damn, jeff- your daughter's school sounds like it could be where bush learned to speak english. that's a great opening sentence- whatever it means!
Posted by Turkana at May 5, 2008 10:34 PMLOL...no shit, Man. This whole thing is gonna drive me nuts. And as you may have guessed by now, that's quite a short trip.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at May 5, 2008 10:46 PMI think I can translate that first sentence:
"As far in any other class I have State goals that I must show that I address."
For this class, just as with any other class, the State imposes certain goals, and I am required to demonstrate that I have met those goals.
Gosh! I didn't realize that among my talents is an ability to translate analphabet American so-called English.
And this woman is, I assume, a college graduate? My god, this country is in trouble! I have been back in the USA for 48 hours, and Syria is looking more and more alluring. At least there they do not have analphabet people holding college degrees! In fact, the average Syrian primary school graduate could write a more intelligible sentence than that.
Posted by Shirin at May 5, 2008 11:10 PMPS This teacher sounds like a real dolt, and I, for one, would not let the issue go. If it were a private school I can all but guarantee that if you pursued the issue correctly and diligently that teacher would be gone by next year. With a public school it is not so easy, but I would not give up.
Of course in the case of your daughter presumably you can work within the family to counteract any negative influence this little project might have, but how many other kids might be damaged?
Posted by Shirin at May 5, 2008 11:24 PMoy w/ the poodles already!
what a dismissive response!
i applaud you for confronting this. there is far too much shaming out there, and it is about time someone stood up and said as much!
i hope you press the issue further, as the Vice Principal should have also addressed you on this.
i am all for teaching the food pyramid and proper nutrition and fitness, but this project does neither. if setting goals and accomplishing them is the primary objective, then everytime a kid (let's not forget boy's wrestlers, who make up a good chunk of eating disorders in teenagers, though not as many as there are girls) barfs up their processed school lunch or passes out from not eating at all, mission accomplished.
i hope that was coherent.
thanks for posting the follow up!
Posted by ouyangdan at May 6, 2008 01:42 AMI must say it seems you are over-reacting. Some suggestions:
1. Call the teacher and have a conversation instead of trying to resolve this by writing. It will be quicker and allow better back and forth.
2. Don't ridicule the teacher ON THE INTERNET for an obvious typo in the first sentence. Seriously, the crime does not fit the punishment. I am not a teacher but I have great respect for them and give them the benefit of the doubt which you are most definitely not doing.
3. There is an epidemic of obesity in this country that is reducing the life span of Americans as well as overall quality of life. This project is obviously an attempt to address this very important issue. We have all seen the middle school kids that are already so obese they are in danger of suffering from obesity-related health issues all their life. It makes sense to have early intervention and to make these kids as well as their parents aware of the great importance of addressing these issues. Perhaps you do not agree with how this teacher is implementing this project. TALK TO THE TEACHER instead of standing on the sidelines and throwing spit balls. Make suggestions for improvements, voice your objections.
To me, you sound like a WATB.
Posted by alizonia at May 6, 2008 03:24 AMThe teacher is doing these kids a favor, and their parents, too. Kids should have a clue about normal body weight. There are way too many fat kids in this country and it's a crisis. It may not be popular to say so, but a lot of kids are not learning how to eat properly at home. Certainly it would be inappropriate to ridicule individuals for their weight. However, it is also irresponsible for someone charged with teaching kids health to completely ignore the drastic, negative consequences of poor eating habits. At least this teacher is trying something. Instead of complaining, you could reinforce what you find useful in her messages and ignore the rest. I am not a teacher, but when I read about unreasonable parents like you, I pity what teachers have to put up with.
Posted by SheRa at May 6, 2008 04:06 AMAlizonia is being needlessly confrontational but I do agree with her about one thing: start personally and not in writing. Don't jump the gun. Not that what this woman isn't doing isn't wrongheaded and harmful but she may not be able to implement her orders any better. Far better to get her on your side as you move forward with this than to start out by attacking her in print (not here where she won't see it but in a letter to her).
Here's my take on it: the "epidemic of obesity" is not really all that epidemic or, if it is, it can't be dealt with in this wholesale way by targeting 12 year old girls. Especially not by public schools who have consistently eliminated healthy food choices from their lunchrooms and healthy gym classes from their days.
My own daughter does ballet. Last year her (private) ballet school took an entire day for all the classes and had a very carefully thought out series of speakers on nutrition *and* body image, issues in health care (how insulin works in your body and why, from a dancer's point of view, a steady rate of consumption of long lasting foods rather than quick surges of "high energy" foods is the way to go). Things like that. My then 10 year old daughter learned a lot about vitamins, vegetables, whole grains, her body *without* being asked to weigh herself or think about her own body particularly, or to begin a lifelong and to my mind unhealthy fixation on the body as product.
This isn't rocket science, but it may be completely mysterious to the gym teacher. I suggest you do some serious reading, search the net for easy and useful lesson plans on weight/health/nutrition and approach both the teacher and the principal about creating a better lesson plan/program for all the girls. One that shifts the burden from the "perfect body" to the "healthy body" and from obsessing about body fat (just as they are hitting puberty for g-d's sake) to enabling them to find time for excercise and activity.
aimai
Posted by aimai at May 6, 2008 04:18 AMoh, and my bet is neither alizonia nor she ra are parents of girls or they would realize that there's no way in hell that a 12 year old girl who is overweight either *doesn't know it* or *can do anything about it* without starving herself. If the lecture were for parents, who by the way are still very much involved in their children's food and activity "choices" I'd be one hundred percent behind it. But to do this to vulnerable teens at one of the most self conscious times of their lives is to set them up for a lifetime of bad food choices, not good ones. Binge dieting and fantasies about the perfect body are as harmful to girls as obesity or, more likely, chubbiness as they enter puberty.
aimai
Posted by aimai at May 6, 2008 04:22 AMJeff,
I think you're being too hard on the teacher. A public school teacher's life in the era of NCLB is extremely difficult, not to mention financially unrewarding. (and in the classroom, you get what you pay for)
Until we change our society, all the nutrition lessons in the world won't solve our obesity/eating disorder problems--and obesity IS an eating disorder. I don't know what the answer is, but please try realize that most teachers are struggling to do their best under very trying circumstances.
Posted by Susan S at May 6, 2008 05:15 AMAt first I thought her response was ok--that she was not doing anything to embarrass the students. But then I read your original letter to the teacher and found out the kids were asked to track calories! That's outrageous and obviously had a negative affect on your daughter since she was freaked out by not having the calorie count on pizza. So yes, I agree something should be done to stop this.
It is reasonable and good to teach about nutrition. But body fat and weight--it needs to be handled differently. This is also an age where many kids put on weight before they shoot up, so they may be a bit overweight for a little while before a growth spurt in height. They really should not be talking about body fat at all. Just nutrition, heart rate and maybe body image and how everyone is built differently.
I'd follow up. Regardless of whether there is any embarrassment, the calorie counting and body fat calculation have to go.
Posted by CG at May 6, 2008 05:23 AMLink works fine for me. You're definitely going overboard.
Posted by matthew at May 6, 2008 05:56 AMI'm in agreement with those people here that you need to have a conversation with the teacher and/or the vice principle personally. You'll get further along. However, when you do you need to be specific about just what parts of the lesson plan and project you disagreed with and why...and be specific about what parts you agree with and why? You have to go in there and be willing to listen and hear the other side too. As I said in my first comment from your previous thread, I believe there is some merit to the program and the awareness she is bringing to children But perhaps she is not implementing it in the best fashion. Or are you upset about the whole idea of this concept and think it should be stopped?
I know you are upset Jeff, but really you can't go in there all guns ablazing expecting to get her or the school on your side in moving forward on this issue. She and they are not against you... honestly. You'll get further along in this if you can come in more as an very interested,concerned parent and that you are willing to work with them and listen to their side on the issue instead of just demanding and complaining. Plus, as my boss says to people, don't just come in to me complaining, offer me some alternative solutions and how it may work better. You need to come in and discuss the issue and not be attacking. You need to be able to calmly articulate and voice where you agree with the lesson (if there is any), voice where you disagree and why. Voice some alternative ideas if you have any. Since it appears that some of your major concerns has to do with body image and eating disorders ask her what the school psychologist or school nurse feel about the issue? Should they have some feedback on this??? Just go into this face to face meeting seeking to work together on this (not against)them ....if not to help this year but in at least future years. You are a very important partner in the education of children in public schools, not an adversary...honestly.
Again, I'm not at your child's school so I don't know the whole story, the players involved and the dynamics of the whole issue. I hear bits and pieces of it at times, but sometimes we are hearing it through your filter.
Lastly, good luck and hopefully you can get your concerns addressed. Thanks for keeping us updated...and hope you continue to do so.
Posted by emal at May 6, 2008 05:59 AMGive me a break. If you realized the amount of poison you feed your kid every day you should be grateful the information your kid's PE teacher is giving your child. I got this information when I was in college, playing football. Up until then, no one ever taught me the importance of calories in, calories out. If you have a problem, sit down with your kid's PE teacher and gain some information yourself. Obviously you are as ignorant as the rest of overweight America. Take a look around, the rest of the world doesn't have fat kids. We do. To be honest, I think your post is impossibly ignorant. Just because someone is trying to keep your kid from getting diabetes (you realize diabetes comes with the possibility of having your feet amputated, blindness, erectile dysfunction, and in general being the fat kid) doesn't make you a bad parent, just one that cares more about themselves and not their child. Grow up and get to work with your kid and the PE teacher before your child's eating habits mess with their self esteem and their ability to be accountable for their own actions, instead of blaming everyone else.
Posted by Chris at May 6, 2008 06:13 AMEducating her students about nutrition would take knowledge of the subject. Filling in charts related to weight is an activity anyone can do.
Really, in a country where even MD's are taught next to nothing about nutrition and hospitals notoriously feed their patients junk, why would we expect a PE teacher to be educated on the topic. No wonder she's defensive.
She would probably get in as much trouble teaching real (as apposed to corporate defined) nutrition as she is for passing on corporate sponsored stereotypes to children.
I feel for her, but that does not mean I think she should be indoctrinating the young in the concept of a mythical ideal weight.
Posted by gail at May 6, 2008 06:22 AMJeff:
I would not be so hard on the teacher and I don't agree that kid self-esteem is the issue.
The only thing I detected from a quick scan of the Illinois fitness objectives (at the website she noted under the heading Physical Fitness in either PDF or some MS format to view) is that the teacher seems to be teaching at the high school level which does appear to include --or could include--the assignments given.
Posted by gtash at May 6, 2008 07:34 AMJeff, sorry to say this not having met you in person but you are a pompous ass acting under the guise of a concerned parent.
"I would like this program justified, though I cannot think that could possibly be done."
"I am incredulous, and I'm not stopping with this e-mail. I write fro a nationally-read blog that deals in politics and culture, and am outlining an article about this project to be posted on the site. I'm not sure about a letter to the editor of the (local newspaper) at this point, I'd like to wait for a response."
You certainly have a nice and open way of engaging with the Vice Principal. Your letter probably got the same response as me calling you a pompous ass.
I was unable to find the links to the websites you reference so I wasn't able to look at the information. (I could just need more coffee).
Obesity and anoxeria are serious health problems. And should be treated as such.
As for points in your letter, getting upset because your daughter couldn't find nutritional information on the pizza box seems like a perfect teaching moment. I am sure that you heard of a thing called Google. You could spend a little quality time with your daughter looking these things up, passing your family values along to her.
Instead, it seems you would rather hyperventilate. Now where do you challenge what the version of an "ideal" weight is -- is the ideal weight for a 12 year old girl listed on the site medically invalid? Instead you go on a rant about the dangers of eating disorders.
I think you are writing to the Vice Principal because you feel impotent to write to the editors of Glamor, Vogue, Cosmopolitan, etc.
I suggest you take a nightly walk with your daughter and instill in her healthy habits and your love for her just as she is.
I don't think you're over reacting. I might agree that there could be other ways to approach the teacher that are better, but on the issue of what the teacher is having the students do, I would probably be at least as upset. In fact, my first reaction was that I'd inform the teacher that my daughter was not going to be doing this work, and I would start trying to get other parents who were upset with the project to also not have they children do it.
As to the risks of obesity, it may be true it is too high and there are medical issues, but a lot of what is put out as being purely medical is actually societal beauty standards masquerading as being about health. These days the push is that its almost as bad to be "overweight" as "obese," but I've seen research where actually the best range for health was what is considered overweight.
Also, you really can't measure percent of fat by those look up tables from weight and height. The only way to really measure it is with calipers.
I think teaching about nutrition is good, but personally I'd feel horrible if I ate the way the food pyramid suggests. Eating too many carbohydrates makes my stomach upset. Which I suppose points out how what is the best for health is individual.
Posted by cindy at May 6, 2008 08:07 AMYou are definitely not over-reacting. To the people claiming that obesity is a problem, and teaching people about "ideal weights" is the solution, you should know that for decades scientists have been trying to figure out how to get people to lose weight and to keep it off. They've tried programs with kids, with teenagers, with adults, they've tried low-fat, low-calorie, and low-carb, they've tried exercise. Over and over they find that, no matter what method people use to lose weight, between 90-96% gain it all back, often plus more, within 5 years.
Kids and adults should eat lots of fruits and vegetables, avoid eating too much sugar, and get lots of exercise. That is to stay healthy and avoid diseases like diabetes. That is not to lose weight, because most of us can't lose weight and keep it off long-term.
Posted by rosmar at May 6, 2008 08:49 AM[here from Shakesville]
I agree that playing nice might get you further than mean, but definitely stand your ground. Ask for a meeting with the Principal and teacher, bring some data on eating disorders in that age group, why BMI is crap, how bodies are different. Gina Kolata's book Rethinking Thin is a good source to photocopy things out of, and the NY Times archive has a lot of good articles on the non-link between health and calorie intake (many also written by Kolata). You could even offer to come into the class and do a guest lecture on health and food choices, which the teacher may jump at. Lots of luck to you, and kudos for not letting this go.
Posted by car at May 6, 2008 08:53 AMJeff,
I've worked in the public school system and I don't think you're overreacting at all. Laziness and the desire to hold your personal views above what's best for the children are pretty rampant.
I do think however that following up in person, being persistent, getting a group of parents together, and presenting healthy alternatives to this assignment will be the only way to make any progress. In the meantime I would also insist that my daughter not participate in this ridiculous "project." Standing up for her like this may or may not embarrass her right now but in the long run it will teach her that you love her, that she can depend on you, and that she shouldn't blindly follow authority.
Posted by Rachelgbd at May 6, 2008 08:54 AMI do not believe this project is appropriate for a Phys Ed class. It sounds like a Health class project to me, and a badly planned one at that. Considering the sensitive nature of the information that is being shared (regardless of the teacher's assertion, kids will find out), I would think parental consent would be warranted. If this is indeed the result of trying to meet some sort of requirement, it needs to be reassessed. The school year is coming to an end, so I don't know what success you'll find for your daughter's class, but hopefully you can get the school and teacher to make changes for future classes.
Posted by liberalandproud at May 6, 2008 08:56 AMI don't think you're overreacting, Jeff. People that are stating self-esteem isn't the issue have, IMO, forgotten what it's like to be a kid that age. Self-esteem is the only issue to a kid that age, although they don't necessarily recognize it as self-esteem. Usually you just hear "my life is ruined!"
When there is a "display of results," the potential for peer humiliation is very high, and I don't fault you for being upset. It's not that they're trying to teach about nutrition or encourage good eating habits, it's about the potential for public shaming.
Posted by Paul the Spud at May 6, 2008 08:58 AMpopping over from shakesville...
i don't have time right now to read all the comments but with that in mind, i will say two things. first, you are so not over-reacting. bravo for taking these "educators" to task (i include the PE teacher and the administration). also, i disagree with calls to take this up "personally" over the phone. letters are effective, for one, because they are *in writing*. there is a record of your complaint that would not exist otherwise. keep fighting this.
Posted by DerelictDaughter11 at May 6, 2008 09:05 AMI wrote the original e-mail to the school to express my displeasure with assigning an "ideal" weight and percentage of body fat to 12-year-old children. This is an age where bodies are constantly changing and going through puberty, and one in which kids are becoming very uncomfortable in their own skin. I stand by my objections to the project.
After the first post, many readers urged me to report on the response, so I did.
I'm sort of shocked at the comments today. I'm seeking editorial guidance about the wisdom and indeed the ethics of posting the letter instead of a summary.
My child is very healthy. My concern wasn't only for her but for all of the children involved.
I am actively involved in the school year. My wife and I volunteer when asked, and I regularly praise teachers (in writing and face-to-face) when they deserve it. The same day I sent this note to the VP about the gym class, I sent one praising the Music teacher for doing such a great job in her first year at the school. I've had many meetings and discussions with the Math teacher, that are very friendly and respectful, and even though I may disagree with his grading system or whatever the case may be, we invariably end up laughing about his being a Packers fan or something. This is only the 2nd time since my two schoolchildren started that I've had a problem of this magnitude.
My tone in the note may have been harsh, but I was very upset. I may soon be meeting with the VP and/or the teacher, my friend is calling to set something up today.
I greatly appreciate the value of teaching nutrition and exercise to all ages of children, and realize the importance of the education starting at home. My wife and I have discussed the values of everything we eat in our house, good or bad, even we're enjoying a handmade milkshake or what have you. "This is a treat, but you really shouldn't drink one every day, any of you know why that is?" Stuff like that.
I'm sorry you all take such offense at my actions here, but I want the objectionable portion of this project removed. I originally printed my letter for advise, and though I did receive some, the vitriol I've received makes it not worth it overall. Please enjoy the rest of the better posts on this site and let's all move on.
Posted by Jeff Dinelli at May 6, 2008 09:11 AMYou are not overreacting. The naysayers here are simply wrong.
Do not let the administration get off the hook. I agree with others that you get a group of concerned parents together and get a meeting with the administration and the teacher after collecting information proposing a better plan. If the state does mandate certain things and those are wrong, then you may need to contact your state representative(s) to get things changed so the school will feel comfortable implementing changes.
A last resort: get a doctor to write a note explaining the physical and mental risks and remove your child from the class or activity. That may even be a first resort, since this is liable to drag on and on and the thing will likely be finished and have done its damage before you can get a change.
Posted by Dean Lewis at May 6, 2008 09:12 AMJeff - I was in middle/high school not so long ago, and we did have state requirements about learning to set goals, track them, etc. with knowledge of physiological systems.
We tracked the number of hours of sleep per night and our resting heart rate. Last time I checked, getting more sleep per night in high school was a GOOD thing, that led to better focus and attention in schools. Tracking resting heart rate is a good way to measure physical fitness, and doesn't really contribute to a negative body image the way obsessively tracking weight can at that age.
These are both metrics that you can suggest to the school to meet their requirements. Also, I don't think you're over-reacting. As someone who struggles with an unhealthy relationship with food, teaching young girls to consider the number of calories above every other measure of the healthiness of a food option seems rather negligent.
Posted by Sarah at May 6, 2008 09:19 AMGive me a break. If you realized the amount of poison you feed your kid every day you should be grateful the information your kid's PE teacher is giving your child.
[...]
Obviously you are as ignorant as the rest of overweight America.
Wow, assume much?
I say press on, Jeff. There needs to be some dialogue on this program and not just hiding behind ambiguous "requirements".
Pressuring kids to obsess about their appearance before they're even done developing physically is going to do far more harm in the long run than if they have a few extra pounds.
Add that to the unrealistic body images that girls and young women -- hell, all women -- are taught to aspire towards (hey, guess what? Being so thin that your ribs are sticking out isn't that much healthier! -- and you have a recipe for disaster.
(BTW, the link works for me: http://www.isbe.state.il.us/ils/pdh/standards.htm)
Posted by Jay in Oregon at May 6, 2008 09:31 AMJeff, having read your orginal letter, I have to say you are NOT overreacting.
the fact that your (12!!! year old) daughter is obsessing over the calorie counts on a slice of pizza.. gah
PE *should* be a place where kids learn fitness and healthy choices to make for their lives.. and this is NOT the way to go about it. :/
Posted by JoAsakura at May 6, 2008 09:37 AMJeff, Although I may disagree in some respects here (and I realize I don't know the entire story), I encouraged you to pursue this issue. I think there is a solution here and think you may get a better response dealing with it in person and coming up with some viable alternatives. Write down your bullets for the meeting (if you haven't already done so). You do appear angry and said so in the original posts.(although your last comment here in the thread you appeared a bit less so). I have found that sometimes is not the best time to meet with people or if I know I'm upset I work like crazy to remind myself during those situations not to let my emotions get the best of me...especially when I'm trying to work toward a viable solution. Please keep us updated and best of luck...and I mean that sincerely.
Posted by emal at May 6, 2008 09:38 AMJeff,
As a response to all those who are urging you to be a little easier on the teacher, I say bullsh*t. I grew up in a family of public school teachers (both parents, grandmother, aunts, cousins, uncles, you name it), and I'm in Texas, where, even prior to W's genius programs, it was pretty damn hard to be a teacher and actually TEACH. There are times when it is perfectly appropriate to jump all over a teacher, and this may be one of them. I'm not saying you shouldn't use tact or diplomacy, but she's not being totally up-front with you about aspects of your child's education. I know she can't control what the state mandates, but she can control how she communicates those guidelines to you and your child. The VP and the teacher need to talk openly and truthfully with you, rather than giving you the run-around. Even if every letter of this assignment was handed down from the state educational fools, the school's major responsibility is to make that as clear as possible to you and not hide behind those issues.
Good luck.
The dismissive attitudes of the "obesity epidemic" obsessed are part of the problem. Don't let them discourage you! Just like the PE class lesson, they are sending harmful messages, shaming and stereotyping those who have the audacity to not conform to their expectations.
Posted by Astraea at May 6, 2008 09:49 AMHi, Jeff,
I saw this originally on Shakesville. Full disclosure: Before kids I was a freelance writer who did a lot of food/nutrition stories. I also speak as a mother of two daughters, age 10 and 6, who eat about the way most kids eat (i.e. some healthy stuff, some regrettable kid staples like Kraft Mac /Cheese and the occasional piece of utter crap). They are of normal weight for their heights (according to the pediatrician, anyway) and quite fit. We did a 10-mile bike ride last Saturday together so the Kraft Mac hasn't completely poisoned them.
1) You are not overreacting.
2) The naysayers are missing an important distinction: This teacher isn't just teaching healthful eating guidelines, she's telling the kids to monitor and report each bite they eat -- can we say intrusive, anyone? (BTW, I love her assertion: "I do not tell the students to change their eating habits, in fact I told them not to change the way they eat for this assignment." How spiffingly sporting of you, PE Teacher! Are you going to track 'n' share your food intake, too?)
3) Kids can be amazingly literal, and if these programs are not carefully presented and thought out, they can indeed do harm. Kids often don't get nuances, and they are always, always convinced the examples quoted refer to them personally, especially if their teacher is quoting them. This is a huge pitfall when talking about nutrition and food, topics that even the experts find full of gray areas and contradictions.
Example: My kids' school did a Healthy Kids kind of program a few years back. It was not nearly as heavy handed as what this teacher is pushing -- it was more along the lines of emphasizing general good nutrition and pointing out the dangers of obesity. It also pointed out that water is probably the best thing to drink when you're thirsty. So what next? My older daughter swears off milk because she was concerned it "had too many calories" and would make her fat. I had to get in the trenches with the info about bone density/calcium/etc. etc., plus point out repeatedly that we drink skim milk anyway. I can't tell you how much I hated this very well-meant little program by the time this phase ended.
And anyone who thinks the program Jeff is referencing might actually compel a child with poor eating habits and an unhealthy weight to change her/his ways, well, all I can say is you don't know how kids -- or grownups -- tend to work at all.
4) Going forward, I'd suggest the following:
-- Keep taking it up the chain of command. If the assistant principal ducks you, then you go to principal.
-- After that you can go to the district level. Depending upon how your district structures things, there could be a supervisor of curriculum, for example, who could give you a more informed perspective on the assertion that this program is mandated by state guidelines.
-- State curriculum guidelines are also public record, of course, as you've noted, and usually the best thing is to just get the exact wording downloaded and ask the school staff to clarify how exactly this particular program is fulfilling it.
-- If you are not the only parent bothered by this a group approach is even more effective. Is there a class phone list you can work to see if anyone else would be interested in setting up a meeting with school staff to discuss this?
I totally disagree that it's an overreaction or counterproductive to call this one out. It sounds like an utterly stupid curriculum unit, however well-intentioned. I'm almost wondering if somebody got a grant that was burning a hole in their pocket so they slapped this one together. Sometimes that's how dumb programs happen.
Good luck.
Posted by Elisabeth at May 6, 2008 10:01 AMI got this information when I was in college, playing football. Up until then, no one ever taught me the importance of calories in, calories out.
I'm just going to take a second to laugh hysterically at this.
If we're dealing in anecdotes, how about mine -- my mother didn't wait for my school PE/Health class. She put my-(approximately normal-sized, if the pictures can be believed)-self on diets starting at the age of seven.
Being healthy is great. Encouraging activity and exercise is definitely important. Eating healthfully is terrific. But teaching kids to police their bodies, that their bodies are the enemy, ESPECIALLY at an age where self-esteem can be so fragile and personalities so fluid...
Not cool. Not cool at all. And thank you, Jess, for not just accepting it.
Posted by Electra at May 6, 2008 10:13 AMThis "project" is wrong-headed and potentially harmful. You are NOT over-reacting, and I am rooting for you in this fight.
This response was, I suspect, a bunch of posturing hogwash intended to try to make you "go away."
I have a bit of sympathy for the teacher - not only is her teaching ability being called into question, but I would not be surprised if this project were based on a lot of very closely held presumptions on her part. Let's face it - there are M.D.'s (i.e. people with a lot more education about the human body than a PE teacher) out there who believe whole-heartedly in all the supposed "dangers" of obesity.
I don't know this teacher, but I would be very surprised if much of her self-esteem comes not only from her career as a teacher, but from either her own thinness, or from a continued effort to achieve societally approved thinness.
What you're questioning is not just her abilities as a teacher, but probably a big part of how she feels about herself as a woman as well.
So, like I say, I have a bit of sympathy for her. However, that doesn't make her any less wrong in this case, and the mental and physical health of her students is too high a price to pay for this teacher's ego.
I'm sure she means well, but the fact is she is badly misinformed by the fat-hate prevalent in our culture, and is passing this misinformation on to her students. Other commenters have said this is not about self-esteem. Yes it is. This is about a teacher sacrificing the self-esteem of a whole class of girls in order to shore up her own.
Don't be surprised if you wind up with quite a fight on your hands, Jeff, but keep it up. The stakes are worth the trouble.
Posted by Thorn at May 6, 2008 10:13 AMApparently I can't tell my s from my f key.
Sigh.
Posted by Electra at May 6, 2008 10:16 AMI've already responded to your letter, posted on Shakesville, but let me say again: I, personally, went through a class very similar to this. To this day, I struggle with disordered eating, and to this day, I still believe it was that particular class assignment that triggered my later struggles with anorexia-- it allowed me, in the guise of an "assignment" to go from THINKING about counting calories and "dieting," to actually doing so. It quickly spun beyond my control, and I suffered for it. I'm still struggling with simple things like picking up a sandwich when I'm hungry, without counting calories or second-guessing myself afterward.
I second Elisabeth's comments, and urge you to please follow up with this. You are not overreacting at all-- if anything, you're showing admirable concern for all parties involved. Your child is affected by this. You are acting as an informed parent, and you have every right to do so.
Please keep us updated.
[Also visiting from Shakesville]
Jeff, thanks so much for providing an update on this. Don't be discouraged by the negative comments above -- for some people, when the topic is weight issues, the claws come out indiscriminately. Concern trolls suck, but don't let them get to you.
I think you've handled this very respectfully and diplomatically. This teacher is full of shit, and as someone pointed out above, is probably a concern troll herself who is holding her own view of fat = bad above what is good for her students. Please keep after this. I think putting together a group of similarly-concerned parents and sending a group letter, along with a request for a meeting with the teacher and the administration, is a good next step. Good luck, and thank you on behalf of fat-shamed kids (and former fat-shamed kids) everywhere!
Posted by Danielle at May 6, 2008 10:22 AM"The first thing you may realize is that her "link" gets you nowhere."
The link works for me. Try it again so you have the Standards she mentions and then have that as back up when you go to the principal/administrators.
Posted by Xda at May 6, 2008 10:23 AMThat letter is just dripping with a defensive, bureaucratic, authoritarian, "I'm the expert so stop questioning me" tone; I can understand why it set you off.
I would probably tell my child to lie on the assignment, but I'm not sure what overall message that might send... I don't know. The teacher sounds stupid, basically, and I find it's easier to play along with stupid while protecting your vulnerable spots (ie, lie) rather than try to apply reason.
If you've had better luck with the vice principal, then I'd focus on her. Or if you're a better human being than I am, then presenting the gym teacher with an alternate curriculum, as others have suggested, may be the way to go -- make it a simple "Do this instead" thing.
I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. How infuriating.
[From Shakesville]
I don't think that you're over-reacting in the slightest. That's a strange assignment, possibly, no, strike that, probably damaging to the self esteem of your kiddo and several other kiddos as well. I've got a 4 year old and find myself hoping that you'll keep reporting on this so that, heaven forfend, something this dumb comes up at my school, I'll have some good ideas on how to fight against it.
Posted by TinaH at May 6, 2008 10:48 AM[I posted over at Shakesville too, and I have to credit Carol for saying this first]
I've been wondering if this violates FERPA or any medical privacy laws. You might consider checking on that.
On a personal note, if someone had tried to do this in any of my classes, I'd have flat refused citing medical privacy. But I was one of those "too smart for her own good" types. :)
Posted by Jude at May 6, 2008 11:41 AMJeff, again, I am absolutely amazed at some of the vitriol and ignorance posted here (and on the other thread.)
First of all - these are not college kids, these are 12-year-olds (even if they were college kids, I still have a problem with counting calories = a good way to deal with weight issues.)
You are absolutely correct and you are doing the right thing and letter writing is good. It would also be a good idea to keep a log of any conversations that you have had with teachers/admin/other parents.
Talking in person sometimes does not have any effective results when dealing with people who think that they have power and do not respect the intelligence and thoughtfulness and power of the person they are dealing with. In this case, the parents have the true power.
Again, the assignment deals with BMI (which does not mean shit at this age [if it even means shit at adult age] because these kids are in the middle of growth spurts and their heighths are not static.
The assignment also deals with calorie counting which is the most dangerous thing to introduce to kids who are on the precipice of falling into eating disorders. Anyone who knows anything about anorexia and bulimia knows that counting calories and obsessing over calories is a huge part of the disease.
Eating disorders also have a lot of root in being powerless and feeling powerless over one's existence and destiny. These feelings are hallmarks of adolesence.
My guess is that this teacher suffers from her own eating disorder, powerlessness and body image issues.
There is simply no excuse for doing this to 12-year-olds.
My experience with public schools (both working in them and dealing with them as a parent of a 12-year-old) is that they respond to nothing as quickly as a contact from state Senators and Representatives. If you have contacts with your local Reps, it would be beneficial to get them involved so that there is some power to change this particular curriculum.
In reading the teacher's response, she said "goal" about 20 times. Again - what is the goal? To count calories? To lose weight? To gain control over ones body (because it is this separate thing that demands control over it)? To win at having the best BMI? What is the goal?
It does not seem that there is a healthy goal at all.
It is great to teach kids about nutrition and healthy eating and healthy activity and balance, but this should be done in health class. A PE teacher should be teaching activity.
Also, an assignment like this one which includes so much chart comparisons, etc should not be taught by someone who does not understand the complete system of a 12-year-old body, including their emotional health. I will reiterate that a dietician, who specializes in eating disorders would be the only one qualified to do such a teaching.
Keep it up Jeff, you are doing the right thing and I do think that you could have have avoided some of the "you're overreacting" responses if you had just posted summaries and not the letter(s). (Though the teacher's letter was very beneficial in seeing what you were dealing with.)
You are a terrific father and I do not think that you need - or that I am in any way qualified - to offer parenting advice (and I don't think that you asked for that.) You are fighting this issue appropriately and I look forward to seeing follow-ups.
I do agree with the posters above that parents should pull their kids from the assignment. I might - with the consent of my kid. He is pretty mature and responsible and I would have to talk it over with him and he would definately understand my entire opposition to it, and I would take his POV into consideration...so, maybe kids shouldn't be pulled from it. I think that would pretty much nix the project though - if parents refused to allow their kids to participate.
Posted by Anjha at May 6, 2008 11:47 AMI think the teacher did it on almost automatic pilot, not thinking about what she was doing. Oh, health and nutrition? The easy, don't-think-about-it lesson plan is have them write down everything and put it through a computerized analyzer. Boom, done. She may be getting defensive at being called out on her laziness and lack of creativity as much as anything. That's why I suggested bringing some possibilities and alternatives in; not in such a way that it insults her intelligence and looks like you're taking over, but in a way that offers another way to get the state standards across. And if she won't budge from the calorie analysis, just think about the parental support you'd get if you could get her to have the kids journal and analyze their mom or dad's diet for a week instead of their own (evil laugh). But yeah, please don't let go of it. Girls are too prone to EDs at that age.
Posted by car at May 6, 2008 11:55 AM"There is an epidemic of obesity in this country that is reducing the life span of Americans as well as overall quality of life. This project is obviously an attempt to address this very important issue. We have all seen the middle school kids that are already so obese they are in danger of suffering from obesity-related health issues all their life."
O RLY Alizonia? That's funny because the last time I checked you can't have an epidemic if you don't have:
A. A disease
B. It isn't contagious
Also, I would like you to back up you dangerously misinformed statement with actual data. Oh, no that would be far to difficult, it is much easier to just parrot what you have heard on TV.
Jeff, you are definitely not over reacting. Actually, the very incomprehensible nature of the response you received proves that point. This woman can't even write a LETTER for goodness sakes, what makes people think she is capable of leading your child through the delicate area of nutrition/self esteem.
I think it's appalling that instead of handling this matter privately, you put this teacher's letter to you on the internet and escalated it to the point that anybody, anywhere in the world can get involved in this silly little dispute. You are doing your daughter no favor by handling this matter in such a melodramatic, public fashion. It is not classy.
Posted by Sheila at May 6, 2008 12:08 PM[also directed from Shakesville]
Jeff, I am appalled at what some posters are saying in these threads. You are absolutely justified in being angry, you are not overreacting, and I think you're being much nicer than I would be if put in your situation! Scores on the Eating Attitudes Test have been linked to the development of eating disorders,and certainly calorie-counting is part of it. Thank you for being such a great father for your daughter, and you absolutely have my support... don't back down!
Posted by BabyFem at May 6, 2008 12:29 PMI believe I would inform the teacher and administrators at the school that my daughter would not be doing this assignment, and that she could do an alternative assignment that is more acceptable to me, and I would stick to that.
When my daughter was in the 5th grade her teacher left the classroom and put a couple of the children "in charge". The kids were working in pairs on projects, and my daughter needed to get something from her partner who sat on the other side of the room, so she got up, got the item, sat back down and continued to work. Well, one of the children that had been put "in charge" reported her misdeed to the teacher, and as part of her punishment, she was given extra math homework. The next morning I was in the headmistress's office informing the headmistress that 1) the teacher should NOT have left the classroom without an adult being there, 2) putting children in charge of other children is a sure way to create a bullying situation, 3) my daughter had done nothing wrong, but was just trying to do what she needed to do to continue working on her assignment, and should not have been punished at all, 4) assigning extra math homework as a punishment was absolutely wrong, and my daughter would not under any circumstances be permitted to do it.
It turns out there were a lot of problems with that teacher and she was replaced over the winter holiday, but that is another aspect of the story, and I am not suggesting your daughter's gym teacher should be fired. (One of the advantages to private schools over public ones is that it is easier to remove problem teachers.)
Posted by Shirin at May 6, 2008 01:00 PMI love how these concern trolls are jumping on you for printing the actual letter. It's not as if you are presenting any names but your own. You aren't violating anyone's privacy.
I would continue to follow up in writing, even if you also meet in person, since it gives you a record of what has been said.
As far as the whole "teachering is hard" routine is concerned, I agree that teaching is very difficult. I do what I can to support the teachers in our schools, but some of those teachers just do not know what they are doing and they need to be called out on it. This teacher came up with a lazy assignment that doesn't even seem to do what she is supposed to be doing (but it's easy)and she is (not surprisingly) very defensive about it, precisely because she knows how much effort went into coming up with it.
If the teacher is right, that will show itself if you continue to press the issue. If the teacher is wrong, nobody will know and this assignment will stand if you don't press it.
Good luck in a tough situation.
Posted by tambourine man at May 6, 2008 01:14 PMOkay, I have been biting my lip and ready to sceam after reading many of the posts here. First, I must let you know that I am a PE and Health teacher. I also teach a philosophy class at the high school level.
My first observation, while not surprising, is that many of you assume that the teacher is uneducated and stupid. I can almost guarantee that if this was a math or science teacher that you were talking about, those insults would not have been as readily thrown out there. All PE teachers are not just grown up, elitist athletes that were given a free pass through their undergrad education. I will admit that that does happen on occasion, but please do not assume and make huge generalizations about all PE teachers. I for one, love what I do and chose to teach health anf PE b/c I love being active throughout my day and enjoy trying to motivate others in the hopes that they just may fall in love with it too. I also stive to make PE fun for all students, not just the good athletes.
Secondly, the assignment does not seem too far off to me. I would however agree that it would fit better into the health curriculum than PE. No matter what some posters have said here about obesity not being an epidemic, or as big of a probem as other countries, I'm hoping we can all admit it is a huge problem in this country. Educating young people about what they are putting into their mouths everyday is beneficial. To have an assignment that looks at input/output ratios is extremely important.
I recognize that the media's message and the story that we all hear from a very young age is that only beautiful, skinny, fit people are worth a damn. This is unfortunate and I have a whole unit discussing and recognizing these influences on our self-esteem . So, I sympothize and realize the need to address the food issue with care.
In this crazy, hectic life that many people live, we are not devoting enough time to keeping our bodies healthy. The writing is on the wall, so to speak, just take a look around you.
I think it's fair to suggest for Dad to go and sit down with the teacher to talk about this. That way you both can explain yourselves and try to understand without the name-calling or assumptions on both sides.
But, I wanted to give my opinion as a PE and health teacher and let you all know that this assignment should always be handled with care and sensitivity. Many health classes around the counrty will ask, at some point, for students to know how to add up calories and know proportionally how many each person should take in each day, considering their age, height, and activity level.
Let me ask a question. If the teacher wanted the students to know the health effects of cigerettes, and had the students research what is actually in the cigerette (100's of chemichals, poions, etc.) would that make you upset?
Food fuels our bodies, and what we put into it directly relates to our overall health. We all need to learn this and know that some foods are much better for us than others.
We need to find a way to have this conversation and not feel like we are offending over half of the popullation. We all have direct control over what we eat and how we treat our bodies. I want all students to know at a young age that eating a variety of foods, not eating too much, and staying active is going to help them feel good and stay healthy.
I'm sending this off before my next period starts, so I have not had time to edit like I would normally. So please excuse this "stupid" PE teacher if there are any mispellings or incomplete sentences. I apologize.
Posted by GMC at May 6, 2008 01:15 PMHere via Shakesville. This made me want to cry. I developed an eating disorder at 13, from messages that I found in women's magazines -- all about calorie counting and calorie restriction. It took me years to learn how to eat healthily without counting calories. I remember panicking because I couldn't figure out how many calories were in something.
Anyone who thinks you can tell 12- and 13-year old girls to track and compare their calorie intake, body fat, and weight -- without those activities feeding right into the awful, unhealthy messages all women get about food and their bodies -- must be living under a rock. This is a recipe to give girls eating disorders.
I recommend speaking to a medical expert about it -- maybe your daughter's doctor, or a doctor who specializes in eating disorders -- and asking them what they'd suggest. At the very least you might be able to get a doctor's note to excuse your daughter from this activity; ideally the doctor might be able to get through to the school what a bad idea this is.
I wish I could figure out something for you to sue for. It seems like my school's only impetus to change something like this was to avoid a lawsuit. I know that's cynical.
Posted by Caroline at May 6, 2008 01:53 PMGMC, it sounds like you're handling this kind of health education correctly, with sensitivity to the kinds of issues that surround food and weight in this culture. Jeff's daughter's teacher isn't. It sounds like you are a good teacher.
Can you see the difference between your lesson plans and the one Jeff has detailed? Can you see how a lesson that involves tracking and comparing calories and weight with other students, especially at such a self-conscious, insecure age, could do much more harm than good?
Posted by Caroline at May 6, 2008 02:00 PMCaroline,
Thanks you. I did not read that the teacehr was comparing the kids to each other...is that true?
If so, then yes, that is embarrasing and not helpful. I just don't remember reading about that.
"...many of you assume that the teacher is uneducated and stupid. I can almost guarantee that if this was a math or science teacher that you were talking about, those insults would not have been as readily thrown out there."
My assumption that the teacher is poorly educated is based 100% on the writing sample and completely unconnected with her area of specialization. It is shameful for a college graduate to have such poor language skills. It also appears she did not bother, or did not know how to read and edit her writing. I make no assumptions regarding her intelligence.
Posted by Shirin at May 6, 2008 02:24 PMJeff,
I agree with the idea of having a meeting with the PE teacher and the VP. Be sure to document, document, document. Bring studies, printouts, proof.
If all else fails, the surefire way to make an administrator pale is to mention a possible complaint to be filed with your state's Education Agency. So, if you aren't satisfied with the results of the meeting, just drop the "WEA" or "OEA" or the "CEA".
Posted by Christina at May 6, 2008 03:05 PMI'd go with your friend to the principal's office, to start. I think principals tend to jump a little higher when it's not just one parent talking.
Then I'd just keep working up the food chain. You could also make a statement by requesting that your daughter have a different gym teacher.
Posted by Cara at May 6, 2008 04:58 PMJeff, I am going to echo something that was said in the first thread. GO TO LINDEN OAKS IN NAPERVILLE. They have an eating disorders clinic. Go find their experts and see what they think. They are expert in fighting these battles in schools, and have the credentials to help convince the school that this approach is setting girls up for eating disorders. Please ... this is very serious, and they will be a great advocate and resource.
Posted by Susanne at May 6, 2008 05:14 PMwow. just .. wow.
Posted by Lori at May 11, 2008 06:00 AM