as far as the trials go...
"nothing to see here, move along folks..."
they will redact, obfuscate, and hide all unsavory facts from the media. the nation of we don't torture just got poked in the eyes by its own lying, devious, 'experienced,' repub fcukups...
i so hope they get tried for war crimes. taking a nation to war based on the admins propaganda, lies, and slander reaches the threshold of high crimes in my book.
question for all you lawyerly types. can an ex-president and vice president, if investigated and convicted of what was stated, be held accountable, especially if the "national secrets," meme or ironically, the 5th amendment gets invoked?
Posted by anthony at June 6, 2008 02:01 AMI don't see how a former President or Vice President or other official can invoke the State Secrets privilege at a war crimes trial -- I believe only the Government can do that.
Defendants of this type of course will always attempt to "greymail" the Government by claiming that disclosure of classified information is essential to their defense.
I am extremely skeptical about how much of the so-called classified information relating to the mistreatment of prisoners has any real bearing on the national security of the United States, other than the damage to our reputation if disclosed. The information that is classified today can readily be declassified when a new Administration takes office. The United States courts have full jurisdiction to try officials of the Bush administration for war crimes. We could restore our reputation, at least in part, if we were to bring charges against those who have violated the war crimes statutes duly enacted by our own Congress.
I don't think it will happen. It will be interesting to see, however, if Bush pardons Cheney before he leaves office.
Posted by HenryFTP at June 6, 2008 03:20 AMDoes Bush think this is going to help McCain and the Republicans in an election year? The fact that none of these guys is Iraqi just re-emphasizes the pointlessness of the Iraq War.
Posted by bob h at June 6, 2008 03:24 AMSay it ain't so, Joe! The Butch Administration dishonest? Lying? Hiding things? I'm shocked! And I thought we were making such good progress in Iraq. like Johnny says.
On the theme of our international reputation as dispenser of (rough?) justice, According to Patrick Cockburn in an article in the Friday Independent:
The US is holding hostage some $50bn (£25bn) of Iraq's money in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to pressure the Iraqi government into signing an agreement seen by many Iraqis as prolonging the US occupation indefinitely, according to information leaked to The Independent.
Iraq's foreign reserves are currently protected by a presidential order giving them immunity from judicial attachment but the US side in the talks has suggested that if the UN mandate, under which the money is held, lapses and is not replaced by the new agreement, then Iraq's funds would lose this immunity. The cost to Iraq of this happening would be the immediate loss of $20bn.
This means that Iraq is still considered a threat to international security and stability under Chapter Seven of the UN charter. The US negotiators say the price of Iraq escaping Chapter Seven is to sign up to a new "strategic alliance" with the United States.
The US had previously denied it wanted permanent bases in Iraq, but American negotiators argue that so long as there is an Iraqi perimeter fence, even if it is manned by only one Iraqi soldier, around a US installation, then Iraq and not the US is in charge.
Iraqi officials say that, last year, they wanted to diversify their holdings out of the dollar, as it depreciated, into other assets, such as the euro, more likely to hold their value. This was vetoed by the US Treasury because American officials feared it would show lack of confidence in the dollar.
Iraqi officials say the consequence of the American action was to lose Iraq the equivalent of $5bn.
Perhaps, if we finally have a leader who can raise the collective Dem leadership in the Congress all the way up to the phylum Chordata, they can FINALLY get around to doing something about this grotesquely illegal and literally STUPID process by which Shooter and the Cowboy get their way and the rest of the world gets a big FU.
As Juan Cole points out,
There were large demonstrations against the security agreement, barely covered by the US press, last Friday, and Iraqi religious and political leaders are coalescing against it. Postcolonial states of the Arab world, which only attained real independence from Britain and France with great difficulty and in living memory, are touchy about being seen as kowtowing to imperial demands. The Shah's government was overthrown in 1979 by huge crowds and a wide cross section of the public precisely on these grounds.
But Hey! There are only 228 days left!
Posted by DeminNewJ at June 6, 2008 03:40 AMGates ousted the Air Force's top military and civilian leaders yesterday, holding them to account in a historic Pentagon shake-up after embarrassing nuclear mix-ups.
Gates forced Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne and Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Moseley to step down. Gates said the ousted officials failed to ensure the security of sensitive materials.
Gates said his decision was based mainly on the damning conclusions of an internal report on the mistaken shipment to Taiwan of four Air Force electrical fuses for ballistic missile warheads. And he linked the underlying causes of that slip-up to another startling incident: the flight last August of a B-52 bomber that was mistakenly armed with six nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.
Gates has asked James Schlesinger to lead a task force that will recommend ways to ensure that the highest levels of accountability and control are maintained in Air Force handling of nuclear weapons.
"Gates focus on accountability is essential and had been absent from the office of the secretary of defense for too long," said Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "The safety and security of America nuclear weapons must receive the highest priority, just as it must in other countries."
Well, call me crazy, but I thought "the safety and security of America's nuclear weapons was a high priority. Dang, wrong again.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/air-force-chiefs-ousted-over-gaffes/20080605144509990001
With our wonderful investigative journalists, I'm sure we will find out the truth about the harsh interrogation techniques used on these men (tongue in cheek).
Classified information relating to the mistreatment of prisoners has no bearing on the national security of the United States. However, it does have bearing on our reputation, which is laughable, and the lengths to which this Administration has gone to "keep us safe."
I wonder if Bush get videos of the torture to help him sleep at night.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 6, 2008 05:08 AM
It's all the inevitable result of electing a monumentally ignorant coward and liar as President.
Posted by RAM at June 6, 2008 06:45 AMAnd Democrats trying to do it again this year. Lets leave the presidency to people who have served the public well...Peace Corp included. Thanks for the endorsement RAM, Senator McCain thanks you also.
Posted by peter at June 6, 2008 07:32 AM"It's all the inevitable result of electing a monumentally ignorant coward and liar as President."
He was not elected, he was appointed. He was also perfect for what Cheney & Company had in mind for us.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 6, 2008 07:45 AMBeen to the Zoo lately Judith...your city has such a nice one...shame the big cat exhibit is closed right now.
He is perfect for what the world needed these last seven years.
Posted by peter at June 6, 2008 08:09 AMHa-ha, Bushco wildy spinning the astonishing umemployment jump to 5.5% (greatest single month increase in 33 years!)---it's those darn youth n' teens gettin' out of school!
Yeah, like we've NEVER had that phenomenon occur before in America!
Destruction of US economic demand continues apace, while the prices for necessities continues to rise. The US standard of living will fall, fall, fall. All because of the "conservative" Repubs' reckless, insane, benefit-the-rich economic policies, coupled with the most expensive "war" in US history.
Repubs and conservatives should be torn limb from limb by the hapless white working class fools they have misled and now economically destroyed for the rest of their (now pathetic) lives. Better get into your gated communities, known "conservatives", your presence may not be so delightful to the rubes anymore.....good times ahead---not.
Posted by euzoius at June 6, 2008 08:10 AMThanks for the endorsement RAM, Senator McCain thanks you also.
Posted by peter at June 6, 2008 07:32 AM
Use Depends Overnights petey and then you won't face the embarrassment of these early morning wettings!!
Euz, paultry 50K jobs lost verses prior times when numbers were in the 250K area say in 2001. Big percentage small job loss...
Pessimist...All is lost crowd. Lets pass that Global Warming bill and raise gas prices another 75 cents a gallion...push it to 5 bucks a gallion...Democratic leadersheep...
Posted by peter at June 6, 2008 08:42 AMMary: It should be interesting to see how McC tries to spin this one....he may wish his grasp of economics was a bit stronger... I am quite vexed about Morgan Stanley forecasting oil at $150/bbl by July 4 when the underlying fundamentals of demand are weakening.
Something smells here....this isn't dollar weakening or European Union proposed interest rate increases...this is stealing everything that isn't nailed to the floor before the GOP gets tossed....I wonder if Morgan Stanley were long oil futures calls before putting this out??
Posted by Goyo at June 6, 2008 08:59 AMMy studies indicate that the SP500 will be in the 1600s sometime in 2009. The stock market is having a sale today. Cool. I like buying things at a discount.
Recessions have MILLIONS of job losses. We're not even close. Recessions have two consecutive negative quarters of GDP. We haven't even had one negative quarter.
The unemployment rate remains below historical averages. We've had two bubbles unwind the past 8 years. The tech stock bubble and the real estate bubble. Both created and destroyed by the Federal Reserve.
Higher energy prices have caused folks to send more money to OPEC buying fuel instead of shopping at the malls. This is why inflation is so low.
Higher energy prices are likely to stay as China and India's economies grow.
The US imports 12 million barrels of oil (out of 20 million) a day. If you'd like to help, buy a hybrid. Double your MPG. If everyone doubled their MPG (ie, reduced their fuel consumption), we'd quit sending money to OPEC. Imagine the impact on supply-demand if everyone who could did some combination of the following: bought a hybrid, used mass transit/carpooled, telework, and went from a 5-8s work schedule to a 4-10s work schedule.
Of course, we also have to ramp up the nuclear power plants to quit the coal habit in order to clean up the air.
We could also use coal liquefaction to create synthetic gasoline for cars.
Posted by Muck at June 6, 2008 09:44 AM"The world needs to invest $45 trillion in energy in coming decades, build some 1,400 nuclear power plants and vastly expand wind power in order to halve greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, according to an energy study released Friday."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_iea_climate_change
Posted by Muck at June 6, 2008 10:00 AMMy studies indicate that the SP500 will be in the 1600s sometime in 2009. The stock market is having a sale today. Cool. I like buying things at a discount.
You may want to keep your powder dry there Muckster...a reversal of the macd line comes to mind as the first step...looks like we're going sideways for sometime...btw: a couple of quarters of gdp decline is only one metirc...The National Bureau of Economic Research's (NBER) Business Cycle Dating Committee ultimately decides whether the economy has fallen into a recession, but declining consumer sentiment should key you to the problems beneath the pinnings of the economy.
Won't matter to Republicans tho', cuz their candidate isn't much of an economics kind-o-guy...we can always build more fighter jets and machine guns...that'll really help!!
Posted by Goyo at June 6, 2008 10:10 AMGoyo has the facts on who calls the recessions, muck, not you.
And had a realistic price deflator been used in the past two quarters of GDP "growth" (like we used to use), they both would have been negative. US gub'mint economics statistics (from GDP to inflation) are now being widely seen as false and totally gamed, and foreign investors are starting to figure out that we are an economy based on fraud and misrepresentation by the highest levels. But fake macroeconomic numbers hardly matter where we're going---
As soon as the foreign capital boys won't finanace the BushAmerica Debt Show anymore, the jig is up, Big Time. But I like your thinking on the stock fraudmarket---buy, Muck, buy!
Posted by euzoius at June 6, 2008 10:28 AMThe MACD. LOL. If you follow those crossovers, you'll underperform the SP500 by a LOOOOOONG shot because of getting whipsawed around, tax consequences, and brokerage commissions. By the time the MACD crosses over, you'll miss the bottoms and you'll miss the tops.
Regarding a "recession," I know a lot of websites have popped up with the whole "shadow statistics" conspiracy stuff. But the definition is two negative quarters of GDP. It's simple.
And if we were in a recession, where are the MILLIONS in job losses? Nowhere to be found.
Consumer sentiment is a meaningless indicator as far as the economy or stock market goes. Probably gasoline prices. And energy is only 9% of GDP. A much smaller percentage than 30 years ago.
Despite the real estate, subprime, and gloom and doom in the media, the SP500 hasn't even gone into a bear market. It's just a few percent down from all-time highs. It's had a huge rally since March, and since the stock market predicts the economy out 6-12 months, we're nowhere near a recession now.
Posted by Muck at June 6, 2008 10:56 AMFeel free to load up there Muck.....personally I stay away from catching falling knives....MACD on the $SPX is trending lower..not crossing over...80% of goods and services require petroleum in some form...either as an input (cosmetics for example)or for transportation....I tend to believe Warren Buffet's analysis of the market to yours Muck...
since the stock market predicts the economy out 6-12 months, we're nowhere near a recession now
Duh, today's price action doesn't bode well 6-9 months out...but hey good luck with those spu contracts.
Posted by Goyo at June 6, 2008 12:51 PMWarren Buffet is long stocks, Goyo.
If you like the Oracle of Omaha, you may like to follow the CNBC blog that covers everything Buffet...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/19206666
Posted by Muck at June 6, 2008 03:59 PMAll rise for the kangaroo court
Posted by getaclue at June 6, 2008 06:46 PM"How much of the world will see these trials as anything but show trials, worthy of being put along side Stalin's political trials?"
Why should the world see these trials as anything other than what they actually are?
Posted by Shirin at June 7, 2008 09:51 AMpants pissing peter just loves living in the right-wing moral sewer
Posted by gay veteran at June 7, 2008 04:19 PM