To what extent is at least part of the attraction of Obama that he lets you (note second person, I'm an evil foreigner) off the hook? No accountability. No investigations. No prosecutions. No corrective legislation. Just atmospherics and Obama's charisma is a mighty wind that will sweep all that away?
Posted by Alan at May 16, 2008 06:40 AMI certainly hold no expectation of sudden spiritual or intellectual growth on the part of the majority of Republican "leaders" and "movers/shakers" currently infesting Washington. Some few may learn and be chastened, but not most. That's why sweeping replacement of the current crop of rodents is essential. We may make a good start on it this election. I certainly hope so!
However, they are only a small part of the problem. ALL of these briberies, high crimes AND misdemeanors have been enabled by the complicit and utterly dishonest, so-called "media" owned by the Gilded Age, Billionaires Club.
We CANNOT allow the rank crimes committed by this administration to be swept under the Constitutional rug. Democracy, as our ancestors struggled and sacrificed for will not survive if the rule of law and even, by all the Gods, the principle of Habeas Corpus is allowed to lie trampled beneath the proto-fascist, Blackwater Jack Boots of the New American Empire.
Without clear and draconian consequences for these crimes against both humanity and society we've all witnessed in numb amazement over the past two decades, since the Reagan corruption, those powers and criminal behavior will simply lie waiting for the next would-be King to ascend to the White House.
Even if Barack Obama would never abuse his authority, or ANY Democrat who, presumably, cares for our form of government, there will always remain the dregs of this current crop of vipers waiting to return to power; precisely in the same manner the Nixon/Reagan holdovers, like DICK Cheney and "Rummy" and Wolfowitz et al. did this time.
As long as they can get paid by Think Tank farms, be allowed to pontificate on television and be accepted as "experienced experts" on "serious matters of government", they will return like a societal cold sore, ready to pick up where they left off.
I don't know how, but somehow, the back of the corporate propaganda machine has to be broken and serious criminal penalties must be meted out to obvious criminals. Reagan and Bush I pardoned a whole coterie of criminals. Within a decade, they were fouling the levers of power with their vile, greasy grip.
It's NOT partisanship to enforce the rule of law. As another tepid but loyal supporter of President Obama, I'll fight tooth and nail to prevent these crimes to be ignored in the name of bipartisanship or comity! Too many Americans have struggle and died to allow their country to be shat upon without consequence! NO AMNESTY for war criminals!
Posted by DeminNewJ at May 16, 2008 07:31 AMThat first link to a MoveOn diary has Obama admiring Reagan AGAIN. I'm sorry, but I want to SPIT when I think of Reagan, the fucker that did nothing to stop AIDS from becoming an epidemic, broke the union of air-traffic controllers (starting another trend that hasn't quit), and told of scary pink-Cadillac owning welfare frauds. The US is in dire straights thanks to what Reagan and his ilk started, and Obama admires him? Sheesh.
Posted by Sharon at May 16, 2008 08:42 AMDeminNewJ, how right you are.
NO AMNESTY for war criminals!
That should be cry of the American people. I could die tomorrow happy if I knew that all were subjected to trial and punishment.
The GOP is a cancer eating away at the Republic.
Posted by Gay Veteran at May 16, 2008 11:27 AMReagan had leeway to commit his crimes because most citizens of this country accepted the idea that "Nixon has suffered enough, having to resign in disgrace".
G.W. Bush had leeway to commit his crimes because the majority in this country went along with the Republican flakking during Iran/Contra that "This country cannot afford another failed Presidency!"
Notice how they escalate the criminal, constitution-invalidating conduct every time and immediately demand that it be normalized and forgotten?
I hear there's lots of room in Spandau prison.
With all the Bush appointees to the Justice Department and the courts efforts to prosecute for criminality will be seriously compromised.
I do agree that war crimes should be prosecuted -- and crimes against the constitution and the American people.
The prosecution team(s) would have to be carefully vetted, and they would have to select the targets of their prosecution VERY carefully.
Posted by Mark Ganzer at May 16, 2008 12:10 PMAll this begs the question; if we know we're not about to transcend into a new era of bipartisanship, why are we even thinking about nominating Obama? It's unilateral disarmament in what should have been a strong year for Democrats. Hillary is infinitely more likely to have investigations and prosecutions. Obama wants to make kissy face with the Republicans.
Posted by garak at May 16, 2008 02:44 PMFunny Barry, there's alway room in a museum for history. The place has been shut down since Hess died...good thing since it was costing US taxpayers a lot of money every year Rudolf Hess lived. Nice museum though...great place to visit. Quaint town, pleasant people, great food, all found in Potsdam.
Posted by peter at May 16, 2008 03:25 PMParadox...
Why do you persist in telling a lie even if it is about the 2000 election which was settled quite some years back. As you know, the Supreme Court did NOT decide the vote, they stopped the constant revotes demanded by Al Gore.
When the were counted, President Bush Won. AFTER the election, a complete recount was done and paid for by the Miami Hearld. Bush STILL won by 527 votes. That gave Bush a razor thin majority something Clinton never attained.
As for partisianship...PLEASE show us all three or four examples where B. Hussein Obama has "reached across the aisle" duing his 18 months in the US Senate or his one term in the State Senate.
That should be pretty easy, just list them all out here. I'll check back later!
Posted by Markle at May 16, 2008 07:41 PMMore egregious lies by the ignorant Mockle.
The FL Supreme Court had ordered a statewide recount of all undervotes to proceed. The US Supreme Court, by a 5-4 vote (5 conservative Repub justices) overturned that ruling and said that time had run out. They stopped the ongoing recount.
And after the Miami Herald's review, another independent review (by the National Opinion Research Center and even more newspapers) of ALL the uncounted ballots was undertaken. It found, looking at both undervotes AND overvotes, that under any standard chosen, Gore won. The FL trial court was about to hear a motion to look at the overvotes when the US Supreme Court stopped the recount. The trial judge lated indicated he was likely to grant the motion.
But even if he didn't, the study proves that Gore won FL, and hence the 2000 election. Bush lost and was improperly sworn in as president in 2000. The 5 radical conservative extremists on the Supreme Court installed the loser of the election as president. Think about that.
That's what we now know (with certainty), and that's what history will record.
Posted by euzoius at May 17, 2008 05:39 AMSo both the Vice President and the President acted improperly in the certifying of the electors and the transferal of power to the newly certified president. They both committed unlawful and illegal acts by this transferal. they were duplicious in this unlawful act. They conspired by their agreement to commit this unlawful act. Does any of these describe how it is to you Euz?
What another crock...several agencies reviewed the vote, several agencies came to the same conclusion that Bush had won. The Florida Supremes never tried to repare their remanded cases to correct problems that SCOTUS noted. They just dismissed them. The decision you're refering to in the last Gore v. Bush had a seven to two decision on the recount with a five to four decision on the remedy. Try reading the decision, all fifty pages, not the Cliff notes.
Posted by peter at May 17, 2008 09:23 AMObama's "Republicans are such nice people" line really makes me wonder about his sanity.
But I have hope! Ready for crazy nice over compassionate idiot?
Posted by Glenn I at May 17, 2008 11:16 AMThe idea that a shiteating turd like you is telling me to actually read the Bush v Gore decision is pretty ironic, peter pinhead.
You don't have the slighest idea what your "recount" v. "remedy" wingnut talking point even means in reality. Just cut n' pasting from your usual garbage troughs.
Bush lost the 2000 election, that's what posterity now knows.
Posted by euzoius at May 17, 2008 01:22 PMgood old pants pissing peter, always willing to lick his master's boots like a good little authoritarian
The ReThug Supreme Court decision opened the door to Little Boot's war crimes in Iraq.
Posted by gay veteran at May 17, 2008 01:55 PMWhat fun, euzious and gay,
I'll bet you're still pouting about learning that there was no Santa Clause.
Get over it, no one knew him better than his own state. How did that work out for him?
Had he conceeded in a respectable manner, the transition teams would have started working together sooner. A report showing a link between the 9/11 terrorists, and the flight schools would have been on the presidents desk months earlier. Due to the Democrats and Al Gore, it was completed on 9/10/01.
Now Al Gore is attempting to foist the greatest scam the world has ever seen on the American people. Alcohol in gasoline has proven to be a massive, incredible boondoggle. His Global Warming hoax is being exposed by thousands of reputable scientists rather than the UN and Gore.
This is who you think could run a country? Surely you jest.
Posted by Markle at May 17, 2008 04:12 PMMalarkle---I nominate you for TLC's coveted "Most Shitbrained Rightist" Award. For years, peter pinhead has been our winner, but your level of poisoned brain cretinism surely will give him a run for his money.
Congratulations on turning yourself into a caricature of a human being---it's an amazing accomplishment, even starting from your very low IQ level. But all wingnuts start at the very bottom quintile---you've just found a miraculous way to go even lower, get even stupider! Bravo, truly. A self made retard.
Posted by euzoius at May 18, 2008 05:27 AMWe do not have to tolerate the intolerant nor compromise with the divisive. We don't have to pretend the stoopids are smart and we don't have to let anyone who can look at the carnage of Republican governance and think "Yes, I'd like some more please" into the Progressive tent - it's not big enough for people who are simply okay with being wrong over and over and over. We've been far too nice to idiots and the Liberal penchant for tolerance and inclusion and compromise has been abused by people who have no interest in playing fair or being honest (much less competent). Ignore them, laugh at them, show your contempt, but never 'deal' with them. They will sink their own boats if left to their own devices - so let them.
Posted by Russ Carter at May 19, 2008 04:18 PM