nothing will happen. she gets called to congress, and the "i don't recall," meme will continue. congress will roll over, gwb will pardon, and all will go as before. no one has faced consequences for any of the crimes committed in this administration...
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 03:20 AMI just hope this won't prevent Conartista from getting her name put back on the bow of that Exxon super tanker.
Posted by TIKI AL at May 8, 2008 03:52 AMInteresting callers on c-span this morning. A republican said he's disgusted with the racism of his fellow blacks voting for Obama because he is black. He said Hillary is much more qualified to be president and would make a better president.
Another caller said republicans will put out a smear that Obama wants slave reparations and it'll be game over.
Meanwhile I'm trying to convince two people on a message board I frequent to vote for Obama if he's the nominee. They can't stand him and say they will vote republican before they vote for him. A republican says she disagrees with Hillary's policies, but has been impressed by her grasp of the issues and how she has handled herself in this campaign.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 04:47 AMWhy would the Obama campaign pay some of Clinton's debts? That makes no sense to me. As someone here said, people who gave money to Obama would be pretty peeved to see it go to Clinton.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 04:49 AM"They can't stand him and say they will vote republican before they vote for him."
Statements like that drive me up a wall. Good, tell your friends to vote for McCain. Thata show 'em. I think voting against the best interest of this Country is a grand idea.
Posted by Judith at May 8, 2008 05:20 AM"Another caller said republicans will put out a smear that Obama wants slave reparations and it'll be game over."
...I heard Oprah will disburse the long overdue funds from her show:
"YOU get a reparation! ... And YOU get a reparation! ... And YOU get a reparation!"
Oh, and maybe we can stack the SCOTUS with the likes of Alito and Roberts, get rid of a woman's right to Choice and take away those pesky freedoms we have left, which are few. That would be great too.
Posted by Judith at May 8, 2008 05:27 AMFunny TIKI.
I have no doubt that the GOP has plans for the destruction of Obama. It's what they do best.
Posted by Judith at May 8, 2008 05:30 AMStatements like that drive me up a wall. Good, tell your friends to vote for McCain. Thata show 'em. I think voting against the best interest of this Country is a grand idea.
Ugh, they're not my friends. I do have friends on that message board, close friends, but these are not them.
Oh, and maybe we can stack the SCOTUS with the likes of Alito and Roberts, get rid of a woman's right to Choice and take away those pesky freedoms we have left, which are few. That would be great too.
I've tried pointing that out.
I posted this yesterday, but didn't get an answer (as far as I know.) Can someone tell me how many delegates Clinton and Obama would get from FL and MI if the whole delegation were seated? I haven't been able to find the answer.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 05:37 AMThe House of Representatives is set today to vote on a World War II-style GI Bill for Iraq and Afghanistan veterans as an amendment to emergency supplemental war funding bill. And lawmakers will have to go on record as to whether they truly support our nation's newest generation of veterans.
Posted by Judith at May 8, 2008 05:41 AMCG, and what do these people say to justify their vote when you point that out?
Posted by Judith at May 8, 2008 05:46 AMwaking up to Hillary's statement on "hard working Americans, white Americans" being her base. Am I in some weird time warp? I thought uneducated white people were George Bush's base? Now they are Clinton's ? Thanks to Hillary Clinton for reminding us how the "divide and conquer" Karl Rove politics is played. A president for all Americans....not Hillary, apparently. Every day she campaigns, she acts more like Bush.
Posted by T2 at May 8, 2008 06:23 AMthis is the new dem party, per the nation magazine: the US is changing rapidly across all racial, generational and ethnic lines.In fact, the US is on track to become a majority-minority nation in the next few decades. And with all its imperfections, the Democratic party looks more like America--diverse, multicultural, younger--than a retrograde, smug, corrupt, mendacious Republican party which doesn't have a single African-American in its entire Congressional delegation.
what part of us dems does not apply here?
it is pathetic that folks who call themselves dems fail to see that...
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 06:39 AManthony,
What exactly are you trying to say? Maybe it's just me but I find your comment a bit cryptic.
Posted by snark at May 8, 2008 06:54 AMCan someone tell me how many delegates Clinton and Obama would get from FL and MI if the whole delegation were seated? I haven't been able to find the answer.
CG, It hasn't been determined yet. They might seat the whole delegation but count them only as half-delegates. Thus making MI and FL pay some penalty. The committee meets on May 31st, if I'm correct.
If they count them all I know the total is over 300 delegates.
morning snark:
how's you and yours?
the point of my post was an olive branch, a reminder of what the party looks like.
i read the vitriol and wonder wtf happened? our party is a better example of our country than the repub party ever could be, we have a golden opportunity to enact great changes. yes, it is a naive view, but what choice do we have? nearly every great empire fell. i just don't want ours to echo the same fate. how come we can't come together? how is it that 50% of hrc supporters will either stay home or vote mc cain?
mc cain will nominate scotus judges who will overturn r. v. w. is that what we want? in a fit of pique, the fundamental right to choose taken away? the bill of rights thrown out for expediency? my gawd, we torture people, and this man is for it, makes a point of wanting to bomb a nation who offered to help us after 9/11.
my previous post is a reminder of what our party looks like, and for some to act like spoiled children, taking their wagon and going home because it looks like their candidate will not win is shameful, in absolute terms.
all elections are important, but this one, this one has way too much at stake to vote for someone who flipped on everyone of his "maverick," traits to win the presidency.
i understand obama has to earn your vote. its one's right to vote for whoever. yet we are 2 judges away from draconian interpretations of the constitution. habeas corpus gone. illegal search and seizure, gone. wiretapping is the norm. no checks and balances...
je ne sais quois, mon ami, je ne sais quois.
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 07:27 AMI'm confused as to why the Obama campaign would agree to any "deal/scam" that resulted in Clinton seating more Michigan delegates than Obama? Putting aside for a minute the clear fact that both campaigns agreed that Michigan delegates would not be seated due to violating Party rules, how can a candidate say she "won" when her opponent was not even on the ballot? Isn't that the way they run elections in Communist countries?
Posted by T2 at May 8, 2008 07:37 AMHere's the deal: The Democrats prosper when we think of us all as part of a larger group. I saw someone over at TalkLeft say that the blacks are taking over Democratic Party with Obama, and no one called the commenter on being, well, racist and paranoid.
I support Obama lukewarmly because the three candidates to the left of him who'd I'd rather have voted for dropped out. I've got problems with H. Clinton's past positions on labor issues (I think some of her campaign's iterations have been awful too). Having said that if Clinton were the nominee I would easily vote for her over McCain. Voting for McCain would be self-destructive.
I have no doubt that there are a lot of Republican operatives spending their days trying to work the divides between men and women, black and white. People need to look at each candidate and ask how each one benefits or doesn't benefit oneself and one's loved ones. I have heard no one actually discuss women's issues where there is an appreciable difference between the two Dems. The concept of civil rights extends to women as well as people of color. Playing identity politics is playing into the Republicans' "divide and conquer" strategy. An injury to one is an injury to all.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at May 8, 2008 07:38 AMCG, there's a vert elaborate post up at the (extrremely pro-Obama) site "Booman Tribune" about every possible delegate scenario, including MI and FL being seated. That might answer your question.
The point of the post is that under any and every conceivable scenario, Hillary has to get a shitload of remaining super-Ds to back her, which simply isn't going to happen.
Posted by euzoius at May 8, 2008 07:39 AMJudith, here are some excerpts:
People who believe B.O. didn't "know" about AND that he didn't AGREE with his spiritual mentor's pastor's beliefs for the last twenty years are delusional. If I remember wright right, over a decade ago(?) (possibly twenty years?) he and his pastor discussed that Barack might have to distance himself from him (Mr. Wright) because of his RADICAL beliefs and Wright referenced in a letter such discussions, that is in wide circulation now.
As if he didn't know. Yeah, whatever. The DELUSIONAL idea that the government is spreading AIDS throughout the black community is more plausable than Barack insisting he didn't know the beliefs one of his closest buds held and propagated. It's one thing to believe something, it's a whole 'nother to set yourself up as a religious leader and spew it from a pulpit. Sunday after Sunday after Sunday after Sunday. In God's name, even. God damn America, right?
He knew about those beliefs, embraced the man, and became a pivotal high profile member of that religious community.
And voting for such a person would make me feel treasonous....
I don't believe it's any more a "black religious thing" than I believe every Muslim is out to get us, either. Trying to hide such contemptuous and vitriolic views of America behind a "black religious thing" edit for correction....a "black religious tradition" (or whatever fancy words Mr. Wright used) (found them) and thinking a white person will swallow that whole only goes to show how shallow, bigoted, racist, and prejudiced both Mr. Wright AND Mr. Obama actually are. Wake up, people. This isn't about change. It's about the same ol same ol blame game.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 07:44 AMbob:
african american's have been the most loyal voters of the dem party. it it frightening that someone can accuse us of "taking over," the dem party. i agree, that is a racist divisive statement, that belittles every dem out there.
i hope he was called on it...
It will be fitting that the final failure of America, the election of McCain, will result largely from a hysterical race "issue", and that as a dozen country-destroying calamities loom over us, election 2008 will devolve into a "black people are takin' over!" election.
It's a miracle we prospered as long as we did.
Posted by euzoius at May 8, 2008 07:46 AMDemocrats in Congress finding ethics during a probe. They would have to have a concept of ethics to discriminate ethics when they see it. I predict abject failure.
Another caller said republicans will put out a smear that Obama wants slave reparations and it'll be game over.
I'm all for it. All a person should have to do is show genealogy back to a slave freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. Then the current value of 40 acres and a mule is disbursed in a cascading fashion to that former slaves descendants. A widowed Uncle of mine died leaving no will and that's the process we'll see happen with his estate. Seems fair to me.
A republican said he's disgusted with the racism of his fellow blacks voting for Obama because he is black.
Was he equally as pissed at the women voting for Hillary only because she's a woman? If not, you need to ignore that guy.
Posted by phidipides at May 8, 2008 07:47 AMcg:
you are wasting your time trying to reach 'those' people. whatever logic you throw at them, their emotions, visceral though they are, will prevent any such logic from seeping in...
don't waste your air...
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 07:51 AMeuzious:
i have room in my house, by the beach btw, if you need to shoot over here. trust me, the revolution will be televised on this side of the pond...
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 07:53 AMThanks euz--that answers my question. Clinton nets 62 (the poster added wrong) pledged delegates if MI and FL are seated with no penalty (and Obama getting "uncommitted" in MI). So that doesn't even catch her up to his >150 delegate lead.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 07:57 AManthony, I know--you're right. And this particular poster that I'm dealing with, well, she's really not worth the air. One interesting thing about her though is that she is a fairly fundamentalist Christian, but a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage democrat.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 07:59 AMit is a sad thing that our electorate voted for gwb because they want to have a beer with him, and will not vote for obama because he's black. if it were hilary, it would be a woman issue.
this country is bass ackwards, and there's nothing except prayer to whomever god or rock you choose to change things now...
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 08:04 AMcg:
it goes to show that the "bitter," comments are spot on when applied to her. what's the matter with kansas, indeed...
One good thing about Obama as a candidate. we will know for sure how many REDNECKS are still in America. Living through the last 7 years of Bush regime, if anybody wants to continue the same with McCain, then only answer for an anti Obama vote would be that Obama is not white.
Posted by suresh at May 8, 2008 09:30 AMOne good thing about Obama as a candidate. we will know for sure how many REDNECKS are still in America. Living through the last 7 years of Bush regime, if anybody wants to continue the same with McCain, then only answer for an anti Obama vote would be that Obama is not white.
What that implies is that there is no significant policy or ideology difference between McCain and Obama. Do you think that's true? I don't think it's as...black and white...as your comment suggests.
Posted by at May 8, 2008 09:37 AMobama has plenty differences, for the better, than mc cain; however, the "simply because he's black," factor is a real posibility. just as hrc's sex would be used against her. this is the country we live in...
Posted by anthony at May 8, 2008 09:58 AMI agree with anonymous. People might vote for McCain because Obama has said he will raise taxes. When's the last time a president was elected who promised to raise taxes? People might vote for McCain because they feel safer with his national security experience. Sure he'll get us into more wars probably, but as long as we're not attacked here.... People might vote for McCain because he's got a pretty wife who keeps her mouth shut. Once the general election gets underway, Michelle Obama will be attacked endlessly. It's already started on right-wing talk shows. So that would be sexism, not racism. And yes, there are people who will vote for McCain because Obama is black. But if the election goes 51-49 McCain, it's not because 49% of the country is racist.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 10:01 AMIsrael's destabilization of the country is coming to fruition......divide and conquer, Machiavelli would be pleased!
Posted by Goyo at May 8, 2008 11:37 AM"this country is bass ackwards, and there's nothing except prayer to whomever god or rock you choose to change things now..."
...Millions of people do not pray, period. Not to God, and certainly not to pet rocks. I find your intollerant remark to be condescending and offensive.
Marching orders to Bush in prayer form got us into this mess in the first place. Comprehensive policy change, not prayers will slowly get us out.
Posted by TIKI AL at May 8, 2008 12:17 PMThanks for the gracious invite, anthony---I'll let you know!
I'll be working away for the Dems one more time, I guess.
Posted by euzoius at May 8, 2008 12:37 PMIsrael's destabilization of the country is coming to fruition.
Sectarian fighting in Lebanon is Israel's fault how?
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 01:09 PMAs someone on my other message board pointed out, Obama voted against a bill in the Illinois legislature that would have required medical care for fetuses that survived abortion. Most people will find that awful. A similar law was passed at the federal level with almost no votes against it.
Obama has also pledged to raised taxes, and despite the fact that John McCain doesn't seem to understand that people don't pay capital gains taxes on their retirement accounts, the "fact" that they do will be put out there.
Forget racism and Wright and Ayers (which hasn't gotten a full airing yet), and Rezko. I'm worried that Obama can't get elected on the issues, which is an appalling thought since McCain is more Bush.
Posted by CG at May 8, 2008 01:27 PMCG, well "evil reigns where good men do nothing" or throw their vote away. Americans are really truly stupid!
Posted by Judith at May 8, 2008 04:14 PManthony
The American people in general are getting so screwed by the choke hold the corporation and corporate media has over the messges sent out to the poplulation. Now we have African Americans angry at white working poor for voting for someone who spoke to them about their porblems without condescending.
If only someone could explain to African Americans that it isnt white working poor who keep the jobs and housing and decent eductation from them! They dont have the power to! And as long as you buy into the messages the media is sending your way you will waste your ammo on unarmed civilians! And nothing will get better any time soon.
imo
Posted by the young Judith at May 9, 2008 05:48 PMsorry for the typos -
Posted by the young Judith at May 9, 2008 05:49 PM