for any of you who are seinfeld fans, it was a pick, speaking as one who used to run with kewl kids and who used the gesture all through junior high. the pinky flip is just a diminutive version, intended to conceal the full flip. its inherent translation is "f**k you."
as far as mediamatters, i have frequently emailed them to ask wassup with their failure to document olbaman's, daily now, evening rant against clinton. silence follows.
Posted by whaleshaman at April 20, 2008 10:23 AMeripostal,
Exactly what I expected from you - nothing.
Just paragraphs of self-justifying verbal diarrhea and 'grassy knoll' BS. I guess a simple apology was too much for your fragile megalomania.
Posted by tfitznc at April 20, 2008 10:36 AMI looked at the MM photo. Two fingers are NOT touching. The index finger is down (curled and not touching). This was a rally, and using the middle finger, while curling the others to scratch would be unlikely for most people. I don't buy it.
Posted by Prabhata at April 20, 2008 10:36 AMis this all you have to comment on any more, eriposte? A gesture that hardly looks premeditated or directed? Your worthiness during the "hate Bush" period was solid. Once you transferred to the "hate Obama" period you've become simply sophmoric. And I'm sorry to see that. Do you recall the Vice President of the United States telling a sitting Senator to "Go Fuck Yourself" on the Senate floor? And you are devoting your time to a guy scratching his face? Are we going to watch Obama scratch for the rest of this campaign, or can we actually look at policy?
Posted by T2 at April 20, 2008 10:39 AM...he pinky flip is just a diminutive version...
Any illusion of sanity you people possessed is gone.
...I was also referring to some of the other body movements he used during the same speech which I did not think were particularly befitting a Presidential candidate.
Who gives a rat's ass what you think is fitting presidential behavior when your chosen earth mother goddess is discussing fucking fashion at Haverford? You really have become the poster child of inanity and irrelevance.
Posted by phidipides at April 20, 2008 10:43 AMThis finger scratch thing is the latest and most pathetic entry in a long list of petty non-issues in this campaign. Worse even than the flag lapel pin "controversy". I just can't believe it's even being discussed.
Posted by arbotreeist at April 20, 2008 10:52 AMOf course he flipped her off. Too cowardly to do it in a direct way that would hurt his precious self, but we got the message anyway. He is sooooo angry.
Petulant, narcissistic thug. Pissed off because anyone DARE make him look incompetent in a debate. Expect more juvenile thuggish behavior if he is the nominee.
Posted by hal at April 20, 2008 10:53 AMI really do believe that you all have lost your minds.
Every time I read a post like this, I hear the words "President McCain" echoing in the background.
Posted by James E. Powell at April 20, 2008 10:55 AMand as i pointed out in the comments, and as your critics failed to notice, the finger part was only one small aspect to your post. the points you were making were much broader, and based on many other things.
Posted by Turkana at April 20, 2008 10:55 AMThis is truly insanity. eriposte, you need to go detach yourself for a week, maybe go to the mountains where you are disconnected from all media. A Presidential candidate does not make obscene gestures to anybody or anything, not since Nelson Rockefeller's "defiant finger gesture," as reported in the NY Times. Okay, maybe Cheney will.
eri, you can be helped, but it's better that you help yourself. Go somewhere quiet, disconnect yourself from the media, read a book that has nothing to do with politics (perhaps a novel written at least a hundred years ago), and go out and listen to the birds singing and the brook babbling. Meditate. Empty your mind. Gain some perspective. Breathe deeply.
When you're relaxed and clear you can come back and devote yourself to getting Obama elected.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at April 20, 2008 10:57 AMThis is such small-time, trivial crap, it's embarrassing. I can't wait until Obama wins the nomination, so that The Left Coaster can return to being a blog worth reading.
Posted by buddhistMonkey at April 20, 2008 11:07 AMWait... I think Obama scratched his ass once as well... perhaps he thought that streak was Hillary!
Fucking pathetic to continue with the finger issue eRiposte and Turkana.
Steve, paradox, CAPJ help!!!
Posted by Seven of Six at April 20, 2008 11:07 AMtypical response from an intellectual fraud. Gets his ass handed to him in the debate, and this is all he can come up? Pathetic
Posted by miguelito at April 20, 2008 11:20 AMA still photo from a different angle?
No provenence on the photo?
How do we know it was even the same rally?
Notice that the people in the photo aren't cheering and laughing like they are in the video.
Camp Obama is just trying to WORM it back when they realized they were the only ones laughing.
All the fanboiz haka in the world won't convince me. I know what I saw.
Posted by myiq2xu at April 20, 2008 11:50 AMSeven of Six,
I got a specific email from a commenter asking me to correct the record based on my comments in my previous post. Even if this commenter had not asked me to do so, I believed it was important to revisit one of the comments in my previous post and acknowledge the information posted by Media Matters in this follow-up post. You may disagree with my reasoning or observations and find it "pathetic", but I was simply trying to make sure I closed the loop on this story based on Media Matters' update. Funny how people used to hate bloggers when they don't bother to acknowledge updated information.
Also, as I say in this post, there are things that are far more important to me than this. That is also why I had exactly one sentence even mentioning Sen. Obama's "behaviors" in my previous post that was fairly long and focused largely on another issue.
Posted by eriposte at April 20, 2008 12:14 PMI you want some specifics about the obama middle-finger gesture, including its sub cultural provenance,
go to NO QUARTER and read SusanUnPC's latest "obama Invokes Jay-Z...." (11:05am.)
rap lyrics are not known to be tea-party polite, but this is pretty obnoxious and juvenile behavior for a would-be presidential candidate.
[ By SusanUnPC
Site: http://noquarterusa.net/ April 20, 2008 at 11:05 AM in ABC News, Bamboozling, Barack Obama, Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Hillary Clinton, Hoodwinking, Howard Wolfson, Jay-Z
We know that — at a rally in Raleigh, N.C., the day after his disastrous performance in the ABC debate — Barack Obama gave Hillary his middle finger (reported here and here).
Then, we — particularly those of us (ahem, like me) who don’t know hip-hop music and culture — learned about another gesture Obama made in the same speech, when he swiped his hand over his shoulder. Laluchasigue’s fascinating article here at No Quarter explained the gesture, and its origin:
“Obama Invokes Jay-Z: ‘Stab the Ladies…Middle Finga To The Law’.” Laluchasigue quotes Jay-Z’s lyrics:
[Chorus: Jay-Z]
If you feelin’ like a pimp nigga, go and brush your shoulders off
Ladies is pimps too, go and brush your shoulders off
Niggaz is crazy baby, don’t forget that boy told you
Get, that, dirt off your shoulder
Now, get this Obamabot’s reaction to the gesture:
Dude, I nearly swooned — SWOONED, I tell you — when I saw that. That’s one of my fave Jay-Z joints of all time. HUGE SWIRLING VORTEX OF LOVE. I could not pink-fuzzy-heart Barack one iota more. ...]
there are also articles at correntewire about the lyrics involved in the Jay-Z rap song that obama was invoking in pantomime.
the whole point is that obama's middle-finger salute was one part of an entire context of gestures at that speech.
there really is not any doubt what he was doing.
the real question is:
why would a national candidate do that - ever?
and was deadly silent on this issue on thrusday and friday at daily kos, talking points memo, huffington post.
why weren't they loudly defending their guy?
why did obama's campaign director say, when asked about the gesture: "he's got some Jay-Z on his ipod." ?
This post is actually quite critical of Hillary Clinton, but because it first suggests that Barack Obama might be less than perfect, the Obamatrons go into gonzo attack mode. "Verbal diarrhea" ensues. It's a good thing their candidate is inevitable, or they'd really be cranky.
Posted by at April 20, 2008 12:34 PMWhatever it was-- scratching or flipping, he sure has an effeminate way of doing it. Either way, not very presidential.
Posted by oblamasnot44 at April 20, 2008 04:27 PMmydd.com on April 20th
Excerpt
"I'm sort of amazed at all the time and energy some who frequent Democratic blogs have taken to advance the idea that Barack Obama somehow flipped off Hillary Clinton during a speech. Personally, I don't care how many fingers he used to scratch his face, he could have used just his middle one as far as I'm concerned, I simply don't believe it was intended as a flip off in any way shape or form because, quite frankly, I don't believe Barack Obama would do something so immature, crass and politically retarded at all let alone in plain view. I've seen this guy in person many many times now and while he doesn't tell audiences to stop booing at the mention of Clinton's name (neither does she when her supporters boo him, by the way) his general treatment of her, even when he criticizes her, is actually quite respectful. Giving her the finger just doesn't fit into any pattern of behavior from him, nor does it make sense within the context of the sort of campaign he's trying to project that he's running. So, while I do agree his campaign has been far more negative than he likes to portray it as having been, I don't think giving her the finger on national television is really part of his master plan. Quite frankly, to even suggest that he did this on purpose I find ridiculous. But, alas, I guess those that spread the story were successful because Contessa Brewer on MSNBC reported the so-called flip off with the intro: 'wow, the blogs are buzzing about this one.'"
it was not scratching,
and it was not just flipping the bird to sen clinton.
it was dogwhistling for black votes in philadelphia
and in north carolina.
that's why the rap allusion.
obama's campaign has done this repeatedly since the day after new hampshire;
they knew exactly what obama was doing on thursday and for what purpose.
so did his media supporters. that's one reason why they have suppressed the story.
the other is so as not to influence obama's chances in tuesday's penn election.
its only the rest of the nation that does not know what obama was up to,
and will not until later.
sometimes the posters at the left coaster remind me of judy miller and michael gordon at the nitwittimes.
eRiposte,
No apology, but just a post-hoc "update" to remove the inflammatory 'bird' rhetoric in your title. CYA?
Very poor form. Where I come from you don't get to REWRITE a post after its written. I smacks of sleaziness and dishonesty.
You are not in high school anymore.
Posted by tfitznc at April 20, 2008 07:13 PMit was dogwhistling for black votes in philadelphia
WTF is wrong with you people? This is wrong on so many levels...
Seriously. The immaturity and the rock bottom vileness that people are attempting to pretend is some kind of "political discourse" has hit a new low.
The amount of hatred - and it is sheer hatred - that so many of you have towards Senator Obama is becoming really frightening. You aren't even attempting to sugar-coat it anymore. It is bubbling up to the surface and ready to blow.
It is wholly irresponsible for you guys to continue this.
I'm done.
Posted by Anjha at April 20, 2008 07:35 PM...fanboiz haka...
That you're a racist fuck is no problem with me.
All the fanboiz haka in the world won't convince me. I know what I saw.
You know, DSLRs are amazing things. Lots of storage...just point, push the button, and take multiple images. I'll repeat that...multiple images...mine pops 3 a second raw and writes from the buffer so fast that I never miss a beat.
If you've got the inquisitiveness of a small capuchin monkey you would know the photographer -a guy by the name of Zapruder, maybe- took a whole series...20 or 30 shots...of the "finger flip"...there is nothing there. In the upper right on the grassy knoll you can see someone getting ready to flip the bird, and many report hearing a finger being flipped. There really is no truth to your idea that there is a single photo, let alone a finger flip. Fertile yet disingenuous imaginations would like to make it so, but it simply isn't so.
I don't mind you being a racist asshole. Your own form of assclownery is up to you. But when your hyperbolic assumptions border on just fucking uninformed and stupid I do mind.
Posted by phidipides at April 20, 2008 08:10 PMeRi:
I respect that, in comments here, you've maintained that the reason for this post is to provide an informational update to a previous post on the question, not to necessarily persist in the accusation.
And yet you declare, "I will state here that the evidence that Sen. Obama "flipped the bird" is mixed and could be read either way." Which I take to mean that critics who perceived the "flipping directed at Senator Clinton" are justified, because the gesture could, in fact, "be read either way."
So does that same license to justifiably interpret Senator Clinton's claims about the Bosnia sniper fire equally apply to those who accused her of purposefully lying? There was no other incident with which she could have been confused. However I don't mind conceding that she may have honestly believed her story. Yet it wasn't true. So whether or not it was a purposeful lie was at least a plausible interpretation.
Perhaps I am mistaken, and missed a post, but I don't recall you accommodating that possibility with language like "the evidence is mixed and could be read either way."
I have no doubts that your heart is well motivated, but you - and others like Larry Johnson - persist in undermining your own credibility. You have failed to see your own use of double standards and cherry-picked justifications. You're better than that.
Josh Marshall and Kevin Drum and Mark Kleiman and the 200,000 people who signed the MoveOn petition are not "Hillary Haters." They are simply people with common sense who have recognized Clinton's pointless desperation, and who prefer to see the press focus attention instead towards critical analysis of John McCain.
And when you stereotypically accuse virtually all of Clinton's critics as "haters" who "suffer CDS" you effectively adopt the style of Bill O'Reilly.
Now, of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong about everything. Including my belief about your heart's motivation.
Posted by bz at April 20, 2008 08:52 PMTo the doubters: Is it just coincidence that Obama had exactly the same itch at exactly the same spot, scratched with exactly the same finger, at the exact same spot in the speech, AT TWO DIFFERENT RALLIES?
http://makethemaccountable.com/caro/Comment_080420_BarackObamaHasDisrespectedUsAll.htm
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Wow.
Will you be hosting the next ABC debate?
Posted by GreenVTster at April 21, 2008 09:43 AMSeriously, I'm no fan of Obama, but who cares. I saw the vid when it first surfaced and that was my initial response, and remains my response. In the grande scheme of things it doesn't really matter (and btw, I don't think he flipped the bird). Obama has done far more agregious things than 'possibly flippling the bird.'
As for Clinton and the MoveOn issue, I can't answer bc I'm biased. I used to support them years ago, but since 2004, I think MoveOn is pretty useless.
Posted by kacey at April 21, 2008 04:40 PM