2008 06:46 AMi will not be voting for barack obama..his campaign has been specious disengenuous and at times downright dishonest..is hillary perfect..no not by a long shot..has she made mistakes..you bet..but her health care plan is one that is universal..his isn't..no matter what bullshit he spews..which he is pretty damn good at...rezko and reverend wright.. inexperience..and a number of other things ..i believe make him unelectable..winning red caucus states is not a recipe for victory in november..liberals (which he isn't) kids ..african americans..will not be enough to elect him..against john mccain..all of the votes in this process need to be counted..all of them..and regardless of what the obama camp says ..they do not want the votes counted..a very dysfunctional democratic party ..the elitists..may once again nominate a loser..i will not be a part of it..i will spend the rest of my days..working for a third party system..
Posted by dennis at April 2, 2008 06:49 AMOy!
Posted by snark at April 2, 2008 07:00 AMDennis---you're no longer a Democrat. You're a Hillarian, but Obama is declared the "cult leader".
Oy, indeed.
Work away.
Posted by euzoius at April 2, 2008 08:02 AMVery nice post, Mary. It's gotta be a tough read, but sounds well worth it. I think I'll look it up next time I'm at Borders...
Posted by iamcoyote at April 2, 2008 08:19 AMthey don't count the votes and i don't want to be a democrat..there isn't one god damed thing democratic about that..
Posted by dennis at April 2, 2008 09:27 AMThanks for the reference. I will look it up.
It is stunning the degree to which people need to blame others. Remember the fad in the late 80s and early 90s to use "recovered memories" to solve past crimes? I knew people then who went to psychologists who talked them into believing all kinds of nasty stuff had happened to them in the past. They even went so far as to confront their supposed abusers, only later to learn that it was all imagined. In one case, a woman later decided (from another therapist) that her abuse had happened to her in prior lives.
I see dennis fully supports Bush's third term
Posted by Gay Veteran at April 2, 2008 12:07 PMthe way i see it...if you support obama..it is you who supports a third bush term...
Posted by dennis at April 2, 2008 12:58 PMCatharsis is effective and healing, when it is used by a therapist or a playwright to help those who have suffered a trauma relive emotions connected to the original injury. But you are right, Mary, to alert us to the fact that lashing out in harmful ways at others is not catharsis; and like all modes of violence it creates, or tends to create, a destructive cycle of retribution.
Neither Obama or Clinton has been guilty of the toxic speech of some of their supporters. But we have had the bitter experience of republicans who smile and make make nice, while giving the go ahead to ruthless surrogates.--those who fight in the political alleys,--so to speak.
I know that I have built up a lot of bitterness against the Clintons; but it is not derangement or sexism. I simply don't like the way they operate. I voted for Bill Clinton both times when he ran for office; but in hindsight I am disenchanted with the Clinton kind of democrat. The kind of democrat who crumbles under social values pressure or hectoring from republicans, who turns not to constructive, but pitiful compromises, and who compulsively makes deals, but is fundamentally incapable of leadership.
I quite frankly see more strength of charater in Obama, and believe in his capacity make the country a little better, and not just mop up after the mess Bush has made.
With well-placed concern for the nation's future both sides in this tight primary race have been drawn into the toxic side of argument. Both indulge in derisive and demeaning little nicknames for the opposing candidates. The ethos of "the other" has been mocked and derided; and the good faith of supporters has been questioned. I happen to believe there has been a lot more of this on the Clinton side, more smearing. But both sides have used innuendo, and have magnified picayune incidents into runaway melodrama.
I'm willing to accept my fair share of the blame for damaging the conversation; but I have been trying to practice restaint, and hope that people on the other side of this contest will do the same.
Posted by Copeland at April 2, 2008 04:30 PMIf voting AGAINST Obama as a way to send a message to the DNC that they cannot continue to nominate unelectable candidates and get my vote, then 4 years of McCain just might be worth it. Besides, with Obama's coattails Congress will be a strong Democratic majority. Right, Gay Veteran?
Posted by KathyVT at April 2, 2008 04:37 PMI would say those that support the ephemeral candidacy of Barack Obama are more than willing to risk a McSame-Bush third term.
There is always 2012 for Obama to try again when he loses to McCain. Course, then it could be a matter of fool me once.....
Posted by KathyVT at April 2, 2008 04:42 PMIt's a nice post and I've been talking to my family about cognitive dissonance in the progressive movement since early in the campaign season. It's nice to see that other people notice this as well.
Posted by kacey at April 2, 2008 04:58 PMkathyVT, if you want to vote for Bush's third term then fuck you you closet ReThug
Posted by gay veteran at April 2, 2008 06:10 PMGay Verteran, Do the Math!
A vote for Obama = A vote for BUSH McSAME
In 2000, GWB stole the election by NOT COUNTING THE VOTES.
IN 2008, OBAMA wants to STEAL the Nomination by NOT COUNTING THE VOTES.
Since the Democratic Party now = The Republican Party, the outcome is the same when you vote for Obama and I vote for McSame.
If Hillary prevails, I will vote Democratic.
KathyVT: "If Hillary prevails, I will vote Democratic."
so will I, but if Hillary loses you want to stamp your little hoofs and let let McSame win
pathetic
Posted by Gay Veteran at April 3, 2008 12:12 PMGay Veteran, you may want to look up Obama's close ties with McClurkin and Meeks, both virulently anti-gay, before you ride off into the sunset on that high horse.
But Gay Veteran, YOU ARE VOTING MCCAIN!!!
Dean was on tv the other day saying that because Donna opposed including LGBT reps as part of the DNC's delegate affirmative action program, they would not do it...
here's the link:
Posted by KathyVT at April 3, 2008 04:23 PMKathyVT, I have an extra clue that I can mail to you Ms. McCain supporter
Posted by gay vetean at April 3, 2008 07:12 PM via NYCWeboy
Hillary Clinton's remarkable interview this week with The Philadelphia Gay News, one of the best gay papers in the country; And as PGN reports, Barack Obama declined to be interviewed. As did John McCain.
Oh, but he did have a fundraiser in NYC. Kinda "in the closet" type party as no media were allowed.
Posted by KathyVT at April 4, 2008 03:34 AM