Hmmm... yes, a time to lead, but Obama is not a leader. The leader in this contest was shown the door and we are left with the someone who isn't even "Present" now.
What a shame.
Agreed. This is one Obama supporter who completely agrees with this and is disgusted with the Democrats' sellout on FISA.
Posted by joel dan walls at June 19, 2008 01:03 PMI'm sure that Barack Obama is pragmatic enough to see that it would be a waste of time for him to expend the political capital necessary to stop this bill in the Senate. My guess is that he might change a few minds, but would ultimately be repudiated. Not exactly the type of image you want when you're running a GE campaign. I'm sure if he thought he could stop the bill, he'd already have spoken out in opposition of it.
Posted by JB64 at June 19, 2008 01:11 PMObama is leading - just not in the right direction:
As noted yesterday, Blue Dog Rep. John Barrow of Georgia has been one of the most enthusiastic enablers of the radical and lawless policies of the Bush administration. When running for re-election, he ran ads accusing his own party of wanting to "cut and run in Iraq," and was one of the 21 Blue Dogs to send a letter to Nancy Pelosi demanding that they be allowed to vote for the Rockefeller/Cheney Senate bill to give warrantless eavesdropping powers to the President and amnesty to lawbreaking telecoms.
He's helping this guy get reelected over a progressive challenger who is against immunity.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 19, 2008 01:31 PMYou all think the candidate of the Chicago Mob is going to give up spying powers? Ha ha ha!
Posted by gmanedit at June 19, 2008 01:34 PMyes, sure. And I appreciate the strong statements from Hillary Clinton on this matter, also. Don't forget, she actually won the popular vote.
Posted by T2 at June 19, 2008 01:55 PMNFG - Why the hell his he put in this position? What's that about? After our failure to stop this because once again the leadership has ignored us, we pin it on the best shot we've had for a GE win in like forever?
Everything being done with StrangeBedfellows, ActBlue, etc. is right on - BUT it will take time to build this clout.
Now, if there is true political gain for him, OK. But if there is any downside, no way.
The outrage list is off the richter scale. We've got an awfully long ways to go. SO we either help someone who we can work with or we can play brinksmanship everytime and get McCain elected - no thanks.
So let's lean on the folks that can get his back. There'll be plenty of time to work these issues directly AFTER he's President
Posted by wilson at June 19, 2008 02:45 PMI doubt, sadly, that Obama will speak up. He's acting too cautiously now, and there are clearly some very powerful behind-the-scenes VIPs pushing this bill.
But if Obama did speak up and champion the charge against this bill he'd not only solidify the Democratic base behind him, but also the Libertarians and Ron Paul Republicans. NV, NM, CO, OR, WA, and MT would be in the bag for him (possibly AZ too), and probably the whole election as well.
Posted by Anonny at June 19, 2008 02:45 PMThe people who need to say this are Ezra Klein, booman, Oliver Willis and other Obama supporters. For Turkana, BTD, and Suzie to say this is just going to raise peoples hackles over the primary again. Hillary supporters risk making this a partisan (in the small p sense) issue, when really it should be a moral one.
Posted by Soullite at June 19, 2008 02:48 PMDon't forget, she actually won the popular vote.
Just keep saying it. Over and over. And Al Gore claimed he invented the internet. And there really were WMDs in Iraq. Eventually, if you say it often enough, it will become the truth.
Posted by Anonny at June 19, 2008 02:48 PMNFG - Why the hell his he put in this position? What's that about? After our failure to stop this because once again the leadership has ignored us, we pin it on the best shot we've had for a GE win in like forever? . . . .
Now, if there is true political gain for him, OK. But if there is any downside, no way.
Posted by wilson
This is weak. Wilson isn't alone. Lots of folks seem to think that you only fight when you know up front that you'll win. I feel sick.
Posted by Barry at June 19, 2008 03:12 PMHe's not the leader y'all thought...there's always someone doing the heavy lifting for him. He's not very capable on his own...oh, well.
Posted by peter at June 19, 2008 03:20 PMThe Precious (tm) is a pansy. Clinton was the only one who had any balls in the entire field of candidates.
Posted by redneckrepub at June 19, 2008 03:30 PMpp petie as delusional as his hero the chimp....
Posted by headxray at June 19, 2008 03:52 PMsoullite,
dday was an obama supporter, during the primaries.
Posted by Turkana at June 19, 2008 04:11 PMHe's not the leader y'all thought...there's always someone doing the heavy lifting for him. He's not very capable on his own...oh, well.
You're describing bu$h right?
Posted by Seven of Six at June 19, 2008 04:58 PMThe story may NOT be over yet vis-a-vis Obama...
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/19/172928/234/413/538615
The response was somewhat heartening:
"We hear you loud and clear. The staff are literally reviewing the FISA issue as we speak. You'll be hearing from us soon."
Keep the pressure on.
For the record, Obama's m.o. is to fully study an issue before acting. That is a characteristic that should be endorsed. I just hope he comes to the correct conclusion.
"http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/19/172928/234/413/538615
The response was somewhat heartening":
Not really, the deal is greased. I predict Obama will pass on leading.
We will then know for sure he is a card carrying member of the Authoritarian Party like Pelosi and Hoyer.
BTD was/is also an Obama supporter.
Posted by rilkefan at June 19, 2008 05:38 PMNot really, the deal is greased. I predict Obama will pass on leading.
Could be. I'm really bad at predicting these things, so I wouldn't say you are wrong.
OTOH, my cynical side was wondering if the whole thing was contrived to give Obama a chance to "stand up for the rights of the people".
Oh well. We'll soon find out.
Posted by Anonny at June 19, 2008 05:49 PMWhat do you expect from a spineless git. One who is cutting campaign endorsement commercials for Blue Dogs that support this bill. And panders to the crowd while reassuring the rich and powerful that it's just rhetoric. And certainly can flip-flop and pander to the worst elements in our geo-political universe. And firmly believes in 'seperate but equal' as long as it doesn't apply to him directly.
Seriously, can't save this country. And I'm really thinking it's not worth it. We're the biggest fools on the planet.
I agree Obama probably won't do much more than make a speech decrying what a shame it is. He will be emulating Pelosi and others who have danced the same Kabuki dance.
Obama has the nomination and I expect he will begin moving rightward. He has to look more moderate and measured---"Presidential".
Posted by gtash at June 19, 2008 08:20 PMYes it's too bad Hillary was rushed out the door since 'bama supporters are all aflutter about what SHE has to say now...I think she's taking a well-deserved break....and laying low so she isn't accused of stealing boywonder's thunder. Where is it by the way?
Posted by Sharon at June 19, 2008 08:34 PMClintonistas, please. I guess no one here noticed or remembered the dynamic leadership that Clinton showed the last time there was a FISA capitulation. She didn't vote on the bill (even though she was in DC), while Obama showed up and voted against it. I guess it would be too much to expect Clinton to make a public gesture against it now. After all, she's got no time to stand up against it now? Or does her leadership turn off when she loses?
I'd also know what everyone here wants Obama to do or say? "You know that FISA capitulation that I opposed last spring? I'm still opposed to it"? You want him to attack Pelosi and Hoyer publicly before he's nominated? Real courage, and I'm sure that McCain would appreciate it. Everyone in Congress knows that Obama opposes the FISA capitulation. Hoyer, and Pelosi, aren't dumb. They are doing this despite Obama's opposition. That should say how much Democratic leadership has invested in this compromise.
Read the bill. The compromise from the Democratic leadership's perspective is necessary so Pelosi and the others who knew about the illegal spying are not liable. They are making this capitulation so that they don't get prosecuted in the future.
As for blaming Obama, whose power is only potential and not real, come back after he's assumed office. He has voted against the FISA compromise, but right now the people he needs to get elected are the very people who need the compromise so as not to get prosecuted.
Ain't sausage-making ugly!
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at June 19, 2008 08:51 PM"BTD was/is also an Obama supporter."
Like George Bush supports the Constitution.
Posted by Bob In Pacifica at June 19, 2008 08:55 PMI'm sorry, but am I the only one who is very happy that the liar, Hillary Clinton, is done? She lied to us about Florida and Michigan not counting. I hate her for being a liar, and I do not respect her supportors who took part in Hillary's lies.
As far as I am concerned, anybody who lies for Hillary can go vote for McCain in November. We don't need these dishonest people in out party.
Posted by lark at June 20, 2008 02:03 AMLark, give it a rest. We've moved on. Furthermore, we need every vote.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 20, 2008 06:40 AMBob In Pacifica,
Thanks for the reality check.
It doesn't matter what kind of FISA bill they pass. Bush will continue to ignore both constitution and statute as he pleases, and the current Dem congressional leadership won't do jack shit about it.
The unreconstructed Hillary partisans are in permanent denial of reality and too many Obama partisans seem seriously bipolar. Would everyone please just get a grip.
Eye on the ball - a Dem president in January with expanded congressional majorities. This is unfortunately a necessary precursor to anything of value getting done.
Posted by OkieByAccident at June 20, 2008 08:54 PM