Hey paradox,
Off the ledge with you. The Echelon Program has been running strong since the mid-nineties. If you read The Puzzle Palace you'll know all about the NSA's "Jew Room" where the Brits were given access to spying on American citizens (because it didn't violate the rules for the Brits to spy on Americans) who in turn handed the information back to the NSA.
That's not to say that the Steny Hoyers of the world aren't the scumbags that they are, but I suggest that blaming Obama (who voted against it the last time it was in front of the Senate) is a tad premature and misdirected. Obama is not God and therefore cannot answer all of our prayers at the same time. He's running for President. I'd suggest that you read DownWithTyranny, which has a more mature way of fighting this great sin.
Or you if you insist on blaming Dems in toto then figure out some other way to get out of this other than hiding under a rock. The sky isn't falling. It fell forty-five years ago. Your inability to face that reality is why you're wringing your hands now.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at June 18, 2008 08:07 AM"Or you if you insist on blaming Dems "
If it passes, it is because they let it and support it. If as you say it was over 45 years ago then why is this necessart at all?
Posted by me at June 18, 2008 08:16 AMParadox is correct...the entire failure of the US government is not Bush's fault, not Cheney's fault, not Rove's fault, not Tenet's fault, not DeLay's fault, not the GOP's fault, not the Supreme Court's fault, not the Justice Departments fault, not Harry Reid's fault, not the Corporate Media's fault....no, it is the fault of one Barack Obama, first term senator.
Posted by T2 at June 18, 2008 08:21 AMSorry folks, Obama's a politician, he wants to be Prez. If Obama feels that speaking out on the topic will hurt those chances, he wont do it.
Posted by Radix at June 18, 2008 08:37 AMJust how many betrayals will it take by the Democratic Congressional delegation for progrssives to conclude that the Democrats are no longer defending working-class interests ?
Posted by mmeo at June 18, 2008 09:51 AMwhat's the alternative, mmeo?
Posted by T2 at June 18, 2008 09:57 AMDems'll sure see my money if they pass this travesty: they'll see my money running ads against Steny Hoyer in his district.
Posted by chemoelectric at June 18, 2008 10:46 AMSilence is acceptance.
Obama is being silent. Adjunct prof of Constitutional law, silent. Lead dog of the Democratic Party, silent. Leader of a "movement", silent.
Speculation is Hoyer, and others like Pelosi and Conyers, will get the measure introduced and then vote against it in order to appear consistent with their public personae of opposition.
So do we prefer loud or silient hypocrisy?
Posted by gtash at June 18, 2008 11:28 AMAs I recall, the last time this betrayal was up for a vote Barack Obama did speak out against it. And voted against it. And who didn't vote at all even though she was in town?
My point is that if you are going to blame "Democrats" perhaps you should aim better. Hoyer? Sure. DLCers? You bet. Maybe Jay Rockefeller should stand up now for what is right. Maybe H. Clinton should stand up and speak loudly against this betrayal too. In fact, every Democrat in office should be told that their futures are linked to how they vote.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at June 18, 2008 12:38 PM"me" wrote: "If it passes, it is because they let it and support it. If as you say it was over 45 years ago then why is this necessart at all?"
I didn't say anything was over. Things happen after the sky falls.
Maybe it passes because you let it happen. If you don't understand who controls what you will forever be running from one illusion to the next.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at June 18, 2008 12:46 PMUh Bob, you might wanna take a look at who didn't vote for the FISA bill again.
Posted by Radix at June 18, 2008 08:50 PM