So, do you want to apply that wrong track number to Congress too? Probably not, they get a pass, they're Democrats now.
Sad thing...this incident in Texas with that cult. Amazing that with Bush/Mukasey, we have some 400 children and another 130 women coming out alive as compared to the Clinton/Reno BD Waco incident where all but 9 or so were killed. Having the locals do the inforcement made better sense here and would have been the better alternative in Waco rather than the ATF.
Then there's Elton John last night. Calling Americans mysogynist for not supporting Hillary Clinton. I wonder if he supported Ms Thatcher when she was PM?
Posted by peter at April 10, 2008 07:40 AMGeez, para, you analyze everything flawlessly until the last couple paragraphs and then conclude that Pinhead Majority (tm) (who voted for Bush a second time in 2004!) are "no longer fooled" and "see and understand very well", despite the malodorous corporate propaganda they ceaselessly gobble down from their flickering boob tubes 24/7? A press that doesn't even tell them that Bush has admitted to breaking the law! As you might say, WTF?
It turns out that an independent, judgment rendering press was essential to the functioning of American democracy because (by and large) Americans are ignorant anti-intellectuals who don't really want to know anything about what their country and government are doing. They want to "make money", drive large internal combustion engines around to no purpose, watch "sports" and shop---and that's it.
All well and good, but that doesn't support or sustain a functioning democracy, and certainly not a "superpower".
As for impeachment, it turns out that taking it "off the table" (for whatever reasons) ends up making our constitutional system unworkable when faced with a tyrannical executive who won't follow the "rules". There are many constitutional perversions Bushco has spawned, but the idea that impeachment of a serial lawbreaking, warmongering, universally hated executive "team" is simply "impossible" means that our constitution can no longer function, doesn't, and won't in future.
The credible threat of impeachment turns out to a crucial component of the system, just as the Founders intended. We have failed them, and our future. If Bush/Cheney weren't impeached, then who in God's name should be in future?!
So we're done---thanks to the corporate propaganda press created by "conservatives", the corruption of Bushco and the timorousness of the opposition to truly take the bull by the horns and impeach those who so richly and grossly deserve it. The Founders would have expected--demanded!--that Bush and Cheney be impeached for their lawbreaking conduct and would only shake their heads in disgust at our extreme political (and moral) degeneration and retardation.
Posted by euzoius at April 10, 2008 07:43 AMparadox, I'm not sure I agree that the Clinton impeachment built a shield for the GOP criminals. Lets remember that many Dems voted to impeach Clinton also. That's how the GOP did it. How many Dems do you think would vote to impeach Bush? All, down to the last one? Also it's useful to note, as you do not, that although Clinton was impeached, he was not forced to leave office. The Senate did not vote him out. He served out his term. Therefore, the "impeachment" did not remove a criminal from the presidency, as it was intended to do, and a House impeachment of Bush would not remove him either, as a majority in the Senate is now 95 votes or something like that. So it would be an exercise, the intended result to prove that Bush is a criminal jerk. We know that already, don't we?
Posted by T2 at April 10, 2008 07:56 AMTo me, an actual result of conviction is not utterly crucial. A "failed" impeachment is not worthless even in this extreme situation.
The trial would be a solemn national constitutional dragging of Bush & Co to account, a recitation of his actual lawbreaking and crimes before the country and a crucial denouncement of his "stewardship".
And the people could ultimately "decide" (by calling their senators) whether Bush merits conviction and removal from office---it's not a criminal trial. That's the Founders system. And if the Repub (or Dem) senators decide to go against the wishes of their constituents and vote not to convict, that's an important political and historic act as well, which they will have to live with.
Future presidents don't want to have to defend themselves in a senate trial seeking to remove them for their malfeasance, that's the theory anyway. Thus a trial of Bush for his crimes against the constitution and country would have enormous effect on the future and even would have a cleansing effect on the filth and lies of the present, whatever the "result".
And what else does the Congress have to do with Dr No in office for another 9 months?
Posted by euzoius at April 10, 2008 08:22 AMHow embarasing would it be to try this and fail? This Congress doesn't have the votes to even approach the idea of impeachment. I wish they would try it. It sure would turn the electorate against the leftist Democrats there. And depending on who was bringing the action, change the leadership of Congress. More Republicans would be the result. My side tried this and reaped the results, yours would too.
Posted by peter at April 10, 2008 08:43 AMAs a Republican I was really hoping that the Dem majority elected in 06 WOULD take up impeachment hearings. This would showcase for the world the wackos on the left. There is absolutly nothing on either Bush or Cheney that would stick as high crimes or misdemeanors. Just because lefty websites repeat the false allegations all you wingers repeat ad nauseaum, does not mean that you would be able to prove anything illegal. Every day on T.V. seeing a red faced Kennedy frustrated that he can't "get" those evil bastards in the white house would be priceless.
Posted by manapp99 at April 10, 2008 08:44 AMwhen impeachment proceedings started against richard nixon, they didn't have the votes nor the majority of popular opinion to support conviction. it's amazing what televised hearings and actual on-the-record testimony can do. if the bush criminals are allowed to get away with it, it will prove, once and for all, that they're right about the unitary executive- it's above the law.
Posted by Turkana at April 10, 2008 09:10 AMpants pissing peter: "So, do you want to apply that wrong track number to Congress too?"
You mean like the Senate ReThugs who block anything positive that the Democrats try to do?
euzoius: "The Founders would have expected--demanded!--that Bush and Cheney be impeached for their lawbreaking conduct and would only shake their heads in disgust at our extreme political (and moral) degeneration and retardation."
NO, they would start a second Revolution to restore the Republic.
manAPE99: "There is absolutly nothing on either Bush or Cheney that would stick as high crimes or misdemeanors."
oh really? how about war crimes, including war of aggression, murder, torture, kidnapping? how about illegal wiretapping, repeated violations of FISA?
you right-wing trolls are nothing but royalists
Posted by Gay Veteran at April 10, 2008 10:00 AM
It was intended to trivialize impeachment and render it, the SINGLE MANDATORY DUTY OF CONGRESS, ripe for labeling as a partisan act.
worked too.
woe betide us all. However, I am beginning to feel that it's best that no investigation or prosecution of these heinous crimes by the Bushies be started at this time, lest the Chimperor pardon everyone in sight.
May still happen, who knows? He commuted Libby's sentence though the man hadn't served a day, maybe der Shrubenfuehrer can pardon people who haven't even been accused.
Posted by at April 10, 2008 12:09 PM"“It’s about the lying,” - what I hear over and over from my WingNut friends and relatives is "he lied UNDER OATH". That is their lynchpin. Notice that, despite virtually all of them professing to be Uber Religious Born-Again's, not one single member of the Bush inner circle has ever testified under oath, hand on the bible. That is their understood no-no. I guarantee, no matter what ever happens to these people, Cheney, Rice, Bush,Rove, any of them, will never put their hand on a bible and swear to tell the truth. It's the bridge they know they can never cross.
Posted by T2 at April 10, 2008 12:32 PMHa-ha, I guess the trial would be a revelation for mancrapp00.
And for most "conservatives" no doubt, especially those who obtain "information" only from websites and sources that are marketed as "conservative". Constant shit-eating results in a shit-brain. Not that they would "believe" anything they heard, as a GOoP-poisoned shitbrain no longer can function as an objective reasoning mechanism.
That the Bush era will not end with an impeachment trial is a blot upon history and will result in a permanent perversion of our constitution and form of government. An impeachment trial is what the Bush Era has been logically building towards, from its very first days of stealing the election in 2000 to the endless admitted and suspected lawbreaking of late Bushism.
Posted by euzoius at April 10, 2008 12:47 PMT2, Bush and Cheney were not sworn in when they gave "testimony" at the 9/11 Commission. Gee, wonder why?
Posted by gay veteran at April 10, 2008 03:53 PMGreat post, paradox.
The closest approximation I can think of to our news media today and their goose-stepping protection of the criminals in the Bush administration is the news media in Nazi Germany before, and during, World War II, with the news media in the Soviet Union getting their "talking points" from the Kremlin coming in a close second.
The integrity and honesty that used to be core principles of practitioners of American journalism have been coopted by corporate raiders and "culture war" profiteers, as well partisan Republican hacks who don't give a damn about our country or our country's children...as evidenced by their unwavering support of the worst and most traitorous president our nation has ever seen...just as the German news media (after all the Jews had been fired) turned into a Nazi cheerleader propaganda front, and as the Soviet news media became just a mouthpiece for the Kremlin.
In other words, Faux News (the primary spinner of Republican lies and propaganda) is just as "fair and balanced" as the pre-World War II Nazi-controlled news media in Germany and just as "fair and balanced" as the Soviet news media during 70 years of totalitarian Communist rule.
So, a huge majority of U.S. citizens are no longer fooled about the real threat to and the threateners of our freedom-loving nation, and thus those right-wing Bush-asskissers who post here just keep reminding all of us of just how ill-informed and nefarious a foe all the rest of us patriotic U.S. citizens really face...and that we must remain eternally vigilant against the forces of right-wing darkness and dissemination that seeks to plunge our liberal, democratic nation into some type of Nazi or Communist-styled hell, with one right-wing-controlled media with one right-wing-controlled message.
Posted by The Oracle at April 10, 2008 08:55 PM