Turkana, another apologist for Hillary!
BO wouldn't get away with a comment like that... ever! Would he?
Answer the question!
I can't decide whether the paranoid delusions of the Hillary haters are more McCarthyesque or Stalinoid.
I'm sooo tired of the faux-in-the-know word to the wise about 'dog whistles' and so forth, and the insinuation that I'm naive for not recognizing HRC's cold political calcluation.
Um, no. That's not happening. You folks are just nuts.
Posted by madam, i'm adam at May 24, 2008 12:55 PMIf Clinton had spent even a modicum of effort taking a stand against (and refusing to practice) "gotcha" politics, I might have some inclination to support (yet another) essay on your front page objecting to the way this has all shaken out.
But she didn't. So I don't. While I absolutely agree that some of the reaction is overblown, it's becoming clear to me that many of her supporters refuse to acknowledge that Clinton herself has helped to set this tone. She very enthusiastically contributed to the "gotcha" environment, and there's a kind of bittersweet justice in seeing her now subjected to it. May she forever reap all that she has sown.
Posted by FeverDream at May 24, 2008 12:58 PMAnd last night, Keith Olbermann went absolutely nuts over this for five straight minutes and the Kossacks treated him like a hero. And it's so hypocritical because he joked that a super-delegate should take her into a room and only him to come out. It's disturbing that so many in the blogosphere think that he is one of them when he has become nothing but a media blowhard.
Posted by rjarnold at May 24, 2008 12:59 PMyes, 7o6...
in this case, i'm agreeing with rfk, jr. and disagreeing with marshall, olbermann and the shrillosphere. i'm unhinged.
Posted by Turkana at May 24, 2008 01:05 PMYou will always have credibility with me Turkana!
Posted by andgarden at May 24, 2008 01:07 PMwell,you can count me in with the "unhinged"...
Posted by nic danger at May 24, 2008 01:16 PMGeeze, at this point it's just dead horse flogging, isn't it? Bobby Jr. probably realizes getting excited over anything Clinton says now only damages party unity. He's right to down play it.
Well said, Turkana.
Posted by wilder at May 24, 2008 01:19 PMIt is extremely hard to tell the difference between a Bushite and an Obamatron, they are both filled with so much hate and anger.
Posted by D Jessup at May 24, 2008 01:20 PMLike I said in the Eriposte's post, I'm on the fence because I think I knew what she was attempting to say, but that it didn't quite come off so well. Just throwing in the assassination word as a reference was kinda weird, to put it politely. It was just a bit strange the way she said it, but oh well. This sucker's thankfully winding down soon, at least I hope, so little "gaffes" like this will be in the past and a little more forgotten.
Posted by MisterOpus1 at May 24, 2008 01:21 PMHillary is the candidate of hard-working, white, never-gonna-get-assassinated Americans. She's proud of that.
Posted by dj moonbat at May 24, 2008 01:22 PMUh, are you talking about Steve in this post?
Posted by kaleidescope at May 24, 2008 01:26 PMTurkana
the only rabid rodent is the person who used the term assassanated, for no apparent reason.
Posted by rm forsyth at May 24, 2008 01:31 PMIt just occurred to me, Turkana, why don't you get out there and name some names. Which people on which blogs have published which posts that are rending garments, clutching pearls, and accusing Hillary Clinton of waiting for an assassin to hand her the nomination? Because that's basically what you are accusing unnamed people of doing, though you're not even very specific about what it is you're accusing them of. It would be so much more refreshing if you got specific. There must be at least one or two people you could actually name.
Posted by kaleidescope at May 24, 2008 01:32 PMI am anything BUT a supporter of Hillary Clinton. In fact, were she to become the Democratic candidate, I would unquestionably and unhesitatingly vote for a third party candidate rather than vote for her. While I find in her many qualities important in a president, my inability to support her is based entirely on her dismal record and stated or implied positions on issues that are important to me, primarily foreign and military policy, particularly as it pertains to the Middle East and South Asia, and human rights.
I am also not an Obama supporter, and assuming he becomes the candidate, I will probably also vote for a third party candidate, though I find him somewhat less unpalatable than Hillary. I base my lack of support for him on his record, such as it is, and on his stated and implied positions, as well as other matters such as his habit of absenting himself or voting "present" on "controversial" votes.
And now that I have established my anti-Hillary and non-pro-Obama bona fides (in other words, I am about as close as one can be to neutral on the subject of Hillary vs Obama), let me say that I find this latest tempest in a teapot to be yet another sign that during an election season Americans completely lose what there is of their collective minds and whatever small capacity they have for logical, rational thought.
The very idea that Hillary was expressing a desire to see Obama come to harm is a sure sign that this is indeed, as Scott Ritter calls it, the silly season. And I can't wait until it's over and all we have to deal with is the normal level of American irrationality.
Posted by Shirin at May 24, 2008 01:32 PMIt's moved from the blogs to the MSM. The Washington Post is now echoing the worst sort of distortion of Clinton's remarks. It's their new Dean Scream.
The sad thing about the loss of integrity of the faux progressive blogs is that we will need a critical sphere that critiques the government no matter who is President. Blogs like dKos can no longer do that with any credibility.
After 8 years of Bushworld, I've come to learn that when the corporate media takes it into their tiny minds to crucify somebody based on a lot of ginned-up bullshit, that's precisely when it becomes imperative to listen closely to what that somebody is actually saying.
I'm surprised and disappointed at how many leftish folks that I once had respect for have utterly failed to learn that lesson.
Posted by madam, i'm adam at May 24, 2008 01:40 PMPS There seems to be an implication that the only "liberal" blogs that have lost their integrity are the pro-Obama ones (forgive me if I have misread this). To completely dispel this myth, check out the formerly very intelligent and worthwhile No Quarter blog of Larry Johnson for its constant stream of often extremely far fetched Obama-bashing (did you know that there are only three degrees of separation between Obama and Saddam Hussein, and by the way, Obama has some tenuous connections with some people who might have committed acts when he was a toddler that could be called terrorism, therefore, he is connected with terrorists?) interspersed with Hillary hagiography.
All this makes dictatorships look appealing.
Posted by Shirin at May 24, 2008 01:41 PMIt doesn't matter what she meant by it.
What she said caused people to realize that her only path to the nomination is something catastrophic befalling Obama.
It doesn't matter what she meant by it.
What she said revealed the reality of this primary and people now see that reality.
It doesn't matter what she meant by it.
Posted by Asa Dotzler at May 24, 2008 01:46 PMA clumsy comment receiving an overblown reaction not a first for this primary season. The word "assassination" is a trigger for democrats other than the Kennedys. Her apology was directed to the Kennedys and RFK Jr. accepted it on behalf of his family. His authority on how others may or may not respond to her comments stops there, within the Kennedy compound.
Acknowledge the possibility that others may have historical reasons for feeling a bit sketchy when someone brings up previous assassinations of public figures. She meant no harm but she may have caused some harm. Don't tell others it's all in their heads, even if it is. Words like empathy, common sense and diplomacy come to mind. Let's practice amongst ourselves and then see how well we apply it during the General Election.
Posted by Mec at May 24, 2008 01:52 PMNo, it doesn't matter what she said or what she meant. All that matters is that we respond with cynicism and blind hatred. That's how propaganda works. That's our 'reality' now.
Posted by madam, i'm adam at May 24, 2008 01:54 PMShe's done. Not going to be many Supers for her after THAT. Weren't that many recently anyhow and Al Giordano says that 40 of hers are in the process of jumping ship. Every one of 'em a Judas, no doubt. Turkana, that was one of the worst Freudian slips I've ever seen in my life. That's what gives it its legs. I went through all of Sally Bedell Smith's book on the Clintons just get some kind of handle on Hillary. It was a nasty read but very believable and it left me thinking that she's kinda nasty. I was astonished to see this bubble up to the surface but that's what she's thinking. She needs help.
Posted by JohnShreffler at May 24, 2008 01:56 PMThanks for this- it's the most sane offering on the matter i've seen yet.
Posted by Misfitina at May 24, 2008 02:04 PMTurkana, in spite of Clinton's poorly aimed apology, the Kennedy family has nothing to do with this. It wasn't that she mentioned the RFK assassination and brought back haunting memories for people. It's that alot of people (me included) understood her to say that she's still running in case Obama were assassinated. Lacking a coherent explanation from Senator Clinton, that would appear to be the straight-forward explanation for what she said when explaining why she was still in the race.
I wasn't terribly offended, having taken the clinical view that a political or literal catastrophe striking Obama is Clinton's only path to the nomination. What she said just struck me as accidental honesty. Alot of people took it far more seriously, since Barack Obama has a giant target on his back as an African-American who has a strong chance of becoming president. That is the point which both Clinton in her non-apology apology and this post have missed.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at May 24, 2008 02:04 PMMaybe Hillary Clinton is tired at the end of a long campaign and just made a gaffe. But I must say, Turkana, that there is something I find offensive and repulsive about the tone and the overkill in your post. This is reminiscent of what we have heard in the demonization and putdown of scores and scores of bloggers on the left. Not only are their views discounted, but they are savaged verbally; it is implied that any benefit of analysis they once had, is cancelled, and to be expunged from memory.
I don't like this thuggish atmosphere. I don't like this wholesale condemnation; and I despise what I read here. You accuse people of the most loathesome motives, as you employ exaggerated, overweening language. You posit your own righteousness as a given. In short, you spit and spew over what you say is an over-reaction, while over-reacting in the extreme.
Posted by Copeland at May 24, 2008 02:05 PMMadam: you're spot on.
"I can't decide whether the paranoid delusions of the Hillary haters are more McCarthyesque or Stalinoid."
They seem to be calling themselves "coalition builders" ironically.
Posted by Misfitina at May 24, 2008 02:06 PMReaction by my mother and aunt (both in HRC's only solid demographic, besides Appalachians: older white working class ladies): "She's nuts... She needs to go away and rest for a long, long time... This makes me want to cry." They were solidly in her corner in January. Live in Ohio. This is the culmination of a campaign of lies, spin, race-baiting and insults ("any state that I didn't win is filled with people who don't matter.") Campaign tactics matter. Some people do pay attention. Wake up and smell the burnt toast.
Posted by Mr. Larry at May 24, 2008 02:06 PMTurk, don't you and Eri wish you had something else to right about other than how mean everyone is to Ms.Clinton?
How about turning your energies to disecting the differences between the two candidates policy offerings? Or better yet, between the Democrats policy positions and that of McCain. Obama's been doing that for a couple weeks now, while Ms. Clinton has been hard at work on her calculator. Obama was in FL yesteday speaking with the Cuban community about real issues. Ms. Clinton was trying to compare slavery to counting the invalid MI votes....quite a difference.
I doubt Hillary lost any support at all over this latest faux outrage. Obama? Hell yeah. How does Obama plan to win when perhaps half of the Hillary supporters are totally lost to him?
Posted by MarkL at May 24, 2008 02:23 PMAre you high? Seriously? She didn't say that RFK battled into June. She said that he was assasinated in June. Take your freaking blinders off.
Posted by NVC at May 24, 2008 02:35 PMI just love the "I'm going to take my toys and go home if Hillary isn't crowned the nominee" crowd. Very special. If anyone is voting for Grandpa Bomb-bomb over Obama, then he/she should be okay with overturning Roe, launching another war(s), and further destroying the justice department, EPA, etc. If those HRC supporters want that, then what were you doing supporting HRC in the first place?
Crickets.
Posted by Mr. Larry at May 24, 2008 02:35 PMIf there's even the slightest possibility that somebody will be targeted for assassination this June, shouldn't it be the candidate with experience dodging sniper fire? Isn't that the candidate you want on the phone at 3 a.m.?
Posted by dj moonbat at May 24, 2008 02:50 PMShorter O-bots/MSM: "ONLY the forced submission of Hillary, and the sacrifice of her camaign on the altar of Obama's (false) unity can ressurect our feelings of hope, change, transformation and victory!"
Hint: it ain't gonna work. The 'magic' is gone.
Posted by madam, i'm adam at May 24, 2008 02:50 PMI, for one, will feel terribly deprived if Hillary drops out. The woman is a gaffe machine. This kind of entertainment isn't easy to come by.
Back when there was a danger that her tactics might actually succeed, I was a little worried. But after this latest number, I have a feeling the superdelegates are going to follow the pledged ones.
So by all means, Hillary fans, enjoy this special time where she does everything she can to delegitimize the eventual nominee. She's really earning herself a special place in history.
Posted by dj moonbat at May 24, 2008 03:10 PMhe [keith olberman] joked that a super-delegate should take her into a room and only him to come out. It's disturbing that so many in the blogosphere think that he is one of them when he has become nothing but a media blowhard.
Posted by rjarnold at May 24, 2008 12:59 PM
Keith Olberman sad sorry for what he said and she reference kennedy and obama and the reason why she should stay in this race 4 different times and that media is only picking this up now. Please stop can someone stop the ignorance.
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he [keith olberman] joked that a super-delegate should take her into a room and only him to come out. It's disturbing that so many in the blogosphere think that he is one of them when he has become nothing but a media blowhard.
Posted by rjarnold at May 24, 2008 12:59 PM
Keith Olberman sad sorry for what he said and she reference kennedy and obama and the reason why she should stay in this race 4 different times and that media is only picking this up now. Please stop can someone stop the ignorance.
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I think you guys need to clap a little louder for Tinkerbell. Her little light is getting pretty dim.
Posted by phidipides at May 24, 2008 03:20 PM"I'd been without electricity for a day, and without internet for a couple days..."
Congratulations on reducing your carbon footprint -- remeber, its for Gaia.
Posted by Bagley at May 24, 2008 03:20 PMboggled,
i have solar power, so my carbon footprint is already small. my new house will be carbon neutral. but thanks for caring!
Posted by Turkana at May 24, 2008 03:29 PM"Clinton's behavior always must be interpreted as the intentional promotion of evil." Whoa! that's a pretty harsh statement, Turk.
Posted by T2 at May 24, 2008 03:38 PMIf you want to say that Clinton used a poor example to illustrate that the primary race need not be over by June and I will agree with you. Say that she was calling for the assination of Obama and I will say that you have taken leave of your senses. RFK Jr. was not offended by her comment. If anybody has a right to be offended, it would be him.
Posted by jwrjr at May 24, 2008 03:39 PMYou know what's really shameful? Using the word "assassination" in the context of describing a reason for staying in the race, when the only rival candidate is a Black man who has been targetted by several racist nutjobs as someone who needs a bullet to his head. It's hard to believe that Clinton didn't understand fully the implications of using this kind of loaded term. Obama has given her a pass on it. I doubt the AA community will be so forgiving.
Posted by cds at May 24, 2008 03:40 PMLet's see. Hillary leaped ALL OVER "bitter". She used it over and over, and called him "elite" just to be sure everyone got her point.
Just for contrast, let's look at Obama's response to a rather more toxic word: "assassination".
He responded today in an interview for a Puerto Rican radio station:
"I have learned that when you are campaigning for as many months as Senator Clinton and I have been campaigning, sometimes you get careless in terms of the statements that you make and I think that is what happened here. Senator Clinton says that she did not intend any offense by it and I will take her at her word on that."
The man is a class act in his response. Hopefully a couple of you can actually acknowledge that much.
Posted by FeverDream at May 24, 2008 03:45 PMcds:
No, what's really shameful is assholes like you lying and distorting words so that you can pretend that Clinton meant she was hoping Obama would be assassinated so that she could become President.
This bullshit will backfire. This is the last straw for so many people - the freakazoid movement of the Obama Nation has alienated so many people that there's no way he'll win.
The funny part is that, by any objective measure, assassination would be so much more likely for Clinton (based on the sheer volume or irrational hatred directed her way) than for Obama (based on the shameful fawning directed at him). But GOD FORBID anyone use an historical words that the precious Obama supporters might lose sleep over. Fucking totalitarians at this point.
Posted by at May 24, 2008 03:49 PMHillary is a politician, and a lawyer. In both businesses, one must be fiendishly attentive to detail in one's choice of words -- because everything will be used against you later.
It's perfectly fair, contra her apologists, to use Hillary's words against her when she chooses such inflammatory illustrations for why she should remain in the race. Whether insidious or merely careless, it just doesn't matter. If you toss around the word "assassination" like that, you're just not a very good politician.
Posted by dj moonbat at May 24, 2008 03:52 PMI don't care what Hillary said. I love her.
Posted by semiot at May 24, 2008 03:54 PMTurkana,
I like some of your posts, but this seems as overblown as some of the very media and bloggers you deride on Hillary's stupid comments. Does it really surprise you that these sorts of comments were seized on and used for various legit and illegit reasons? Do you really think, full context or not, that they were not at the minimum in poor taste? Hasn't the Clinton Machine done the same thing with others' words when it worked to their advantage. You doth protest too much, it seems to me, Turkana.
And, the bottom line is that Hillary took this crap herself and then stepped in it, so stop all the victim-card stuff. I don't hear many people ascribing evil intent to Hillary, but I do hear a slew of folks suggesting how stupid, tasteless and thoughtless they were, and I think that matters.
As for RFK, Jr., is he not a Clinton supporter and surrogate? Also, as a good Democrat who clearly respects the Clinton, do you really expect him to flame-throw publicly when the party is trying to find a way to unite behind its nominee, Obama? I simply see his comments as taking the high road. Down the line, we will all find out what the various members of the Kennedy family thought about Hillary's comments behind closed doors. But for now, everyone is playing their part... and, in the process, it seems, trying to save Hillary from herself. Heck, there have been many reports at this point about friends and political allies trying to find a way to bring Bill and Hill back to some clarity and reality before they completely ruin their image and legacy. those are friends and political confidantes!
I will write that the comments do offer us a window into her mind and the mind of her campaign, which is clearly desperate and grasping onto the tenuous strands it has left in this campaign. All they have left is some insanely unlikely scenario, the metaphorical equivalent of an assassination. This is the looney part, to me... to see their thinking so raw and clear and to then understand that they are living in a bizarre-o reality all of their own making. We've all been there when we really want something and it eludes us. Humans have this amazing ability to convince ourselves of all kinds of silliness... Hope against hope, I think some folks say.
Anyway, Hillary has well earned the harsh reactions of so many by her own lies, distortions and manipulations in this campaign. She is reaping what she has sowed for so many months now. That might be sad or too bad, but it is what it is...
As you all hate to see me write, what most disappoints is that these types of posts undermine the other, much more reasoned and reasonable posts people like Turkana post.
Posted by Patrick at May 24, 2008 04:03 PMFever dream,
you're full of shit.
The Obama campaign has been pushing this story HARD>
RFK, Junior's statement is good enough for me. He certainly is bright enough to know when to be irate and when not to be.
Posted by Judith#1 at May 24, 2008 04:09 PMMay, you dimwit, do you think for a minute that AA's think that Clinton used that term innocently? There is no "distorting words" - she uttered them, period. No one knows WHY Clinton said what she did. But the fact remains that it was a spectacularly stupid and inciteful thing to say, and I find it hard to believe she (the word parsing meister) was totally unaware of its effects. Just another gross miscalculation on her part.
Posted by cds at May 24, 2008 04:09 PMwhere has obama specifically said anything concerning this "gaffe?" now relate that to bitter and how hilary quickly went out accusing obama of elitism. hilary continues to get passes while obama gets eviscerated.
i believe it was euzious who asked what would've happened if obama said this? and of course rfk gave supportive words, he endorsed her.
i give her the benefit of the doubt here. however, there's yahoo's out there who want to see the "darky hanging from a tree," and just "don't feel right," with him running, her statement could be taken by some unstable whack job as permission to take him out.
"who would rid me of this man?" equated to thomas a beckett getting killed.
we have to be careful with what we say, period. but she appears to continuously make fubar'd statements, this one, the white hard working american comment. again, he gets killed for "bitter," but imagine if he made statements like her, you hilary supporters would be all over him. shit, you're all over him now, and he didn't make any comment condemning her regarding her statements. surrogates are not the candidate.
Posted by anthony at May 24, 2008 04:12 PMWow. Great post. Thanks for the clear vision.
Posted by Radiowalla at May 24, 2008 04:12 PMthe "hang darky from a tree," and "don't feel right," comments were taken from the huff po. in an article concerning racism in the current primary.
Posted by anthony at May 24, 2008 04:14 PMMoonbat is onto something with the lawyer and politician reminder. Words are everything to these folks. Remember Bill famously parsing what "is is"? Of course, we all do...
But, I want to make one more point. In the context of a political race, it is always unseemly to bring up the specter of assassination. In the context of THIS race, when both major Dem candidates are hated by a sizable part of the population for their identity (race or gender), this is doubly problematic. And, as some have written, given the parallels of this time to 68, it is also a troubling reference. She needn't have mentioned the assassination at all, just that the '68 campaign went on into June... This is why everyone is psychoanalyzing her.
But, I would also submit that because Obama is a black man, it is amazingly frightening and shocking. Literally, thousands and thousands of black people have given their lives while trying to exercise basic political liberties. Not just Malcolm and Martin, but thousands of others. This is the HISTORICAL NORM. Beatings, torture, rapes, murders, etc. Go back and read the history of Reconstruction, for example: wholesale slaughter of the new black political class... and anyone else talking about political rights, let alone trying to exercise them. Go review Red Summer of 1919. Check out the race wars throughout the country during WWII, a dirty little secret hidden by all the "greatest generation" triumphalism. Or, the obvious choice of the civil rights and Black Power era, where black bodies were dropping from white supremacist bullets and bludgeons left and right during that noble crusade.
And, throughout all of these era, it was white "leaders" (the best, most affluent and most educated; the power elite) who employed racially divisive rhetoric, often in the context of self-interested campaigns for office, that consciously or not helped create the permissive atmosphere out of which racial violence occurred. This is not something Hillary Clinton or any of us should take lightly if we have even a cursory understanding of our own past.
I'm sure this sounds like a lecture, and it is, to a degree, but it is a history that is being grossly ignored in this context. As others have pointed out, there is already a target on BO's back, that is why he has a Secret Service detail as big as the Prez. (oh, and how about those racist Secret Service agents who themselves like to kid about the assassination of prominent African American political leaders: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/20080511_Secret_Service_racist_e-mails_filed.html)
So, in this context, whatever her intentions, Hillary's comments simply cannot be accepted. I will take her apology as sincere, but she deserves the bulk of the rebuke she has gotten, I think... and the fact that she never apologized to Obama and/or his family, is really damning.
Posted by Patrick at May 24, 2008 04:22 PMMarkL:
"You're full of shit"? And you say this in response to a level-headed and non-inflammatory quote from Obama himself responding to Clinton's gaffe.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply. It says a lot about you and reflects well on this site, don't you think?
Posted by at May 24, 2008 04:25 PMi've been out of the loop, but i viewed k.o.'s special comment. what strikes me as funny is when he goes after repubs, bill o, faux news, etc. he's good. when he tears hilary a new one, with examples mind you, he's a troll, a nutcase, everything else but a child of gawd.
double standards abound concerning your candidate. if obama supporters don't agree with her, we are attacked by fellow dems, ie h.r.c. supporters.
if the roles were reversed and she was ahead in the del count, you'd scream for him to drop out. you use fl and mi as your cause celebre; however, you forget she agreed to the rules beforehand and now she's behind, they should be counted. how is that not hypocriscy? you then blame him for mi not getting a recount despite the mi court saying its improbable and i think it was deemed unconstitutional (i may be wrong).
you say we are blind followers but your behaviors i think illustrate that point much better than ours.
Posted by anthony at May 24, 2008 04:40 PMAll said, this has been an awful week on the Democratic stage. A week to forget.
However, it may be a very appropriate time to remember (or read for the first time) some excerpts from Teddy's 1968 eulogy for his brother Bobby and reflect on what it means for our lives:
"It is a revolutionary world we live in, and this generation at home and around the world has had thrust upon it a greater burden of responsibility than any generation that has ever lived. Some believe there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills. Yet many of the world's great movements, of thought and action, have flowed from the work of a single man...
Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world that yields most painfully to change. And I believe that in this generation those with the courage to enter the moral conflict will find themselves with companions in every corner of the globe...
All of us will ultimately be judged, and as the years pass we will surely judge ourselves on the effort we have contributed to building a new world society and the extent to which our ideals and goals have shaped that event"
It was a stupid thing to say. No one should use assassination, Hitler and the Nazis, or 9/11 as an analogy to anything. You can't talk about those things dispassionately, or without leaving yourself open to charges of exploitation or advocating same.
And, besides all that, it was a terrible analogy. In 1992 and in 1968 the California primary was in June. This year it was in February on Super Tuesday -- a full four months earlier. The race is mathematically over.
She may have been a better president, but she hired an inferior staff and had an inferior game plan. She didn't win on Super Tuesday, and Obama won it in the weeks that followed.
Personally, I'd like to move on to the general election.
Posted by truth at May 24, 2008 06:33 PMThe update to this post seems to be nutpicking. Clinton's behavior hardly needs to be interpreted as the intentional promotion of evil or even as wishing evil upon Obama. I saw no such indication myself. That doesn't mean what she said had nothing to do with Obama. She is in the bizarre circumstance where she insists she is trying to win the nomination while the only way to get there is through a catastrophe occurring to Obama. That is a very delicate (and in my view untenable) way to run a campaign.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at May 24, 2008 07:25 PMThank you for being a shining beacon of reason, Turkana. I too am disappointed in my brother and sister bloggers. Passion without reason is the reason the rat fucking republicans are in power now. Yes we must know our opponents strategy's, but too many of us have emulated the republicans this season. I don't know kaleidescope, but I was just over at the Firedoglake, and over half the responses sure sound vituperative to me!! I was a member of the great orange one until the insanity struck. Both BO (a great way to describe Mr. Obama for all us who remember early deodorant commercials) , and Mrs. Clinton would make fine Presidents. I want to see the race continue up to the Convention if need be. I see too much intemperance of youth driving so much of this discussion. Plus a substandard study of History, (to get all authoritarian on some of you), gives rise to some of the more outlandish statements about previous election contest. Like Pogo said " we has met the enemy an he is us" This is just a long thank you to you Turkana.
Posted by Larkinsjapn at May 24, 2008 11:15 PMClinton based weeks and weeks of TV advertising on a single sentence that Obama apologized for. She's incapable of a real apology, and if I've ever seen a person deserving of feeling the consequences of the Golden Rule it is Clinton.
Now let's lets watch the candidate of the hard-working people (you know: the white people) use this to convince her supporters she is oh-so-much the victim and go back to trying to kneecap the actual party nominee in Michigan and Florida. When she isn't trying to convince her supporters that she "really won" and had the nomination stolen from her. This woman deserves nothing but contempt.
Posted by Marc at May 25, 2008 06:00 AMsomeon up above mentioned dim lights..how apropos when considering obama supporters..pretty much makes talking to them somewhat of an adventure in futility..turkana..great post and shame on all of them for the way they interpreted hillary's comments on rfk...it says an awful lot about them..this new democratic party of obamamites is truly something to behold..a good portion of them that i've spoken with know absolutely nothing about barack obama other then he is black..and that he is going to change things..sounds good to me..if barack obama is the nominee..he will lose to john mccain...and in particular that one little point is something that the obama people don't even consider a possiblity..hillary clinton will finish the primary season with the popular vote ..having won every major state that dems need in november..obama's numbers in many area's of the country's working class to not bode well for barack obama in november..their answer to that is that ..it will change...i think not.....republicans are salivating at the thought of running against obama..with very real reasons..
Posted by dennis at May 25, 2008 06:27 AMThank you Turkana for posting this.
Amen to what you said.
I think a lot of the Obamabots are basically emotionally immature adults, who think whatever they say should be accepted. "Talk to the Hand!" type of responses. And then they have coniption fits or temper tantrums (which the anonymity of the blog postings allow to have full voice with) when the reality of the situation doesn't go their way. So they do the things you see in the comments and blogs.
In my view, scratch an Obama supporter, find a Republican. They certainly behave as if they are supporters of Tom Delay. (I have stated this before--some of the Democrats out there thought I was engaging in hyperbole. No, I wasn't.)
The shrillosphere liberal blogs that are just distorting the hell out of everything (which is derived from "Talk to the Hand!" attitude, in my opinion) have as their source those reactions/attitudes that may work in the Barbershop or the Hair Styling Salon, or "Out with the Girls" or wherever. But those exhibited behaviorial patterns smack of a lack of maturity, and a lack of foresight, and a lack of accumulated wisdom. (Which is why a lot of college students are and have voted for Obama. They have zero accumulated wisdom, in my view.)
The Obamabots don't really care if Obama wins in the Autumn. They are making their political statement now. They are basically engaging in something akin to the OJ Simpson trial jury nullification activity--"We don't care if the Afro-American being examined is what he says he is or not--we are going to let you know how dissastisfied we are with the White Establishment, and the failure of this Government to deal with our issues, our problems, our concerns...."--and they will "Burn Down" the Democratic Party's House to do it.
This isn't Hillary's supporters doing this. This is Obama's Borgs doing this.
This race is far from over. The misogynists in the Democratic Party Hierarchy know this. But they will attempt to slash and burn anyway. And keep attempting to pressure Hillary to drop out.
And then the Old Men will be on their way to defeat in November. Once again.
You would think that John Kerry would have the insight about all of this, and speak out to his fellows on the DNC. But apparently political expediency mutes his ability to think.
But it may be, like Mr. McLaughlin said on his latest Friday installment of the McLaughlin Group: She may "pull the rabbit out of the hat" at the Convention.
I will wait and see if that happens.
But as time moves on, so does the ticking time bomb of Sinclair....
Tick...Tick....Tick....
The Chicago PD don't move fast, but they do move in a thorough manner.
And for those of you who wish to lump the Sinclair issue with Aliens from space or something, let me tell you this.
There is a lot more substance to the Sinclair claims, than what has been published in the tabloids. That is what appears to be what is going on, at this juncture.
Posted by Troubled American at May 25, 2008 07:57 AMTroubled American surely does seem troubled... as in you sound like you need some counseling.
For the record, since Turkana waved the RFK, Jr., flag as if we should all stand down, it is important to note this story (http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008/news/nationalnews/kennedys_feel_bobby_socked_112469.htm) which indicates that apparently many in the RFK clan (and Kennedy family, more generally) are not happy at all about Hillary's comments. Again, of course, we need to remember that RFK, Jr., is going to take the high road: he supports the Clinton campaign, has worked as a surrogate, and is interested in party unity now that this is all but over. This is politics and he gets it. So, he is saying "the right thing" publicly. Who knows what he personally thinks privately, but apparently others are not happy at all with Hillary's macabre reference. Just wanted to complicate the factual record a bit...
OK, Hillary fans, have at it.
Posted by Patrick at May 25, 2008 09:12 AMTurkana - I agree with much of the substance of your post, but the sarcasm of the title doesn't strike me as helpful. The people it is directed at won't care - will even be amused - while those in the middle may well find it snide.
Posted by rilkefan at May 25, 2008 03:34 PMBoo-hoo. Moi, for one, am so terribly afeared of snideness.
Yes, that's the last thing I would want to do.
I'd much prefer to watch the other side revel in vitriol. Adn do nothing. Eh?
Posted by No Blood for Hubris at May 25, 2008 08:48 PMYou were lucky to be without electricity and miss all the drama...the Hillary Argus Leader story was pack and gottcha journalism running rampant. The press so want Hillary out...not going to happen. If the Argus Leader Editor and RFK, JR. says her comments were relating to a time line for staying in the race, let it die. Ann S.
Posted by at May 26, 2008 05:15 AMOne's reaction to Hillary's RFK reference is a perfect litmus test to determine if their hatred of Hillary has overcome their ability to form rational thought.
Posted by Dazir at May 26, 2008 09:48 AMWell though all the oyher blogs lie and are grinding axes here at the left coaster they are always fair, balanced and honest.
Posted by tenacitus at May 26, 2008 07:14 PM